Some High Standard questions

[Topgun]

I have a High Standard E. Hartford factory pistol.

It is superbly accurate. I had a Smith M41 and can not tolerate the slight torquing when it fires. Most don't notice this, but I do.

Anyhow, I use the H-S.

Now....has anyone cracked a H-S frame? Mine is just fine. But see my thread in the Gunsmithing forum:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113188

Also.....I used to access a specialized High Standard forum (think it was run by a Sinclair or something)

They used the website to place pop-ups and all sorts of stuff on computers and I finally quit looking there because it took so long to clean out my spyware after EVERY visit. I complained to them but have not returned.

Does anyone access that site now? Is it now safe?

I have SP2 that may now stop all the junk and also Ad-Aware and Spybot so I ....think..... I'm clean, but that site was FULL of stuff and a real pain.

Is it still the same? Please PM if you have visited it lately. (or post a reply for all)

I'm concerned about this frame cracking issue, but still like the brand. Just want to confirm or know if the use of STANDARD velocity ammo only will work good.

I just got a new 7.25" barrel for mine and it is now shooting even tighter than before.

I love these HS guns, but just wanna know a bit more on the E. Hartford issue. (E. Hartford guns are NOT heat treated frames) The factory also states that the old frames can only be case hardened but not fully heat treated as the alloy lacks the manganese (I think) needed to have it take the treatment.

ANY.....and I do mean ....ANY.....info appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Old Fuff]

No, the frames weren't heat treated, but we are talking about a .22 R.F are we not? The greater problem is that over time and use the recoil spring in the slide will take a set. The easy solution is to replace it once and a while, and stay away from high velocity ammunition.

Can't answer your question about the Internet site because I've never gone there.

 

[Maxer51tx]

I have an HS Sentinel revolver and recently googled a HS site, http://www.tm-techmark.com/jspacek.htm.

I didn't experience any spyware probs. I use an IBook, though.

The site contains a forum, and I'd bet you'd find some answers there.

 

[Topgun]

Old Fuff.....Yep, that's what I have been doing. And it's what Barta reco'd for me to do when he crowned my old barrel and redid the spring and the rounding I caused by FORGETTING to use the "pull slide back and release" drill and reverted to the damaging use of the "slide release."

It's just that the factory guy said they get in 2-3 guns a month and was quite sure that ALL of them would eventually break.

My PERSONAL opinion is that from where they break (just behind the ejector and toward the hammer well) is that someone is dry firing ....and probably with the slide off. THAT looks like it would break it right smart.

And that's sumpin that NO one I know would do.

Perhaps it's just that the factory is the natural place for the broken ones (even if few) to end up.

...................................................................................

maxer51tx.....That's the PLACE. Went there and didn't get ambushed today. Maybe the complaints got through . It's SPACEK.
Thanks for reminder.

 

[Old Fuff]

Someone would have to be very dumb to drop the hammer when the slide wasn't in place, but I supose ....

Anyway, if that was the case the frame would be badly battered and peened where the hammer was hitting it, and the cause for any cracks would be obvious.

I think that a partial cause is from the slide striking the lug at the back of the frame because of a weak/or set recoil spring combined with high velocity ammunition. This tends to streach the frame and it cracks at the weakest point.

By the way, don't try to case-harden or otherwise heat treat the frame. It won't help and you will likely warp it and make things worse.

I have an old Supermatic Trophy I bought at Camp Perry during the middle 1960's. It has literally thousands upon thousands of rounds through it, and has only suffered from finish wear. It still groups under 3/4 inches at 50 yards from a Ransom machine rest. Unquestionably I got my money's worth.

 

[Topgun]

Old Fuff....Nope. Even when talking to the factory guy, he said same about a case harden. Not the way to go. The steel won't take a real heat treatment due to composition.

I love this old gun and am putting the long barrel on as soon as it gets back from being returned. The chamber is a tad too short and won't extract CCI or Winchester due to the bullet too far into the leade.

Anxiously awaiting the return. That 7.25 incher groups WAY tight.

Was your gun an E. Hartford model?

P.S...I would believe a guy would dry fire without the slide as I have seen it done a bunch of times with 1911's......yeeeeech.

 

[Standing Wolf]

My PERSONAL opinion is that from where they break (just behind the ejector and toward the hammer well) is that someone is dry firing ....and probably with the slide off. THAT looks like it would break it right smart.

High Standard frames crack at the cut out for the slide release lever on the right side: that's where the non-heat-treated steel is thinnest. Dry-firing High Standards results in peening of the barrel at the breech face, but doesn't harm the frame. The frame cracks because the slide snaps back with with more force than the frame can accommodate. The solution is twofold:

1. Use only standard velocity ammunition.

2. Install a slightly stiffer spring in the slide—but don't be surprised if you end up having to shorten it slightly to alleviate feeding problems that result from the slide being out of time.

I shoot two evenings a week with a fellow who owns a High Standard Citation whose right side frame crack was repaired by a gunsmith who installed a small steel plate. Several years later, the left side cracked. He never shot anything but standard velocity ammunition through the gun. Curiously, he now shoots a Texas High Standard Citation. It was a lousy gun out of the box. After extensive repairs and custom gunsmithing, it's now a fairly reliable gun.

East Hartford High Standards were often inferior to those made in Hamden. High Standard jobbed out much of its East Hartford production. My East Hartford Trophy is my finest, most reliable gun, closely followed by one of my East Hartford Victors; my other East Hartford Victor, however, has always been a problem child. I believe my friendly local gunsmith has solved its problem, but now its magazine is flaking out. Such problems are the norm with High Standards, and always were even in the company's heyday. My only Hamden High Standard is a plinker—but a very well made plinker.

Talking to anyone at "the factory" in Texas is a waste of time. The individual who now owns the High Standard name has an extremely bad reputation in the High Standard community. Far be it from me to stoop to gossip, but if you noodle around at Jim Spacek's site, you'll soon learn why.

Spacek's site is a wretched mess. His old site was a less wretched mess. His is a labor of love, not profit, so I try not to complain, but it's slow, unreliable, ugly, and flaky. I use a Macintosh, so it's immune to 99.99% of Windows ugliness. Perhaps if you upgraded to http://www.mozilla.org you'd have to contend with fewer uglies.

A really good High Standard leaves the Smith & Wesson model 41 in the dust; unfortunately, finding good High Standards isn't for the faint of heart, and finding gunmiths competent to work on them is a positively Herculean labor. The model 41 does, indeed, torque, more noticeably with the longer barrel. I shoot my model 41 as a practice gun. Two or three weeks before a match, I switch back to my Trophy with barrel from http://www.volquartsen.com to take advantage of the far superior trigger and barrel, then shoot the match with it.

Here's a painting of it.

 

[Topgun]

Here's a pic of mine.
http://www.tech-line.com/hockit/hstd.JPG

The longer barrel I ordered from the Texas mfg. I shot it and the group was FANTASTIC! The only problem was that the chamber is not right for anything but Remington........and I don't shoot HiSpeeds in the HiStandard.

It was just while talking to them about the chamber problem when I raised the subject of the frame cracking. HE said the ones they get in are usually cracked at the back of the ejector.

Anyhow, I use only SV and have the heavier recoil spring and will just continue to do so.

Just today I posted an idea on the Spacek ADVERTISING site about how someone should come up with a threaded plug that could be drilled and tapped into that frame lug and could have either a heavy sprung stud or a plastic rod in it that would act as a buffer for the slide.

But.....so far no cracks and I am probably just fretting over nothing.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The only problem was that the chamber is not right for anything but Remington...

I'm glad you got an accurate barrel. If the Remington ammunition doesn't deliver the desired accuracy—it's infamous for not doing so—you might look into C.C.I. standard velocity and/or Green Tag. The latter is much more expensive. Some of the people I shoot with have been using P.M.C. Score Master with good results, and it's less expensive than the C.C.I. rounds.

A recoil lug buffer would be an excellent idea, I'd say, although I have a hunch High Standard purists would scoff.