Soldiers carrying civilian weapons as secondary armament.

[GRIZ22]

The AK did have a distinctive sound to it. Can't say I can hear the difference now. Special operations people sometimes carried AKS and dressed as VC or NVA as a ruse when deep in Indian country. They stopped doing this by 1969-70 as both sides had M16s by then.

There was also an issue of using captured ammo in Vietnam. There was a program where 7.62x39 rounds were loaded with high explosive (C4 IIRC) and slipped into VC and NVA ammo caches. These generated enough pressure to blow the bolt into the face of the shooter. This was to break confidence of the VC and NVA using Chinese ammo. It was enhanced by somehow disseminating forged Chinese documents which said they knew about some exploding ammo. They told us about this when I arrived in Vietnam in 1968.

Bringing things back from Vietnam was a different story. If it was a legitimate war souvenir no problem. No US made weapons. When I left Vietnam in 1969 they took all E6 and below into a large room where you dumped all your carefully packed baggage. The MPS went through everyone's stuff. They even confiscated BA30s (D cells) someone had in their radio. The MPS did take a few guys in cuffs. For what I don't know.

If you had a legitimate war souvenir like a SKS you carried it on the plane (no ammo allowed) and the stewardess put it away for you.

 

[wilkinsonarms]

However, the most interesting I ever saw wasn't originally a hand gun. It was an M-2 carbine with the barrel shortened and the butt stock cut off behind the pistol grip.

This wasn't some hacksaw job. The barrel was cut and re-crowned. The end of the butt stock was nicely rounded off. It had one accessory. A flashlight taped to the forend. No sights.

Sounds like the M-2 Enforcer by Iver Johnson!

 

[edmo01]

Back in WW-Gulf War #1, I was a pilot in the USAF and we were still being issued the standard "Barney Fife" revolvers. These were 4" S&W model 15s chambered in 38 Special. With 6 rounds of 130 grain FMJ, it wasn't exactly a lot of firepower.

Several of our pilots bought 9mm handguns at the Rod & Gun Club on an air base in Germany and secreted them back into theater. They would carry them while flying and hide them away when back at our base. They picked 2 Sigs and a CZ75.

As far as a risk of being found out by customs on the way home... Sometimes it's good to be aircrew!

Edmo

 

[Nature Boy]

edmo01,

You remind me of a funny story when we deployed. We flew on a chartered commercial aircraft out of Ft Hood and most of our equipment, including weapons were TAT (To Accompany Troops).

Someone forgot to tell the Stews, and the first guy on board was carrying his 240B. The looks of shock, then panic, as they stopped him with the "YOU CAN'T BRING THAT THING ON HERE!" took us 15 minutes to straighten out. The head Stew remained in a freaked out condition the entire flight. Poor lady.

 

[jeepnik]

Sounds like the M-2 Enforcer by Iver Johnson!

Same idea I believe, but the enforcer had a pistol grip, the one I saw had the stock cut off after the pistol grip area of the butt stock. And of course it was capable of full auto.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You remind me of a funny story when we deployed. We flew on a chartered commercial aircraft out of Ft Hood and most of our equipment, including weapons were TAT (To Accompany Troops).

Someone forgot to tell the Stews, and the first guy on board was carrying his 240B. The looks of shock, then panic, as they stopped him with the "YOU CAN'T BRING THAT THING ON HERE!" took us 15 minutes to straighten out. The head Stew remained in a freaked out condition the entire flight. Poor lady.

"Don't quote laws to us! We carry swords!"
Pompey the Great

 

[herrwalther]

Someone forgot to tell the Stews, and the first guy on board was carrying his 240B. The looks of shock, then panic, as they stopped him with the "YOU CAN'T BRING THAT THING ON HERE!" took us 15 minutes to straighten out. The head Stew remained in a freaked out condition the entire flight. Poor lady.

Feel sorry for that guy. All our 240s and SAWs were sent ahead in shipping containers. Only firearms hand carried on board were M4s and M9s.

 

[Nature Boy]

"Your carry on must fit either under the seat or in an overhead bin" was also a rule that was not followed on that flight.

 

[mcole]

vietnam for me. my dad bought and sent to me a s & w mod 28-2, highway patrolman, 4" barrel. could get fill pressure 158 grain, lead swc at the exchange in atsugi, jaoan. the mcpo that ran the gun shop there knew his stuff. when i came back had a hard side samsonite suitecase acquired at the local navy exchange. i cleaned the 28, put it back into its box, packed socks around it so it couldn't move around. no problems all the way back to kansas. then went to east coast. took it with me but did check it into our armory. still have it. won't give it up to anyone.
one of the guys in our group carried, as his extra, one of those .44 mag, ruger carbines. hell of a gun but only 5 rounds in mag if i remember correctly. mcole

 

[bubba in ca]

In the 3 units I was in in Vietnam there were no personal weapons. I had an airforce survival knife until it got confiscated. I briefly had a frag out in the field until it got stolen I saw a helicopter pilot who had an ak for shooting rays basking on the ocean surface, but he didn;t have to enter thru the gate.

We were not allowed knives or frags , not even on combat missions. One time we broke into a (US) ammo dump the night before a patrol and got some frags, but when we got back from the mission we were searched at the gate.

When I was an MP we were not allowed to load our own 45s. We stood at attention while the duty officer inserted a mag into our guns, no round in chamber

I was not as resourceful then as I am now or I would have gone to a hardware store in the ville and bought some throwaway knives.

Some of this drama was due to the large number of black heroin addicts in 2 of the units, but most was just officers and NCOs looking out for number 1.

I did do the paperwork to send home a sks bayonet and some yard woodchopping knives. Anything that looked like a weapon needed war trophy paperwork.

 

[Armybrat]

After the Aleutian Campaign in 1943, my Dad brought home a Nambu Type 84 & its holster. He literally took it off a dead Japanese soldier that someone else had killed. He also brought back two empty Japanese hand grenades - one looked like the US "pineapple", the other a black cylinder.

Returning from France in the late summer of 1945, he brought back two Mauser 98Ks and an FN BAR also in 7.92. He got those from a railroad depot where all kinds of equipment was brought in (from tanks to crates full of Luger pistols), He also brought a couple of German helmets. I used those guns to play Army with all over the neighborhood in St. Louis in the mid 1950s. My grandpa had plugged the BAR breech so it was a legal DEWAT.

We donated it to the military Museum at Camp Mabry (Austin) years ago. They say they still have it in their vault, but have never displayed it. About 25 years ago I had one of the Mausers rebuilt into a .30-06 sporter.

While in France in 1944-45, Dad carried my grandpa's Colt 1903 (.32ACP) as a backup for his service 1911. Being a field grade officer (LTC) undoubtedly eased the way home for all those weapons.

 

[amd6547]

When my father deployed to France in 1944, he brought a 32acp pistol he carried in a pocket throughout the war. It was given to him by a relative.
When he came home, he had no problem bringing it back, and he returned it to the relative.
He did bring home two pistols he picked up...they had papers authorizing them.
Unfortunately, the several German MG'S he had planned to have dewat-ed and bring home were stolen while he recuperated from dysentery.

 

[Musket44]

This forum / thread might be of interest / pertinent to the OP's request:

[/URL]http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/104363-s-w-vietnam.html[/URL]

Response #49 was my input.

 

[jeepnik]

Dad brought back two handguns. P-38, and a beautiful P-08 with holster/butt stock. Both were obtained after hostilities ceased, I don't know the source.

Apparently, it wasn't a really good idea to be captured and have "trophies" on your person. While I can't document whether any retaliation occurred in this situation, my dad was pretty practical guy so...

 

[RX-79G]

During the 1991 Gulf War there weren't enough M9s and no M11s in stock for all the aviation units in the Navy, so they were encouraged to bring their own sidearms.

I found this out because Trader Jon's - an old aviation bar in Pensacola - had picture after picture of pilots and aircrew posing in photos in the desert with their handguns. Glocks, S&W, BHPs, revolvers, you name it. I was in flight school at the time and one of my instructors told me about it.

Another instructor - a Marine Captain - said that he carried his own 1911 on combat flights. At that time ('97), Marines could take their weapons to work and it wasn't a security issue, as it was on Navy bases.

 

[steveracer]

I have only seen a very few non-issued weapons while deployed. I saw a Beretta 85 in an arms room and grabbed it up and stuffed it in an ammo can with a few mags for it and some .380. Kept it around, but it did not return to the US.
I saw a US soldier with a S$W J-frame carried in a paper Dixie cup in his pants pocket. He went straight to the brig.
One Marine I knew and worked with a lot carried a 1911, and it was on his unit's list of weapons, but they only had two of them, and this one was the nicer of the two. NONE of the regular forces carried anything that wasn't SIG or Beretta. In 20 years and seven deployments (4 ship and 3 ground) I have seen ZERO glocks, H&Ks, Walthers, Kimbers, etc in the hands of US personnel deployed.

 

[scbair]

My Dad was in the Artillery in WWII, in Europe. He was issued an M1 carbine, but no sidearm. While passing through France, he encountered a resident with a pistol and some ammo, but no cigarettes, and a deal was reached. Dad said he just flat out was not wandering around a combat zone without a sidearm.

In that era, "war trophies" could be brought home, if the correct paperwork was completed and approved. Dad was told he could bring back the pistol, but no ammo (too many young, excited males on the transport ship, I guess). So, he tossed several boxes of ammo in the river and brought the pistol home.

Fast forward to the late 1960s. I was a youngster, intensely interested in shooting and hunting, reading everything I could, when not in the woods with Dad or an uncle. As Dad was sorting through some papers in his old footlocker, I passed by and spotted the pistol.

Me: "I didn't know you had that!"
Dad: "Yeah, I brought it back at the end of The War." He then explained how he came to own it. "Too bad I couldn't bring back any ammo. It's not made here, so we can't shoot it."
Me (after examining the pistol): If you want to shoot it, we can get some ammo at the hardware store."
Dad: "No, it's marked as chambering some crazy European cartridge."
Me: "Yes, sir. It's chambered for the 7.65 Browning. We call it the .32 Auto."
Dad: (unprintable)

Today, I still have a very nice FN M1910, two mags and the signed military paperwork authorizing Dad to bring the pistol home. It's one of my most treasured possessions, with lots of memories.

 

[drband]

Great story, scbair!

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I agree, that's a good story. It also illustrates one of the constants of warfare - armies can issue as many carbines as they want with the idea that they'll replace pistols, but given half a chance a soldier will always acquire a sidearm.

 

[herrwalther]

Great story scbair! Reminds me of an almost similar instance about a grandfather from one of my exes. He was a Korean war vet, also on an artillery team. He picked up a little pocket gun from a local and carried it through out the war and brought home. On the side of the slide it said "9mm Kurz" so he loaded it up with a magazine of 9mm luger and put it in his kitchen counter where it stayed for some 50 years.

When his grand daughter started dating me, he was glad to have another guy so interested in firearms. He showed me this little Euro pocket gun from the counter. We both wanted to shoot it. We took it out to his back porch which was over the lake. I took about 20 minutes figuring out a basic field strip. The ammo didn't "look right" for the size of the magazine. And thanks to the internet and smartphones I was able to confirm 9mm kurz and luger are not the same round.

 

[ilbob]

my dad was in the navy toward the end of WWII. The crew on his ship was given the opportunity to have either a japanese rifle or a pistol from warehouses under US control. he brought a rifle home. I have it now. never shot it.

My dad's brother brought back a Japanese NCO sword. No scabbard, just the sword. I have it as well. I did not know much about it and someone here actually told me what it was from a picture of it I posted.

There used to be a lot of older guys at the gun club that I would chat with. many were WWII or Korean vets that had many good stories to tell. I was never able to tell which stories were true, but they were still good stories.

 

[kBob]

A guy was taking an NRA firearms safety class with myself and other club instructors. He was a WWII vet and had a bring back. Remarkably it was not taken personally from an SS General Officer, but from a shell crater where passing German troops were told to toss all weapons as units retreated into the American zone to avoid capture by the Russians.

Another instructor allowed him to shoot it and it fired one shot and stopped.

He cleared it and it fired two shots and stopped.

He fired it and it fired two shots again and stopped.

Concerned I strolled over and asked to see the gun.

It was marked for 7.65 so I was about to ask about it when I was informed that he knew it was .32 as a buddy had told him so.

As it happened the magazine was at that point empty so I dropped some ammo from a friends FN Browning 1922 in it and it cycled the whole magazine just fine. Thinking it might have been an issue with say rim lock I ask for his ammo to reload it with. He handed me a box of .32....... .32 S&W.

How the little thing handled the rim at all I am not sure, but I honestly think the issue was the .32 S&W (the original, not Long) simply lacked the power to function the gun.

I traded him out round for round on the ammo and that was (what little is left) and is my only .32 S&W ammo.

-kBob

 

[Tallball]

Several excellent stories!