SOG weapons (your picks)

[PaulKersey3]

I recently read about how SOG units doing black ops missions in Viet Nam, Laos and Cambodia were free to choose non-standard issue weapons and gear to go with them into the bush. Which weapons would you, (or for the guys that were there did you) bring with you into jungle combat? Let's make the cutoff year 1970 to give it accuracy. Thanks


Side note: From what I read, aside from CARs, SOG guys liked drum fed RPKs with cut down barrels. One guy was a WW2 vet who liked to carry the Nazi MP40. There was even another guy who was said to carry a Gyrojet rocket pistol!

 

[jeepnik]

A chopped M14 ala Springfield Scout/Squad. Alot of what SOG did was sneak and peek. The idea was to avoid firefights. But I like the idea of hitting with something a bit more "energetic" than 5.56 or subgun round.

 

[fpgt72]

My uncle was a Green Beret and was in Vietnam, as I understand it he was in Vietnam before he was shipped to germany...he was in germany in 1964, so that would put him in vietnam in 62-63? He never did talk much about it. But I do know he had an M2 carbine and he did not like it very much but did carry an AK47 that he liked a great deal.

I know he was wounded, I saw the scars, but would never talk about being over there....but when he held my M1 carbing he got a little white...wish I knew more he as passed away about 2 or so years ago....I miss him a lot.

 

[TenMillimaster]

Remington 870 with the Special Operations Weapon mod with the 20 round magazines.
HK54, with an endcap, for a sidearm, in a thigh rig. (the EARLY mp5 model)
A couple of V40 mini grenades.

A Stoner 63 back at base (configured as a LMG) and a Smith and Wesson MK22 MOD0 as a side arm.

Of course I'm not Spec ops or anything so all of my choices are probably dumb. But it's a game, right?

 

[Dr.Rob]

Most of what was carried was 'sterile' ie couldn't be made in the USA so if you were captured or killed your equipment couldn't be traced to the USA. Some went so far as to wear clothing and boots not made in the USA. All radios etc had the inspection plates removed and any idenifying marks obliterated.

This is of course dubious as what other anglo would be running around in the boonies in that part of the world armed to the teeth. Supposedly this was the #1 market for the Swedish K submachinegun outside Sweden.

Gyrojets got limited military testing but I can't imagine anyone 'preferred' one.

Most likely found in theater: surplus WW2 euipment from Japan, USA, France, Chicom weapons.

 

[Rio Laxas]

A Randall Model 14 knife, a Rolex, a Browning High Power, and close air support!

My understanding is that the CAR-15 and Browning HP were the norm for recon teams. Suppressed Swedish Ks (Carl Gustaf M/45) and grease guns were also common.

To read about Jerry Shriver, a hero of SOG:

http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/30.PDF

 

[antiquus]

I know a guy who was 'busy' in Viet Nam - both Viet Nams - and Cambodia, and Laos, and ....farther North.... Awesome guy, in his 70's now, trying to get him to talk about it is like pulling teeth - not for security concerns but because he hates thinking about it, thinks the whole thing was a fiasco and unnecessary. But he's very proud of getting his units in and out on 9 missions and never losing a guy or getting into a firefight - he wasn't supposed to. Not easy going the 'wrong way' on the Ho Chi Min trail.

But when you think about the responsibility placed on a SpecOps Sgt, it's amazing - seems like it should be a general running things.

Anyway, after a little prying I got out of him he carried a M14 and a 1911, and didn't want anything else.

 

[PaulKersey3]

Great article almostfree! That's actually from one of the books I read about SOG. Helluva book, I highly recommend. From what I read there and elsewhere, the cut down, drum fed RPK was desirable because in thick jungle and bamboo it threw a lot of lead and even more splinters. Gyrojets seem like they were impractical, but it's said that posthumous MOH winner George Sisler used one in a last stand before he was overrun by enemy forces. Some SOG testimonials on the Gyrojet are here:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?38550-Gyrojet-pistol-issued-to-SOG-in-Vietnam

 

[PaulKersey3]

I think those are great choices. Roger that on the V golf ball grenades. SOG men would carry dozens along with small "toe popper" mines. An 870 with 20 mixed rounds of buck and flechettes would have great effect! I'm thinking I'd rock a 97 trench gun with bayonet. If not that, maybe a BAR SBR "Jungle Model". The huge boom from an SBR 30-06 with those old black tip AP rounds would be a great force multipler in that hit and run theater. Side arm would be a couple different ones "Mad Dog" style, 1911, HP, maybe a 1917 wheel gun.

 

[Gunnerboy]

hmm well id say a mg42 that and a stoner 63a or maybe a nice little rem 870 with flechettes

 

[parsimonious_instead]

For a small unit "stealth" mission it's probably not a bad idea to equip the men with the same weapons as the enemy. If the mission is executed well with nothing left behind but shell casings, it'll leave 'em scratching their heads, not knowing exactly who was there or what happened.

 

[Lex Luthier]

There is a book titled "Point Man" by a Navy Seal who had a shotgun with a duck bill barrel. The story is that he took out a whole platoon of NVA by sweeping them with 2' x 8' swaths of shot.

 

[mmitch]

I was partial to the Swedish "K", in that specified time period or a little later.

Mike

 

[Ala Dan]

Smith & Wesson model 39 9mm; with threaded barrel, for silencing sentry's
and guard dog's~!

 

[BIGBANG]

probably dual m60's like rambo, hip firing them and hitting everyone with head shots, haha

no I'd take an ak so that way I'd leave the same ammo casings and my sidearm would be a 1911, but I think dr. rob hit it on the head, why else would a non oriental person be in the jungle except because their a soldier, you would stick out like a sore thumb

 

[mortablunt]

SVT-40, UZI, M1911A1, and Katar, but that would be at least a good 40 pounds of arms without even mentioning ammo.

I'd take the AK, a Makarov, and the Katar.

 

[hso]

Ak
fn p35
v40

 

[critter]

I have a friend who was in Viet Nam. He carried an M 16 as did most of his buddies. He was an LRRP guy.

It seems, from what he said, that they were pretty free to 'requisition' whatever they deemed they needed. They carried LOTS of ammo and each and every one of them carried quite a supply of C-4 and used it liberally.

Their best asset (as in most used/most useful) was air support from 'Snoopy'. That, too, was liberally applied as was air power from 'fast movers'.

He saw a lot over there and got the unwanted results of operating in agent orange territory. Health problems are very hard on him due to that.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I stand corrected on the Gyrojet.. though that soldier's 'review' left me wondering why he carried it.

 

[TenMillimaster]

I think those are great choices. Roger that on the V golf ball grenades. SOG men would carry dozens along with small "toe popper" mines. An 870 with 20 mixed rounds of buck and flechettes would have great effect! I'm thinking I'd rock a 97 trench gun with bayonet. If not that, maybe a BAR SBR "Jungle Model". The huge boom from an SBR 30-06 with those old black tip AP rounds would be a great force multipler in that hit and run theater. Side arm would be a couple different ones "Mad Dog" style, 1911, HP, maybe a 1917 wheel gun.

Don't forget that this 870 is modified for full-auto. 200RPM makes for about... 3 shells a second? And if shooting #4 buck as some SEALs preferred, that makes for 81 .24 caliber pellets in the air. A book on SEALs weapons I used to have compared this shotgun to a SAW.

 

[magenta]

Back in 1962 I carried a model 37 Ithaca with a shortened barrel and butt stock. It worked real well carried on my web gear with sling swivels as I was a radio man. The only problem was getting all brass shot shells. The shot shells of that era were made of paper and they would swell from the moisture and humidity.
I later traded it to my CIA handler for a Uzi that had real wood pistol grips, It worked much better.
Many in my squad liked the Swedish K or the MAT 49. We never had any problems with any of them.
By the way, we all used Korean tiger fatigues died black and then rinsed. They were almost invisable in the jungle.

 

[dogtown tom]

TenMillimaster Don't forget that this 870 is modified for full-auto. 200RPM makes for about... 3 shells a second? And if shooting #4 buck as some SEALs preferred, that makes for 81 .24 caliber pellets in the air. A book on SEALs weapons I used to have compared this shotgun to a SAW.

Sure it was
It never made it past experimental.

I'd take an AK and a BHP.

 

[Carter]

shot shells of that era were made of paper and they would swell from the moisture and humidity.

Paper shot shells in the 60s?

 

[GuysModel94]

Know some of the SEAL team guys bought Browning Auto 5's thru the Navy Exchange in Japan. Cut the barrels down, trimmed the stocks back to grip and pull the plugs out. 00 buckshot was still in the inventory at the time.

 

[Strykervet]

This is what a lot of people don't get... You don't pick the weapons that are cool or you like, you pick mission specific items that will have a better chance at success and survival.

I was in a unit that allowed this to a point (had to fire NATO ammo). You had to have commander approval and a reason to bring it. Most guys took a 9mm pistol, some SDM's and snipers took M14 and AR10 style rifles, my buddy took a Whitefeather --doesn't look as nice as did now either, all worn and with notches in the buttstock.

Those SOG guys weren't stupid, they weren't taking Gyrojets because they were cool, they might have taken one because it fit a specific mission. But as a general tool, I understand the Stoner was very popular because it was so modular.

The full auto shotgun was an 1100 with a thick barrel I think, and #4buck was the round. They'd empty the whole thing into an ambush, or use them on ambushes and were popular with SEALS according to Demolition Dick. I understand the duckbill was junk and it wouldn't work with modern shotshells anyway.