Some basic cast bullet questions for 38/357 and random Alliant Rant!

[gfanikf]

Now the ammo I want to make is for range blasting purposes.

Now looking at the Lyman book it mentions 38 special cast bullets being sized to .358" diameter
For 357 Magnum it mentions Cast Bullets used being sized to .357" diamaeter.

Now I often see cast bullets being sold as .38/357 either as .357 or .358. I'm confused as which is the one I should buy or is safe to use.

For the record I'm thinking of ordering from Kings (http://www.betterbullets.info/customers/Retail_Aug_2011_KSS.pdf) since I can just do a pickup very easily, but assume I was also looking into Oregon Trail stuff or some of the other cast bullets (flexability and more options is always a plus).

Now....Alliant Rant

Alliant why didn't you figure out Blue Dot didn't work with 125gr or lower 357 before I looked in the Lyman book and bought it and by pure luck saw on their website not to use it!

I originally got Blue Dot for the flexibility in 9mm and 45ACP, but the fact I can't use 125gr or lower bullets kind of stinks as it means spending more for higher weights and less options!:banghead:

Okay I feel better.

 

[ljnowell]

Cast lead should be shot at .358". I have seen several companies that offer it in the .357 diameter, as a "match" bullet. Rule of thumb for lead is .001" over bore diameter so as to ensure gas sealing and low leading.

As far as Blue dot goes, that warning has been out for some years now. Many people still load 125s with it, personally I dont see the point. There are a lot of powders out there that will load light weight and heavy bullets in 357 equally well. I use Alliant 2400 in 357 for all bullet weights and find it to have plenty of power and produce accurate loads.

 

[gfanikf]

Cast lead should be shot at .358". I have seen several companies that offer it in the .357 diameter, as a "match" bullet. Rule of thumb for lead is .001" over bore diameter so as to ensure gas sealing and low leading.

Okay, so if I get .358 I should be gtg? Does that apply to both 38 and 357?

As far as Blue dot goes, that warning has been out for some years now. Many people still load 125s with it, personally I dont see the point. There are a lot of powders out there that will load light weight and heavy bullets in 357 equally well. I use Alliant 2400 in 357 for all bullet weights and find it to have plenty of power and produce accurate loads.

That's not so much the issue as that I have a pound of Blue Dot that I have to use, as saying oops I bought the wrong thing...but I can't return it doesn't work well with my wife. I mean I can still use it, but it's annoying since I can't get the cheaper casts I wanted. Oh well better than already having bought the bullet.

 

[noylj]

Lead bullets are safe up to 0.362".
Lyman and a very few others think that lead bullets sized to the groove diameter of the barrel is sufficient.
Most of the rest of us have found that 0.001" over groove diameter is almost always where things start getting good--with 0.002" over groove diameter sometimes being required.
To determine what diameter bullet to order, slug your barrel so you know what your groove diameter is and order bullets at least 0.001" larger.
Next, for revolvers, the bullets must be at least a very tight slip fit in the cylinder's throats.

 

[gfanikf]

Lead bullets are safe up to 0.362".
Lyman and a very few others think that lead bullets sized to the groove diameter of the barrel is sufficient.
Most of the rest of us have found that 0.001" over groove diameter is almost always where things start getting good--with 0.002" over groove diameter sometimes being required.
To determine what diameter bullet to order, slug your barrel so you know what your groove diameter is and order bullets at least 0.001" larger.
Next, for revolvers, the bullets must be at least a very tight slip fit in the cylinder's throats.

Okay then the next question is how does one slug their barrel? I have a Model 65 S&W.

 

[redneck2]

Uhhhh....the difference between .357 & .358 is literally less than 1/3rd of a human hair, or 1/3rd of the thickness of a sheet of paper. I don't think your gun is gonna know

 

[gfanikf]

Uhhhh....the difference between .357 & .358 is literally less than 1/3rd of a human hair, or 1/3rd of the thickness of a sheet of paper. I don't think your gun is gonna know

Well it's reloading...and guns, sometimes the smallest amounts can matter.

 

[Hungry1]

Okay then the next question is how does one slug their barrel? I have a Model 65 S&W.

Use a piece of well lubed, soft lead and drive it through your barrel. Measure at the widest point and you'll have the barrel diameter.

It can be done with a lead bullet. Take care not to scratch the bore or damage the crown.

Youtube has videos.

Good Luck

 

[cfullgraf]

The general rule of thumb is cast bullets for 38 Special/357 Magnum should be .358" in diameter. Jacketed bullets should be .357" in diameter.

The inside diameter of the barrels for the two are the same, within manufacturing tolerances.

For best accuracy, you should have the bore on your handgun slugged and size cast bullets to .001" over that diameter. This is a bigger issue with older handguns as the bore varied greatly between even guns from the same manufacturer and model.

 

[zxcvbob]

You don't really want to load 125 grain cast bullets in .357 Magnum anyway, unless you load them way down to .38 Special velocities, and you wouldn't do that with Blue Dot powder.

Blue Dot might be OK with 158 grain cast bullets, although I never found a load that I liked with it.

 

[ljnowell]

Uhhhh....the difference between .357 & .358 is literally less than 1/3rd of a human hair, or 1/3rd of the thickness of a sheet of paper. I don't think your gun is gonna know

Sometimes thats all thats needed. I have seen 357 diameter lead bullets lead a S&W 686 and 358s not. If it were .001 bigger, I would agree, but .001 smaller with lead can make all the difference in the world.

 

[blarby]

Cast lead should be shot at .358". I have seen several companies that offer it in the .357 diameter, as a "match" bullet. Rule of thumb for lead is .001" over bore diameter so as to ensure gas sealing and low leading.

Flawless, as usual......

I'd add that some serious experimentation is going to be in order to tune those bullets to your gun.

I'd try at least a couple of different powders until you get just the right mix- and then start over and find another one that does the same.

Dont discount Unique- one of its better purposes is lead bullets in pistol.

 

[rcmodel]

I originally got Blue Dot for the flexibility in 9mm and 45ACP

There is hardly a less suitable powder for .45 ACP then that one right there!

Well, 2400 or H110 maybe.

rc

 

[dragon813gt]

Uhhhh....the difference between .357 & .358 is literally less than 1/3rd of a human hair, or 1/3rd of the thickness of a sheet of paper. I don't think your gun is gonna know

It definitely can make or break it. You have to slug your barrel first. Saying that a .358 bullet will work for a .357 is not always the case. I size to .359 for my Marlin 1894C. It slugs exactly at .3572. It will lead, sort of, w/ bullets at .358. At .359 there is no trace of leading. And I'm not even going to get into a a BHN discussion.


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[PapaG]

Slugging Smith barrels can be a problem...at least for the 5 groove ones....no way without a v block and calculator to get the dia. To throw out another scenario, I once found a security six that shot best with .356 dia bullets. (Lyman 358156, hornady gas check, 13.5 2400 in .357 brass). I often cannot see any practical difference among 356/357/358 for standard velocity 38 specials but do try for groove dia in 357.

 

[ljnowell]

Slugging Smith barrels can be a problem...at least for the 5 groove ones....no way without a v block and calculator to get the dia. To throw out another scenario, I once found a security six that shot best with .356 dia bullets. (Lyman 358156, hornady gas check, 13.5 2400 in .357 brass). I often cannot see any practical difference among 356/357/358 for standard velocity 38 specials but do try for groove dia in 357.

I wish I could say the same. I tried 357 lead in a few and it wasnt great in any of them

 

[Certaindeaf]

You also want your chamber mouths to be the same size or one thousandth larger than the cast bullet.

 

[4895]

BlueDot works great in my 9mm. Similar to PowerPistol and very accurate @ 10 yards.

A friend of mine has been shooting BlueDot in his .357mag with 125 grain bullets for a long time and doesn't see a reason to quit even though I showed him the paperwork from Alliant. Take his advice with a grain of salt, but his loads have always worked just fine in a beefy Ruger revolver. YMMV.

 

[JLDickmon]

I'm with RC on this one.. Blue Dot is a magnum shotgun powder, and not good for much else..