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Some Liberals Actually DO love the Second Amendment -- teach yours to love it, too

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by Aristodemus, Nov 5, 2009.

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  1. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    There's a group of users on dailykos.com who are out to prove that you can be liberal/progressive AND a big 2A supporter.

    They're attempting to post a new diary every Tuesday. You can search for it right here (or just go to www.dailykos.com/search and put RKBA in the search field "stories and diaries"). Forward this link to any liberal friends you have who don't support RKBA.

    One extremely popular one was written last year and recently reposted. It's titled "Why Liberals Should Love the Second Amendment." Read it, forward it to any liberal friends you have who don't support RKBA. It is long, detailed, and hot-linked to numerous data sources. Hell, if you google it you'll find it cross-posted all over conservative and libertarian sites and blogs.

    DKos has a formula to calculate "impact" for a diary. On the day "Why Liberals Should Love the Second Amendment" was posted its "impact" score was 19th out of 120 diaries that day.

    Doesn't suck. It means a lot of people read it, and there were 560 separate comments. Some pie-fights, to be sure, but also some people who lean to the left who understand the issue just a little bit better.



    Mod Note: Remember the sticky on posting in Activism? For your post to remain in this thread stay focused on the topic of constructively reaching folks who identify themselves as liberal with the RKBA message. Don't wander into what a "liberal" is or isn't or whether they're good folks or evil. If you can't be positive with this idea don't post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2009
  2. LibShooter

    LibShooter Member

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    This Liberal who loves the Second Amendment thanks you for the tip. I'm going there now.
     
  3. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Thanks for posting this, Aristodemus.

    I read that. Found it very well done. The argument is cogent, logical, articulate.

    I'm not liberal. But neither am I conservative, libertarian, or green.

    I'm apolitical. I just don't do politics. Period. I disdain politics (not statesmanship, but politics as practiced in the US today).

    But I still like the article, and will encourage libs I know to read it.

    I hope this thread attracts more attention. I get so freaking tired of liberal bashing on gun lists. I find it sophomoric black/white, either/or, us v them reasoning. Life is not that clear cut. One can be a liberal and still support 2A. That article, and even some of the comments appended to it, should offer evidence of that.

    Nem
     
  4. sherman123

    sherman123 Member

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    +1 Nematocyst, I hear terms like "tree hugging hippy liberal" thrown around and it does nothing but hurt our cause.
     
  5. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    this is why I LOVE THR -- open minds and good manners!

    At [________].com I'd usually get flamed for even daring to suggest that RKBA advocates can be found left of center. Lots of nice terms like "libertard" being thrown around. Lots of vitriol. Lots of tin-foil caps.

    HERE at THR folks are so much more respectful toward others -- other people's opinions, ideas, political affiliations, etc.

    Just last night I found the Liberal Gun Club. I read the "Beliefs" section and agree with most of the reasoning, disagree with some of the conclusions, but can live with the differences of opinion.

    It also has links to other sites featuring the intersection of firearms ownership and left of center politics. I knew about Pink Pistols -- love 'em. I was pleased to see that AHSA sent a letter to Attorney General Holder encouraging him to not attempt to renew the AWB.

    Which brings me back to my point that THR is definitely the firearms site for people whose brains are engaged and who understand that we all hang together, or we all hang together, without regard to which party is indicated on our sample ballot.

    So, LibShooter, Nematocyst, sherman123, thanks for the encouraging words.

    And Nematocyst -- you get bonus points for your sig:
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  6. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Can I apply those towards the purchase of an AR?

    ;)
     
  7. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    just want to make sure this is the correct forum . . .

    Almost forgot -- I wasn't sure just which forum was the most appropriate, so Moderator, if I've goofed, I won't be offended if you redirect me to a different forum.

    I'm encouraging people to read and forward RKBA content that happens to come from left of center groups -- especially forwarding to any left of center friends/family/acquaintances who might be anti-RKBA and who might be more open to RKBA content that originates from sources closer to their own political coordinates. I'm not advocating any ideology except RKBA.

    I'm just saying "please read, forward, and link."

    Please read, forward, and link.

    Please read, forward, and link.

    Please read, forward, and link.

    Please read, forward, and link.

    Please read, forward, and link.

    Are we cool?
     
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I saw it 4 minutes after you posted.

    The thread's still open, but there has to be something more that can be done than sending it out just to individuals. Shouldn't we make sure that we push it to a wider distribution? The internet is a vast tool to reach the "print is dead" generations, but what can we do with this to reach "boomers" also? The piece is a great argument that we can use, but if we leverage it properly we can reach so many more people that need to "hear" it.
     
  9. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    Absolutely.

    And so as to not hijack my activism thread into a hardware thread, I'll IM you a list of hardware that's certified good to go by Pat Rogers, the man who knows as much about the AR platform as anybody on the planet.
     
  10. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    hso:

    Good point. I dig on the pure meritocracy of the internet -- where ordinary people can garner huge distribution purely on word of mouth. 30-Second Bunny Theater (for an extreme example) has passed the one BILLION hit mark. It is now commercially sponsored, but from inception until recently it was just a lark that people would send along, und so weiter.

    I'm sort of a stone knives and bear skins kind of internet guy -- before Twitter, before Facebook, before Myspace, even before Firefox, IE and Mosaic . . . we got by with usenet, ftp and that gopher thing I could never get to work properly.

    That’s not to say that new media technologies can’t increase leverage – your point is made just by examining the increase in the curviness of the curve (vague memories of differential calculus) from those ancient technologies available only to .gov and .edu, to, e.g., Twitter, so that you can, if you want, now let the entire world know what you had for breakfast. ;-)

    For further analysis I'm gonna have to ask my 9-year old niece how she stays connected to the world . . .
     
  11. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Yes.
    But print is (mostly) dead (or at least dying, at least for now...)

    If the boomers want to keep up, they should go digital like the rest of us did. :rolleyes:

    (Hey, I was born in '50, but I started with DOS and never turned back.)

    For those that didn't, I'd recommend a bunch of 1/8 page fliers
    with some appropriate images (levers, wheels, blades ...),
    about 9 words (*), and links to relevant pages.

    * Give up your guns, give your freedom to tyrants.
    * Guns in the US kill fewer people than cars.
    * Want fresh meat on your table? Buy a gun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  12. jfh

    jfh Member

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    Let's work on sorting out the OUTREACH

    to specific "forums" where the RKBA is a topic.

    For those of us who do this--i.e., cruise the 'net looking for discussion into which to place RKBA / pro-individual viewpoints--there's a couple of needs.

    1. A list of forums / sites / where these discussions can take place. This list would not be, for example, as generic as "The New York Times, but might well include a link to their "Gun Control" page. (Which is woefully un-updated, and provides no discussion format--but it's a marker we should have). A better marker would be into their Daily Lede Blog, I suspect.

    2. An ever-expanding list of the topics-du-jour. That is, a basic take on the current talking points. (For example, while I haven't looked for it yet, there is no doubt that "semiautomatic assault weapons" will come up again w/r/t the Fort Hood mess.)

    A topic / post that is updated regularly would be of great help, IMO.

    Jim H.
     
  13. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    Real liberals could do nothing but support the Second Amendment.
     
  14. SuperNaut

    SuperNaut Member

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    Thanks for the link Aristodemus. I recall reading that earlier this year, but it is good to know that there is some will behind it. I'll keep checking in in Tuesdays to see where it goes. Just a word of warning, look into the AHSA with a skeptical eye - they are not what they portray themselves to be.

    I have found THR (1&2) to be made up of people who sport a great variety of political views. Where most of us come together is in support of the 2A. I'm glad to see this in the Activism forum, this is where the rubber meets the road.
     
  15. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Folks, I'm going to put my mean old mod hat on and ask that we keep the thread focused on the plan requirements and not drift or hyjack. I would hate chattiness to push this out of Activism and into Activism Discussion.

    Astrodemus has identified an outstanding tool and a good plan to reach an important segment of society that needs to be reached by "our truth" instead of "their propaganda". We may expand on the plan or refine the plan a bit, but let's stay with working the plan and avoid the tendency to dilute the effort with side chatter since this is such a good idea.

    If you want to toss your two cents in outside the narrow scope of this particular discussion, open your own in AD.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  16. AStone

    AStone Member

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    My Friday night, let-the-hard-week-go jive talk not-withstanding <ahem>, I very much agree. This ball is too important to drop it.

    A request: could someone - you or Aristodemus, probably - clearly explicate "the plan".

    I'm sure there's a good one in here, but a quick reread this afternoon before lunch doesn't tell me exactly what the plan is other than to expose more folks to the resources offered above by forwarding.

    I suspect you're talking about more to the plan than that, right?

    Or is that what we're brainstorming here: what that plan is, exactly.

    (BTW: I'm going to send a link to this thread to a couple of personal friends/colleagues, one of whom is already a member (though an infrequent visitor these days) and one of whom isn't yet but is considering it. Between the three of us, we know a bunch of folks that need to read that angry mouse essay.)
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    They really should. Unfortunately, many don't. We need to work on that. Of course the Socialists will never believe in people owning guns because they believe in government running our lives, and those two things don't go together well. I wish the Liberals would take the Democratic party back over.

    I wish them all the luck in the world.
     
  18. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Well, duh (*), ok, i just read more carefully, especially Jim's post 12.

    Yeah; makes sense.

    I know there's more in here to parse, too; hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to read it ... at work tonight.

    (* Excuse: my earlier post wuz before breakfast.)
     
  19. okespe04

    okespe04 Member

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    Lots of gun toting liberals here in Oregon. I used to be one of them but have started leaning more to the right for the last few years.
     
  20. AStone

    AStone Member

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    <gentle reminder> OK, folks, like Hso suggested, let's keep this thread on topic.

    This isn't a place to discuss what liberals are or are not, to distinguish them as a category from conservatives, libertarians, etc.

    This thread is about extending arguments and resources about RKBA and guns to anyone who is a partial anti, or at least a fence sitter when it comes to guns, regardless of their political persuasion.

    Let's not risk closing this thread with conversations about what "liberal" means.
    We can talk about action here while being vague about what "liberal" means, exactly.
     
  21. SuperNaut

    SuperNaut Member

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    The most persuasive method I have found to spread the RKBA message to my liberal anti-friends is just being myself. I'm not your traditional gun enthusiast and I'm not secretive about my guns or their use. I try to keep it as above-board, de-mystified, and as normal as I can. Just to show by example that the stereotype painted by the anti-gun minority in the US is utterly wrong.

    IRL I also refrain from trying to actively "convert" anyone. I make it clear that a trip to the range is a standing open invite, but I never preach, or push, or berate. During gun-related arguments I do my level best to stick to the facts and if it gets heated, I will usually just shut up and let the other side have their say. IMO once you resort to emotional arguments you are playing the anti's game, one that they know well enough to win.
     
  22. AStone

    AStone Member

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    So, you don't exhibit this kind of behavior? :)

    I agree with your strategy, SN. I do the same around my friends and acquaintances, and increasingly even around clients. I rarely bring up guns myself in conversation (outside of my normal gun friends), but if the topic comes up, I'll freely discuss it, and name myself as a gun owner since I was 9.

    If they ask what kinds of guns I own, I tell them the same as my sig line says, with a bit more reservation about the AR, but I'm not bashful of it.

    I've only had one good liberal friend and colleague react negatively - and in his case, extremely negatively, in a totally irrational, won't even listen to reason.

    And it's people like him that I'm most interested in learning more from this thread about how to ... nudge him towards rationality.
     
  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    So do I. Above board, no apologies, never argue, always ready to teach or take shooting.

    When asked if I have any "assault rifles" I tell them I have a couple of semi auto lookalikes, and that they are fun to shoot.
     
  24. ants

    ants Member

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    I agree with all the positive comments on this thread. Walkalong and SuperNaut say it nicely. Take people out shooting, they'll have fun!



    Funny thing. Shooting is not a political act. It's fun. It's challenging. It's competitive. It saves lives. It's right.

    Shooting only becomes political when people on either side make it political. And that's bad for everyone on both sides. Once an activity becomes a political football, everyone loses.

    Shooting sports and gun ownership are not political unless you are dead determined to make it so. Then we all lose.
     
  25. Shadan7

    Shadan7 Member

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    Thanks to Aristodemus and all the others - I'm part of that dKos group, and have been fighting the good fight for RKBA there for 5+ years. There has been significant progress, I am happy to say. :evil:

    In addition, I also try and take my liberal friends shooting, showing them that it is fun as well as practical. It makes more converts than all my internet discussions ever could, and I heartily recommend it to those who may know someone of a liberal bent.

    Cheers!


    Jim D.
     
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