Some IDPA rule questions

[SDM]

I have been reading the IDPA rule book and I’ve come up with a couple of questions I thought someone here might be able to help me with.

“Competitors must use the same capacity magazines through out the competition
(Example: if you start with a 9 round magazine, you must use that capacity magazine throughout the match).”

I have been using a combination of two hi-caps (downloaded) and three 10-rounders. I put 10-rounders on my belt and start the stage with the hi-cap (loaded with 11 rounds). Have I been doing something illegal or am I ok since all my mags can be loaded to the maximum of ten?

“6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original factory model.”

I recently bought a Glock 31 and I am considering getting a 22 barrel for it. Does this rule mean I wouldn’t be able to use the .40 barrel for competition? I am thinking the issue will surround the term “original factory model” and the fact that Glock assigns model numbers to the different calibers (i.e. – 17, 22, 31 and 19, 23, 32) where other manufacturers may have different calibers of same model name.

 

[ChristopherG]

1--since you're effectively using your hi-cap mags as 10-rounders (indeed, you must do so), there's no problem here; they're all treated as 10-rounders. This is SOP.

2--Since no-one else has jumped in on this, I'll answer though I'm not stone certain. I THINK you would have to shoot a caliber-converted Glock in ESP rather than SSP.

 

[nonquixote]

“6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original factory model.”

What I take this to mean is that you can't convert your pistol into something the factory doesn't offer to the general public, i.e. I can shoot my CZ75BSA in ESP with the original .40 caliber barrel but not with the Bar-Sto .357sig barrel I recently fit in it. Or, I couldn't use a .400 Cor-Bon barrel in a .45 pistol that didn't offer that as a factory option.

As for your Glock, I guess by the letter of the law, you could only shoot the native caliber (.357sig correct?) in your 31, but can't see why anyone would beef over shooting it with a .40 barrel, a caliber that would make your pistol basically identical to another legal model number.

Nonq

 

[Navy joe]

As stated your mags are fine. The rule is written because many pistols have commonly available mags with different capacities. For example, with a 1911 if I bring 7 and 8 round magazines, without this rule I would perhaps use a seven round mag on one stage because it would allow me a faster slidelock reload at a good place. The next stage maybe an eight round puts you in a spot to relaod. Thus the rule. "Class capacity is another one. You must load 10+1 if your gun supports it. Same deal, maybe 10 rounds gives me a slidelock reload where having 11 causes me to reload IDPA style. You can't pick and choose when to load 10 and when to load 11 unless the stage description tells you to load x number. Back to your full cap mags, I prefer them because they reload easier on a closed slide than trying to stuff a fully compressed 10 rd mag into the gun in a hurry. I keep the Clinton mags for practice.

 

[Jim Watson]

Since Glock model numbers are calibre specific, you may not use a calibre conversion barrel in a Glock for SSP. This has been specifically addressed by IDPA HQ. Most places will let you shoot it in ESP but the rules can be read to not allow it there, either. Does an allowable modification of "replacement of the barrel with one of FACTORY CONFIGURATION" include the size of the hole? If so you are sunk.

You can of course just say nothing about it and shoot. I've never seen an MD look at the roll marks.

 

[Hoser]

Starting out with an 11 round mag is very smart and 100% legal. Gets you topped off at 10+1 without having to do the barney bullet thing.

I have seen some guys shoot a 40 barrel in their G-20 just cause 10mm ammo/brass is so expensive. They were most likely in SSP, but not legally.

 

[NateG]

Joe, possibly silly question:

Same deal, maybe 10 rounds gives me a slidelock reload where having 11 causes me to reload IDPA style

What is "IDPA style?" And how is it different from simply changing magazines while you have a round in the chamber? And how is that (or whatever it actually means) slower than changing magazines with the slide locked back?

 

[ChristopherG]

I think from the context Joe must mean a 'tactical reload', which is the only reload allowed in IDPA other than a slide-lock reload. In a tactical reload, you DO change magazines while you have one in the chamber; but you have to RETAIN the magazine (and the extra rounds it theoretically contains--thus 'tactical'), stowing it in a pocket before you start shooting again. So the reload itself is not actually slower than a slide-lock reload; but all that magazine fiddling sure is. On a slide-lock, you get to just drop the empty mag on the ground and go.

Neither is as fast as a USPSA-style 'speed reload', in which you simply drop the mag on the ground (with a round in the chamber) and jam another mag in. IDPA just doesn't allow you to do that.

 

[Joe D]

Here is something for you SO's to watch for. I caught a shooter at our last State Match try and do a slick little reload trick. When he got to the next firing position, P3, on my stage he had a round left in the barrel, but an empty mag. He dropped the mag and racked the slide. He claimed he thought he was at slide lock when he dropped the mag. Had this been a Marksman or Sharpshooter I might have believed him. A top Master, no way, you are busted.
The sad thing is this young man is a very good shooter. He has the potential to be one of the top IDPA shooters. I wonder if his dad, who coaches him, is teaching him these "tricks". BTW every miss he has he claims a double. He tried that with me at the Georgia match and the Alabama. When I saw his group come to my stage at the Alabama match I changed all of the targets. He had a miss on my stage. My call to the score keeper was "Perfect double, minus 5".

 

[Jim Watson]

I have seen this done, usually by people of less experience who probably DID lose track and thought their gun was empty and had not slidelocked. They seldom draw a P.E. because the SO does not see a competitive advantage.
But this prodigy must see some advantage to it or he would not do it.
Anyhow, the rules do not require an actual advantage, they just do not allow dropping a magazine out from under a loaded chamber, period.

A gimmick reload and routine claims of "double" indicate a lack of ethics and sportsmanship in said prodigy... or father. And for what? A trophy. Unless he gets so good as to be a full time employee of a gun or ammo company. And there aren't many of those.

 

[Dolomite]

he had a round left in the barrel, but an empty mag. He dropped the mag and racked the slide. He claimed he thought he was at slide lock when he dropped the mag.

Wha? That is just weird. Sounds like someone doesn’t like to have to use the slide release lever? What kind of gun was he using (if you can remember)?

They seldom draw a P.E. because the SO does not see a competitive advantage.

That’s how I roll – usually.

the rules do not require an actual advantage, they just do not allow dropping a magazine out from under a loaded chamber, period.

Worth repeating.



LOL - "Perfect double, minus 5" (I've got to remember that one).

 

[cadfael]

The prodigy screwed up... he should have dumped an extra round and actually gone to slide lock, the FTDR is accessed even less than a PE for the wrong reload.

Why do I picture this prodigy's dad with a zz-top-ish beard?

Adam

 

[Joe D]

The advantage was not having to retain the empty mag. It is faster to just rack the slide.
Dolomite, 9mm 1911.

 

[Joe D]

Here's another question for you guys. What do you think about a shooter that would activate a double swinger, on his own, just to get another look at it before it was his time to shoot?

 

[Jim Watson]

That falls under rule C4, pg 9, "Individual rehearsals of a CoF are not allowed." A real hardnosed SO could give a FTDR.

 

[Tim Burke]

And it ought to be punished with at least a procedural, IMO.

 

[BozemanMT]

What is a FTDR?
failure To something or other.

 

[ChristopherG]

Do Right.

20 second penalty, basically a game-ender for a serious competitor, amounting to the RO saying, "you cheated."

 

[Kend]

Had this been a Marksman or Sharpshooter I might have believed him. A top Master, no way, you are busted.

Was the penalty a PE or FTDR? Would you give a MM or SS a break or a lesser penalty?

 

[Joe D]

He got lucky. The targets on the right hand side of the range had not been pasted. He got a re-shoot. I warned him if he did it again I would issue a FTDR.
He would have gotten a Procedural the first time.