Some Liberals Actually DO love the Second Amendment -- teach yours to love it, too

[ants]

I forgot to mention, on the subject of Activism:

In my state we have a committee of shooters with one goal: Introduce shooting to politicians, especially those who lean the other way because they've never been part of it before.

If you want to form a committee, first recruit community leaders who are already shooters. This goes a long way to attracting non-shooting politicians, who are more likely to see them as peers and agree to participate.

Take your guests to a safe and clean range, take hand cleaner and clean towels with you. Review the safety rules, take the NRA safe shooting pamphlets with you. Insist on safety.

After the fun, clean up and buy them lunch. You don't have to be a hard salesman. Don't lecture them. Just let them shoot safely and responsibly. They will learn from your example.

 

[okespe04]

I took a liberal to buy his first shotgun the other day then took him shooting. I even gave him a couple of 00 buck loads to take home with him. He is now saving up for a revolver. Thank you very much.

 

[Babarsac]

I also consider myself in the ranks of gun-toting liberals, and soon to be a suppressor-toting liberal. I've taken quite a few friends and co-workers to the range and have one looking to take a CCW class with me. I'm very happy with the tone and information available on this forum and am glad to contribute.

P.S. What's really funny is when NOVA drivers pull up behind me and see my Coexist sticker next to my NRA sticker their heads pop

 

[Aristodemus]

I can't resist opportunities for self-deprecation

A request: could someone - you or Aristodemus, probably - clearly explicate "the plan".

I'm sure there's a good one in here, but a quick reread this afternoon before lunch doesn't tell me exactly what the plan is other than to expose more folks to the resources offered above by forwarding.

I suspect you're talking about more to the plan than that, right?

Or is that what we're brainstorming here: what that plan is, exactly.

Pink Pistols has an excellent plan for activism in the physical world titled "Breaking Barriers and Building Bridges"

Take a look at the page; it provides in part:

Socially, the pink and shooting communities are both quite similar. Both are often insular and can be closeted, and both have a stereotypical preconceptions about what the other is like. Members of either group can feel threatened by a representative of the other group. Because you belong to two groups which are supposed to oppose each other, people are forced to question their preconceptions about whether shooters and pink people should be adversarial and why. Their confusion creates curiosity and gives you a chance to step in and explain your views, potentially building relationships.

That's consistent with my personal experience. The local chapter organizer would suggest a date/time for a group shoot, and we'd go shoot. Some of the folks who showed up were gay, some were straight, some were experienced with firearms, some were novices. Everybody was cool.

There are already intersections in the virtual world as well.

Oleg Volk and Pink Pistols have worked together. To a libertarian these things already go together like peanut butter and jelly. To the rest of the political spectrum, however, this coexistence is not intuitive, hence the comment that “both are often insular and can be closeted, and both have a stereotypical preconceptions about what the other is like.”

I think approaches for both virtual and physical outreach are worthwhile. I live in the Northwest. Pretty easy for me to contact the PP chapters in Portland, Tacoma and Seattle and, say, see if we can muster enough people to get a group rate on some classes with Firearms Academy of Seattle (which is actually in Centralia, roughly half-way between Portland and Seattle). If I had any friends who were RKBA-friendly but not GBLT-friendly . . . I'm not saying you have to tell any invitees all the details of what they're getting into.

Their FAQ (PP, not FAS) discusses their political neutrality and how they interact with the world of politics.

The aforementioned links on The Liberal Gun Club are a logical step in the virtual direction. Let’s say, counting LGC, there’s five other groups they link to. If I contact one and five other people each contact one . . . .

Somebody savvy with the social networking products should initiate contact, establish areas of mutual agreement, and "make friends" or W(ever)TF you call it. Voila! Via six degrees of separation, you can potentially reach the entire work (or at least that portion of the world that speaks English and has internet access).

If there are enough members of such groups in a geographic location, organize a group shoot. Few people are going to agree to meet over beers just to scream at each other about diametrically opposed political views. But more people would probably be interested in an activity – like a day at the range.

Then, if I take my tips from South Park appropriately, you add to the invitation that the event will feature punch and pie. More people show up if there’s punch and pie.



Is plan, no?

Only remaining issue is whether these discussions should stay here or, at the Mod's discretion, move over to Activism Discussion.

 

[MrPeter]

I just had to say I read this article and am very impressed. Since about 99% (not 100% because I'm sure there's someone I'm forgetting) of my friends and co-workers are slightly to very left leaning (I fall in there somewhere too) I posted it on facebook and urged everyone I know to take a few minutes and read it.

 

[barnetmill]

I quickly read the article. It appears to be somewhat factual and suggests strongly that the point of the 2nd A is for military defense of the nation. It would be a better article if it covered also the recent arguements presented to SCOTUS in the DC case. I am not sure if this is the best arguement to present to liberals. But it is certainly a good start. But how to spead the message? You have true liberals that are interested in the truth and others (libertards) that do not want to be confused by facts. The place to start is likely locally in the democratic party by activism and not just sending emails. Let everyone know that democratic liberal does not have to equal antigun. When there is more time that is what I plan to do. Many top people privately in the repubican party are not necessarily progun either.

PS I like the nematocyst signature, maybe I will change mine to cnidarian

 

[Pileatus]

I am a left leaner myself, and I love shooting and the Second Amendment! Thanks very much for finding this site; a lot of people assume that I and all others who are left of center hate guns and want to disarm the country. Quite to the contrary! As has been said before on this thread, true liberalism is much more in line with gun ownership than it is with gun control, at least in terms of political philosophy. Plus, shooting only gets political when either side makes it into a political shouting match. Blasting a clay pigeon has never been about politics for me, it's about having fun!

Edited to add...this is the reason I like THR better than any other gun site...imagine, actual civil discourse regarding a potentially-controversial issue, on an online firearms forum? Impossible!!!

 

[malix]

I hear terms like "tree hugging hippy liberal" thrown around and it does nothing but hurt our cause.

I agree.

 

[AStone]

...I do not know what a pink community is. I can only guess.

Hint: think gay shooters.

But, admittedly, this site comes up first on a goog search of "pink community".
Somehow, I think that's not what Aristodemus had in mind ...

 

[hso]

Folks,

Once more, try to stay on topic. This thread started out in Activism and a number of posts were pruned trying to keep it focused on how to reach self identified liberals with a particular RKBA argument. Now it's in Activism Discussion, but that doesn't give license to call names, point fingers or shoot off in any direction the word "liberal" causes you to skyrocket. If your posts have been pruned please reread the requirements for posting in the forum. Pay attention to the clearly stated part that negativism isn't going to be tolerated. Come up with ways to improve the original plan, expand upon it or even develop alternate plans, but stay focused on the original intent of reaching folks who identify themselves as "liberals" and gaining their support for RKBA. If you can't do that then don't post in this thread.

 

[skwab]

Here in Texas, many liberals are also shooters. The congress member from our district is a moderate dem who is very pro 2A. - it's hard to get elected in Texas if you're not - but I thought the article was a good one and raised some good points. But I think the best course of action, like others have said, is to invite naysayers to shoot. If they're open minded enough to go, then they are open minded enough to reconsider their position - if not, then don't waste your time because they will never attempt to learn the other argument.

But I remember when I first took my wife shooting - not that she was anti she just never grew up around guns and was afraid of them. Most of us started out early, so I don't recall those emotions the first time I went shooting, but to see her excitement was a lot of fun. Most Antis I have come across have never fired a gun - they are afraid, they have no understanding of a firearm - so to give someone that opportunity and to experience their first shots is a lot of fun.

 

[Aristodemus]

Cheers to all who've read and forwarded.

It would be a better article if it covered also the recent arguements [sic] presented to SCOTUS in the DC case.

The diary was written last year, roughly two months before the Heller opinion. The diary was reposted last month.

Notably, its reasoning WRT an individual rights interpretation closely tracks the reasoning in the Heller majority opinion. But Heller left open sooo many issues, e.g., incorporation, and, oh yeah, *** does "reasonable" mean?

Which is why the diary is that much more important.

The diary points out – to a group of people who self-identify with the terms "liberal" or "progressive" – that they tend to vociferously resist any infringement of the First, the Fourth, the Fifth, the Sixth, and the Eighth Amendments, no matter how "reasonable" the proponents of restrictions claim them to be.

And that such people should therefore be just as suspicious of and just as resistant to whatever somebody proposes as a "reasonable" restriction on the Second.

Why Liberals Should Love the Second Amendment states:

We oppose restrictions to our civil liberties. All of our rights, even the ones enumerated in the Bill of Rights, are restricted. You can't shout "Fire!" in a crowd. You can't threaten to kill the president. You can't publish someone else's words as your own. We have copyright laws and libel laws and slander laws. We have the FCC to regulate our radio and television content. We have plenty of restrictions on our First Amendment rights.

But we don't like them. We fight them. Any card-carrying member of the ACLU will tell you that while we might agree that some restrictions are reasonable, we keep a close eye whenever anyone in government gets an itch to pass a new law that restricts our First Amendment rights. Or our Fourth. Or our Fifth, Sixth, or Eighth.

We complain about free speech zones. The whole country is supposed to be a free speech zone, after all. It says so right in the First Amendment.

But when it comes to the Second Amendment...You could hear a pin drop for all the protest you'll get from liberals when politicians talk about further restrictions on the manufacture, sale, or possession of firearms.

Suddenly, overly broad restrictions are "reasonable." The Washington D.C. ban on handguns -- all handguns -- is reasonable. (Later this year, the Supreme Court will quite likely issue an opinion to the contrary in the Heller case.)

Notably, the ACLU has stated that it "disagrees" with the Heller opinion and suggests that it won't exactly be jumping at every opportunity to oppose the "reasonableness" of a proposed restriction. And it has taken a LOT of heat from many of its members. Maybe more of its members -- people who quite possibly aren't firearms owners -- would be critical of such position if they see the issue of the Second framed in a manner consistent with the ACLU’s positions on the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth. In other words, to direct the ACLU, regardless of whether it "agrees" with Heller's holding, to fight against every attempted "reasonable" restriction of the Second.

Look at the pleadings in Heller II (because it's in the District, the issue of incorporation is not addressed) -- the issues primarily address the "reasonableness" of the new and improved laws D.C. enacted after remand of Heller:

Heller v. D.C. II, Second Amended Complaint

Memorandum Of Points And Authorities In Support Of Plaintiffs’ Motion For Summary Judgment

Plaintiffs’ Opposition To Defendants’ Motion For Summary Judgment

Heller v. D.C. II, Reply Memorandum To Defendants’ Opposition To Plaintiff’s Motion For Summary Judgment

The diary calls out on the carpet people who oppose what government proponents claim are "reasonable" restrictions on the rights enumerated in the First, the Fourth, the Fifth, the Sixth, and the Eighth Amendments, and challenges those people to oppose with equal vigor what government proponents claim are "reasonable" restrictions on the Second.

Staunch defenders of the First Amendment will explain that they will fight for the rights of people to express political speech even if the content of the speech is repugnant to the defenders themselves or even the public in general. Don't like guns? Fine. Don't want them in your house? Fine. Don't like the idea of private ownership of weapons that look scary? Fine. The diary is a call to support the exercise of a right -- with as few restrictions as possible -- even if you personally don't like the right.

I am not sure if this is the best arguement [sic] to present to liberals.

I will happily make the time to read any argument you can find that you think would be more persuasive with an audience who expressly self-identify as being on the left.

But it is certainly a good start.

I agree; it is a good place to start.

But how to spead [sic] the message? You have true liberals that are interested in the truth and others (libertards)

NB: the Mod’s rules about pejoratives.

that do not want to be confused by facts. The place to start is likely locally in the democratic party by activism and not just sending emails.

I am in no way saying that local action isn’t essential. It is.

Standing on a soap box allows your voice to reach that many more people. Movable type that many more, broadcasting via old-style wireless (whatever bandwidths are licensed for radio and television), yet more.

But the internet has proven to be the great equalizer -- merit rules. That which is liked is further distributed. That which is not, is not.

30-Second Bunny Theater has passed one BILLION views.

The Best Page in the Universe has recorded millions of page views.

Admittedly, those are entertainment.

Then consider this: On September 19, 2009 a young woman with a web-cam posted a highly political video-blog entry titled The Origin of Stupidity. I just checked, today, November 11, 2009, and it has had over one MILLION views. Please note, The Origin of Stupidity is highly critical of Ray Comfort, so if you're inclined to agree with Mr. Comfort be warned that you might find the video offensive.

Two months. One million page views. Impressive.

 

[SaMx]

I've read the Daily Kos diary before, but this is the first time I've seen http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/wordpress/

I've thought that kind of organization is really what's needed IMO. Left leaning gun rights activists have a chance to reach a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be very receptive, including politicians, and a place like that is a great way to organize.

 

[KingMedicine]

I call myself an Idaho liberal. Where in idaho, i am pretty far to the left. But if i were in Cali, i would be concidered quite conservitive.

 

[unloved]

I've read the Daily Kos diary before, but this is the first time I've seen http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/wordpress/

I've thought that kind of organization is really what's needed IMO. Left leaning gun rights activists have a chance to reach a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be very receptive, including politicians, and a place like that is a great way to organize.

If only there wasn't a link to the AHSA on that page...