Question for vintage High Standard .22 owners: AMMO?

[Jim NE]

Some have said use standard velocity in my nice old m101 Duramatic. This is because there is a rumor that .22 Hi VELOCITY might crack the frame.

Yesterday I ran 30 rounds of CCI standard lead round nose .22LR through thr gun no problem. Today, it wouldn't have any of it...same ammo and every thing. Tried Remington "sub-sonic" but it was worse.

Went back to several mags of CCI mini mag it worked perfect (with the factory mag) , as it had before when I first got the gun.

WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? Use the CCI mini Mag? How likely is it to damage the frame in reality? The gun is from the mid-60's and in very nice shape, so I don't see myself shooting it alot. On the other hand, I don't like owning guns that can't be shot regularly and with a good degree of reliability.

I looked for standard velocity copper top, as I thought that might help (Help feed, anyway) , but couldn't find any out there.

Thanks for your input.

 

[OleCodger]

When you say that it wouldn't have it, I'm not quite sure what the problems were....

I have a mid-60's High Standard Sharpshooter with Bull Barrel that I absolutely love to shoot. It's the most accurate pistol in my safe. I only run subsonic through it.....Wolf Match Target or Randfeuerpatronen Kal. .22 (yep, that's what it says on the box....I understand it's the same as Wolf). I clean it after every range trip and so far it has operated virtually flawlessly. I'm afraid to try the high velocity stuff since I want to pass it down to my Son. I don't claim do be even close to an expert but I'd probably give it a good cleaning if needed. I'd probably order the original recoil spring from Midway and replace it since the previous owner may have installed a stouter spring to handle high velocity ammo. I replaced mine right after purchase and if I recall correctly, it calls for a 4.5 or 5 pound spring. I know this is a lot of verbiage and not a lot of information and I apologize for that. Hope you get to the bottom of the problem...those old Hamden, Conn. High Standards were great shooters.

 

[1KPerDay]

I run federal bulk (high velocity, copper washed HP stuff) pretty much exclusively through my Duramatic. No problems. If it ever breaks, which I doubt, it's like a $250 pistol. And it's the ugly stepson of the nice Hi Standards. But it shoots fine and my kids like it.

I'd find something other than the mini-mags, though. Try the federal champions. They work for me in every pistol and rifle I own.

 

[devildog4329]

With a manufacture date of the mid 60's you have nothing to worry about. Since 1934 most 22 rifles, pistols, and handguns were made to fire 22 high velocity. Prior to 1934 standard velocity 22 ammo was the norm.

Being that your high standard was made in the 60's I would say you are good. You can also look at the Highstandard forums for more detailed information.

 

[mbopp]

Post your question over in the High Standard forum at rimfirecentral:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

Depending on the model it may or may not be prone to frame cracking with HV ammo. But the guys over at RFC will tell you for sure.

 

[OleCodger]

John Stinson Jr. is the noted "expert" on older High Standard pistols. The note below was copied directly from one of his quotes. He addresses the 102 and later models so you may be safe with yours. Also you might want to to to RimfireCentral.com and search your question for more info than you can digest in a week! It's a documented fact that hv ammo has caused cracked frames on the older 1960's vintage HS pistols. However, as someone said, they're only a $250 pistol so if it cracks, so what? But the fact is I wouldn't take $500 for mine if I couldn't replace it. Boils down to how much of a gambler are you. By the way, many of the older HS pistol owners manuals are available on his website (free).

John J. Stimson, Jr.
Cracked High Standard frames
Wed Dec 6, 2006 16:59
69.136.178.195 (XFF: 136.20.6.32)


Hello Bill,

Cracked frames on High Standard are a reality on the 102 and later series. They are not common but they do occur.

The cracks are fatigue cracks that first occur in the right hand rail between teh back right crner of the magazine well and the slide lock lever pocket. Continued neglect will result in another crack at the left rear of the magazine well.

As a fatigue crack, this takes a lot of rounds before it occurs. Owners can prolong the period before a crack occurs if not entirely eliminate the occurance of a crack by; 1. using only standard velocity ammunition and 2. replacing the slide recoil spring periodically - say every 20,000 rounds. The standard velocity reounds do not batter the recoil lug as hard as the high or hyper velocity rounds thus reducing the stress on the frame. The spring wears out by rubibg the inside if its hole in the slide and on the outside of the retracting rod. THe wear reduces the stiffness of the spring which increases the velocity at which teh slide impacts the slide stop lug. Standdrd and stiffer than standard recoil springs are available from wolff.

John Stimson

 

[Jim NE]

Thanks everyone. VERY valuable information. I'll go over to the high standard forum and check it out.

I have to admit, the gun did work flawlessly for the first 30 rounds on standard velocity lead nose ammo. I took it apart last night down to most individual components for cleaning- possible that it was never cleaned outside of bore and externals. The gun hasn't been used much during it's life, and the amount of grime I found might be consistant with a gun that's never been fully taken apart before cleaning. I might try shooting standard velocity again and see how it works.

It's weird, looking at the pistol, you'd think it'd have a reputation for cracked all-plastic grips, not frames. I've found no crack anywhere on mine.

I know ugly stepson is a figure of speech, but I find nothing ugly about the Duramatic. It has that vaguely Colt woodsman/Challenger look. Challengers don't seem less attractive than woodsmans to me just because they're less expensive and have less features. Good point on avoiding mini-mags.

 

[OleCodger]

I agree on the not being ugly but as always, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I personally think the old HS were some of the sharpest looking pistols made but I also think the 1950-1959 automobiles are the sharpest looking cars ever built. However I'm looking through eyes that are almost 74 years old.....the younger generation has a lot of different ideas on many things!!!! Enjoy your High Standard.

 

[forindooruseonly]

Yesterday I ran 30 rounds of CCI standard lead round nose .22LR through thr gun no problem. Today, it wouldn't have any of it...same ammo and every thing. Tried Remington "sub-sonic" but it was worse.

Went back to several mags of CCI mini mag it worked perfect (with the factory mag) , as it had before when I first got the gun.

WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? Use the CCI mini Mag?

I'd find out why it isn't running what it did yesterday. Did you clean/lube it and try again?

 

[Jim NE]

I'd find out why it isn't running what it did yesterday. Did you clean/lube it and try again?

I think that's a great strategy. I took the gun apart and cleaned it last night. Haven't shot it again though. I looked on the rimfire site, and although there seems to be some ambiguity as to whether my gun actually needs to have standard vel. (they say it's mostly a problem the "big button" models - 102 and higher) I'd like to make standard vel. work if I can.

I hadn't cleaned it between the time I first shot it (successfully with S.V.) and the second time I shot it (unsuccessfully.) I believe it's now cleaner than it's been in many years, so cross my fingers...

...but I also think the 1950-1959 automobiles are the sharpest looking cars ever built.

I agree. I love and own old cars. But I do remember as a little kid in the late 1960's thinking some cars from the late 1950's were kind of unsightly. I don't think that way anymore, but it proves your point about "eye of the beholder."

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The High Standard Duramatic was made to shoot high velocity ammunition. It was a holster/trail/plinker designed and made long after the transition from standard velocity to high velocity.

 

[Jim NE]

The High Standard Duramatic was made to shoot high velocity ammunition. It was a holster/trail/plinker designed and made long after the transition from standard velocity to high velocity.

It looks like Vern Humphrey is correct. I just received this reply from one of the resident High Standard experts at the HS forum on the rimfire site:

"The Duramatic is a completely different design than the big button guns and is not subject to frame cracking in the same area that the big button guns are. I've never heard of nor seen a cracked frame Duramatic. Use high velocity to your heart's content. CCI Mini-mags are usually touted as the best combination of consistentcy, accuracy and reliability in the high velocity shooting fraternity. "

So it looks like mini-mags will be OK. I guess that's why it's called the "dura" matic.


Still, I'm glad I asked. You never know until you ask. THANKS VERN. Hopefully this helps others who asking the same question

 

[1KPerDay]

I know ugly stepson is a figure of speech, but I find nothing ugly about the Duramatic. It has that vaguely Colt woodsman/Challenger look. Challengers don't seem less attractive than woodsmans to me just because they're less expensive and have less features.

Yeah, but the goofy stamped trigger guard seems like an afterthought and that combined with the rotary knob for the barrel nut (which for me loosens frequently) are not attractive to my eye. The higher end HS pistols are very graceful by design. The Dura-Matic is appropriately named. Durable, utilitarian, and not particularly good-looking.

Like me.

 

[Jim NE]

not particularly good-looking.

Like me.

I'm sure you look just fine.

Anyway, you were right about the Duramatic being OK with high velocity ammo. Thanks for your input, 1K. It helps to know. Just hope that someone else finds this info if they're curious.

Yeah, that knob comes loose for me as well. Usually about 50 rounds into a shooting session. I've considered putting lock-tite on it, but it'd be kind of fun to see if I could find a shorter barrel for a few bucks. Wouldn't pay an arm and a leg for one, though. See you later, and good shooting.

 

[1KPerDay]

 

[OleCodger]

Yeah, but the goofy stamped trigger guard seems like an afterthought and that combined with the rotary knob for the barrel nut (which for me loosens frequently) are not attractive to my eye. [/COLOR

Guess that's the reason I think they're purty since I can relate to being goofy, always having afterthoughts, have been accused of being a loose nut and not being particularly dashingly handsome!

 

[1KPerDay]

lol