So What Country You Want Interpreting the Second Amendment

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Waitone

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This is a clear statement on the nature of the battle for the courts and what is at stake should we lose.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/12/214140.shtml

Justice Kennedy's New Rule of Law

Jim Meyers and Phil Brennan, NewsMax.com
Tuesday, Sept. 13, 2005

Though John Roberts may be on the firing line this week as his Senate hearings begin, it's sitting Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy who is making big court news.

In the Sept. 12 New Yorker, legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin pens a profile of Kennedy, who vigorously defends his use of foreign laws and constitutions to interpret U.S. laws and our Constitution.

Some in Congress believe Kennedy's position – and those of several other Court Justices - is a clear violation of both U.S. law and the Justices' own solemn oath to uphold solely the U.S. Constitution.

So far there has been little speculation as to how chief justice nominee John Roberts might handle one of the most important questions he could face: Does he believe that his judicial decisions should rely strictly on his interpretation of U.S. Constitutional law and American legal precedent, or should he take into account foreign and international laws as well in forming his legal opinions?

The question, if Kennedy's remarks in this week's New Yorker are any indication, is probably the most pressing one that can be asked of Roberts.

New Practice

Kennedy and retiring justice Sandra Day O'Connor, both once considered solid conservative court picks, have veered decidedly leftward in several court rulings by invoking foreign legal precedents. The practice of using foreign laws to make U.S. law is new and novel – and has only come into vogue since the 1990s.

This past May, NewsMax Magazine reported that Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg told a conference that she considers foreign laws, not just U.S. laws and the Constitution, in forming her legal opinions.

Ginsburg's views are not surprising. A Clinton appointee and former ACLU legal counsel, she is viewed as the court's most liberal jurist.

But her views about the use of foreign laws have apparently influenced both O'Connor and Kennedy – and may do the same for Roberts.

Now, the eye-opening article in The New Yorker magazine explores how Justice Anthony Kennedy's passion for foreign laws could change the Court in the years to come.

Toobin writes that over the past two years, Kennedy "has become a leading proponent of one of the most cosmopolitan, and controversial, trends in constitutional law: using foreign and international law as an aid to interpreting the United States Constitution."

"Kennedy's embrace of foreign law may be among the most significant developments on the Court in recent years – the single biggest factor behind his evolution from a reliable conservative into the likely successor to Sandra Day O'Connor as the Court's swing vote."

The use of foreign and international laws in deciding Supreme Court decisions has outraged many present and former policymakers in Washington.

"Relying upon foreign law, particularly international covenants to which the United States is not a party, is an illegitimate source of interpretation for the Constitution," former Reagan administration Attorney General Edwin Meese told NewsMax.

"It is impossible to reconcile foreign customs or opinions of law with the meaning of the Constitution," he added. Meese made clear, however, that he was not commenting on Kennedy's remarks but on the concept of using foreign laws to interpret U.S. laws.

The Essence of Judicial Activism

Meese argues that using foreign laws "is to engage in judicial activism; making policy decisions – which is the province of Congress or state legislatures – rather than interpreting the Constitution itself."

Kennedy, 68, was appointed by President Reagan in 1987 and still toes the conservative line on a number of issues. As the New Yorker points out he continues to oppose racial profiling for affirmative action, supports expansive presidential powers and was a principal author of the majority opinion in Bush v. Gore, the ruling the confirmed George Bush's electoral win in the aftermath of the 2000 election.

But he also wrote the Court's two most important pro-gay rights decisions and has indicated support for Roe v. Wade, stances that conservatives view as a betrayal.

James Dobson, America's most influential evangelical and founder of Focus on the Family has called Kennedy "the most dangerous man in America."

Beginning in the late 1990s, justices began citing sources from outside the U.S. in several cases relating to individual liberties:

# In 1999, Justice Stephen Breyer protested the Court's refusal to hear the appeal of a prisoner who maintained that spending more than two decades on death row constituted cruel and inhumane punishment, and quoted legal opinions from Jamaica, India, Zimbabwe and the European Court of Human Rights.

# Justice Ginsburg cited the United Nations' International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination in an opinion supporting the Court's decision to uphold the affirmative-action program at the University of Michigan Law School.

# In the 2003 decision Lawrence v. Texas, the Court ruled that states could not criminalize sodomy between consenting adult homosexuals, overturning a 17-year precedent on the issue. Kennedy sided with the majority, noting in his opinion that a committee advising the British Parliament in 1957 had recommended the repeal of laws punishing homosexual conduct.

Kennedy also noted that the European Court of Human Rights had ruled that laws against gay sexual activity violated the European Convention on Human Rights.

# In writing an opinion declaring the death penalty unconstitutional for juvenile offenders, Kennedy cited the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

"It is proper that we acknowledge the overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty," Kennedy wrote.

Kennedy's reliance on foreign sources has sparked a vigorous backlash from Justice Antonin Scalia, Toobin writes.

In dissenting opinions in the sodomy and juvenile death penalty cases, Scalia condemned any reference to foreign sources by the Supreme Court.

"The basic premise of the Court's argument – that American law should comport to the laws of the rest of the world – ought to be rejected out of hand," Scalia wrote.

The Salzburg Connection

In August, Rep. Steve King, an Iowa Republican, completed an investigation of the Justices' foreign travel.

"Between 1998 and 2003, the Justices took a total of 93 foreign trips," King told Toobin. "And the implication is that there are at least a couple of Justices, chiefly Kennedy and Breyer, who are more enamored of the ‘enlightenment' of the world than they are bound by our own Constitution."

Kennedy in particular has a passion for foreign cultures and ideas. In the late 1970s he was appointed supervisor of the territorial courts in the South Pacific, and traveled often to Guam, Palau, Saipan, American Samoa, Australia, New Zealand and Japan.

Every summer for the past 15 years, Kennedy and his wife Mary have rented an apartment in Salzburg, Austria, where he has taught a summer program at the local university.

Salzburg is the home of the "Salzburg Seminar" – a legal and political circle formed in 1947 by Harvard graduates to bridge American and Europeans in a "Marshall Plan of the mind." Today, it is focal point for legal minds around the world and nine Supreme Court Justices have made visits to the Seminar. Kennedy is the most active participant among U.S jurists.

Toobin sat in on one of Kennedy's classes in Salzburg this past summer and heard him tell his American students that in addition to the U.S. Constitution, "there is also the constitution with a small ‘c,' the sum total of customs and mores of the community. The closer the big ‘C' and the small ‘c,' the better off you are as a society."

After class, Kennedy had lunch with Richard Goldstone, the former chief war-crimes prosecutor for the United Nations and now a member of the commission investigating the oil-for-food scandal at the U.N.

"Judges check each other out," Kennedy told Toobin later, inferring his profession saw no national bounds. "We're a guild, just like physicians or military people are guilds."

Kennedy believes the use of foreign law by the Supreme Court is an inevitable result of an increasingly interconnected world, according to Toobin.

"It really began with the Holocaust, when international law started to concern itself with how nations treated their own citizens," said Kennedy.

"Country A is concerned with how Country B treats its own citizens. So you had the beginnings of things like the European Court of Human Rights."

‘Contempt for Constitution'

Kennedy's "internationalist" approach to his Supreme Court decisions has sparked criticism from both legal scholars and Capitol Hill.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay complained in an interview: "We've got Justice Kennedy writing decisions based upon international law, not the Constitution of the United States. That's just outrageous. And not only that, he said in session that he does his own research on the Internet. That is just incredibly outrageous."

Rep. Tom Feeney, a Florida Republican, has sponsored a resolution condemning the Court's use of foreign laws.

"The resolution says that it is always and everywhere inappropriate to base decisions regarding the original meaning of the U.S. Constitution on foreign laws, institutions or constitutions," Rep. Feeney told NewsMax in an exclusive interview.

"All you have to do if you use this approach is to line up all 191 countries and see which one agrees with the outcome that fits your personal bias as a judge.

"There's no rhyme or reason to which countries it's appropriate to refer to in this recent trend."

Asked if relying on foreign law could be an impeachable offense, Feeney said: "The first step in my view is for both bodies of Congress to advise the court that they are engaging in misbehavior, which is what the Feeney Resolution does.

Oath to Constitution

But he added: "You take an oath as a judge, just like every president and every congressman, that the supreme law of the land is the United States Constitution. If you are pushing aside the Constitution for foreign laws, in my view you may be violating your oath."

And Mark Levin, a former top Justice Department official and author of the New York Times bestselling book "Men in Black: How the Supreme Court Is Destroying America," told NewsMax that justices who rely on foreign law "don't explain when it's appropriate, which foreign law should be invoked, or how using foreign law can help interpret the U.S. Constitution.

"Any justice who approaches their role in this way is declaring his or her contempt for the Constitution, the rule of law, and the American people.

"I strongly endorse Rep. Feeney's effort.
 
I think we should take the Islamic interpretation and flog and stone to death any judge that thinks laws from any other country are supreme over the Constitution.
 
Seems to me to be a weak minded judge that cannot see that the Constitution is the rock this country was and is built on. (Pardon my proposition) Maybe he is just ascared to make a decision using his own mind.

If they go to other countries for advice, what then is the purpose of the Constitution?

Individual liberties is the Bill of Rights.

The Constitution is the Rock of Gibraltor for this USofA, it is not easily changed, bent folded or otherwise mutilated, thats why Constitutional amendements are so difficult to achieve. It is the rules for government to live by, like the Ten Commandments are the moral rules to live by. Together they made our country into what it is today.

Now the activist judges, rather than read the plain english and interpret, go to european countries that have groundings in medieval kings and queendoms where freedom was never a right but rights granted to the serfs, and seek guidance.

This international interpretation of our Constitution type judicialism ought to spark more than just criticism, there ought to be a national uproar, but no, we don't teach the Constitution any more. Or states rights, sovereignty, independance and self reliance.

It's a odd the NRA-ILA don't voice an opinion when the judges do something this absurd. This attitude and mindset would seem to me to be a root cause of a lot of our headaches.

Time for morning coffee, then I can think clearer.

Vick
 
This is more of that 1960's crap thinking. The mindset will only die away when they start dying off.

Using foreign law and not the Constitution. The man has no idea what it means to be an American. period. Where is the Congress on this issue??? Where is the checks and balances? Or is that concept old and out of date too.
 
Liberty

Meanwhile, on the tube, we are treated to the bloviations of Swamp Thing--aka Ted Kennedy--on "Equality." Equality is the new codeword for Socialism, of course. For decades now we've been having a tug of war between Equalilty and Liberty, Liberty--meaning the right to be left the hell alone and "discriminate" to your heart's content on what is yours--being, in the end, what this nation really is all about. Let's hope our side has the stronger pull. Equality under the law is a fine principle, but Nature isn't about equality. Where in Nature are there any two things that are identical? No, that concept emanates from the sophisticated brains of social engineers and academics with too many degrees and grants.
 
Some in Congress believe Kennedy's position – and those of several other Court Justices - is a clear violation of both U.S. law and the Justices' own solemn oath to uphold solely the U.S. Constitution.

Of course -- these judges are fore-sworn when they start down this path. In a sane and rational country we would be tossing these creatures out of office. But the U.S. is no longer either sane or rational.
 
So, can we use foreign law in our defense? Like how about in Saudi Arabia, where they cut peoples hands off when they steal? Can I cut some kids hands off for stealing a pack of gum? Can I quote their law about that, and then quote any of his judgements using the same idea, to show that apparently it is valid?
 
Perhaps it would be a good idea to write a polite letter to the members of SCOTUS, emphasizing the fact that as an American, it would be profitable for each member of the court to read the first few paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence. Thereby they would be reminded of the concept illuminated there regarding the desire to withdraw or separate from the rest of the world with respect to our ideals and purposes.

For any of them to consider what the rest of the world thinks or does, has no bearing upon the exclamation and fortification of the high ideals of the D of I, The Constitution and B of R. Those ideals are what have set us apart and impelled this young nation of ours into modern times.

They should be reminded that whatever our warts, the repair of which should be based upon our ideals founded upon the principals found in those documents.

To do otherwise is an insult to the founders and the sacrifices of our forebearers as well as a betrayal of their oath of office. Their function is to not find a better way, but to mitigate our differences using the framework we have. If things need changing, then use the methodology described that allows change.
 
This issue - of Supreme Court Justices ignoring the Constitution and referring to other countries' laws - gets me as angry as the gun confiscation videos we saw in New Orleans.

I honestly do not understand how some of these justices could have passed the bar, let alone sat on the bench for years, to be nominated to be a Supreme Court Justice. The fact that they have sat on other courts insinuates that our legal system is flooded with similar justices and lawyers...a very ominous scenario.

One last thing; I have noticed in the present confirmation hearings that the same people that wish to take away our right to keep and bear arms are using "frredom" and "liberty" in their accusations. For example, today Durbin asked Roberts if he would "restrict freedom". How in the world can Durbin, who has supported some of the most anti-freedom legisaltion in Congress, ask such a question with a straight face? Such language is right out of Orwell...
 
Freedom to the liberals means getting 20 abortions on tax payer money and getting welfare checks for life and free college education and free medical checkups and getting bonuses because your skin is a darker color and not having to go to jail no matter what crime you commit and outlawing all private ownership of property and stealing things from people for the "common good".

Nevermind those things like life, liberty, property, practicing religion wherever you want, owning arms, not towing the DNC line. Those aren't real explicitly protected rights, like abortion and gay marraige are. /sarcasm
 
Does it have to be a real country? If we are going to completely disregard the constitution, why constrain ourselves to reality? Let the imaginations of the justices run wild and transport us to magical places!</levar burton>

Can I use the Kzinti interpretation of the 2nd amendment? Does Mordor count as a country? How about the outer planes of DnD?
 
Let there be no doubt...

... That many in the "blue states" would actually CHEER Supreme Court decisions grounded in European legal precedents.

And that is not just outrageous. It's sad.

Because many here can foresee certain court decisions arising from this legal philosophy which may not be enforceable. Why? Because they'll beget wide civil disobedience... followed by martial law to enforce them. And the NEXT Civil War.

Does New Orleans 9/05 style Gun confiscation (*For The Common Good*) come to mind, folks?

I urge all 2-A champions here to immediately write/email your U.S. senators (even if they're not on the Judiciary committee) and politely demand that THEY ask present Judiciary committee senators to place questions re THIS issue ahead of blathering on about abortion, etcetera. Why? Because any SCOTUS judge who sides with Justice Kennedy and his Euro-legal mindset is a 95% probable opponent of an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT (vs. Collective Right) interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Let's make this issue OUR Litmus Test for Judge Roberts (though he's a slam-dunk) and, more importantly, the NEXT nominee (i.e, O'Connor's replacement).

"We're going to have to take some things from you for the common good."
-- Hillary Clinton @ a San Fransisco, CA Dem-party fund-raiser, April 2004
 
Some in Congress believe Kennedy's position – and those of several other Court Justices - is a clear violation of both U.S. law and the Justices' own solemn oath to uphold solely the U.S. Constitution.

Then do something about it for crying out loud.

I guarantee the first public servant that is hung in the square for treason will quell this way of thinking.

But since our members of congress have been known to do the same it's like the looting cops in N.O.L.A., do you really think they will arrest looters when they are commiting the same crimes?
 
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