some might find the following of interest, some won't

[alan]

Rick Stanley
Constitutional Activist
Phone: 303-329-0481
E-mail: [email protected]


We the People Scoop 1/14/05 ** Special Edition **
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WE THE PEOPLE SCOOP - TO EXPOSE! **
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MEDIA RELEASE: US adopts National ID

http://www.prisonplanet.com/article...4nationalid.htm

US adopts National ID: Homeland Security Now In charge of Regulations for
all US States Drivers Licenses and Birth Certificates

Jonathan Wheeler | December 10 2004

In a chilling act more reminiscent of the now defunct Soviet Union or the
Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler, the United States Congress passed legislation
yesterday that requires the States to surrender their regulatory rights
over driver's licenses and birth certificates to The Department of Homeland
Security.

The massive US Intelligence Reform Bill weighed in at over 3,000 pages and
though unread by individual Members of either the House or Senate
nevertheless passed all of the legislative hurdles needed in order to
become law.

President Bush lobbied hard for these provisions, only objecting when
Senator Sensenbrenner attempted to require these same provisions for
illegal aliens but which the President opposed. This provision was dropped
from the final bill.

Beginning in 2005, the Department of Homeland Security will issue new
uniformity regulations to the States requiring that all Drivers Licenses
and Birth Certificates meet minimal Federal Standards with regard to US
citizen information, including biometric security provisions.

Added to currently existing Federal Laws and Supreme Court rulings American
citizens when born will be issued a Social Security Number that will be
included on their Birth Certificates, along with DNA biometric markers. All
birth certificates will also be registered in a Federal Government database
maintained by the Department of Homeland Security. No child will be allowed
enrollment to schools or be entitled to either State of Federal Government
benefits programs without first presenting a certified Homeland Security
registered Birth Certificate.

Drivers Licenses will also contain DNA biometric markers and include the
holders Social Security Number and be required for receiving and applying
for all State and Federal benefits programs. Previous Supreme Court rulings
have also upheld State and Federal Law Enforcement authorities right to
request Identification from any American citizen, for any reason and at any
time as not being violations of their, the citizens, constitutionally
protected rights.

Major Banks and credit card companies have applauded the adoption of a
National ID system as being important to counter fraud and increasing
instances of identity theft. National ID cards with biometric markers will
eliminate them from having to issue Credit and Debit cards, which for the
first time in US history have surpassed the usage of checks and cash.
Utilizing The Department of Homeland Securities centralized federal
database, Banks and credit card companies will only require the
presentation of a citizens Driver's License to make purchases as all of the
persons financial information, including credit and cash balances, will
already be known in 'real time'. (The combining of Homeland Security and
Banking databases on citizen's balances and purchases, along with their
past and present purchasing information, has been allowed under previous
Federal Laws including the Patriot Act.)

Also included in this bill is a law to require The Department of Homeland
Security to establish a separate ID system for citizens to use prior to
boarding airplanes, and which is eerily reminiscent of the Soviet and Nazi
regimes dreaded Internal Passport.

Never before in our history have the words of Benjamin Franklin been so
correct when he stated: "people willing to trade their freedom for
temporary security deserve neither and will lose both".

Today, December 9, 2004 will be one of those moments in time that future
historians will look back on and pin point as being the day that the United
States of American, and as it was founded by its forefathers, ceased to exist.

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[TheFederalistWeasel]

The road to hell is paved with the noblest of intentions

 

[River Wraith]

And we are on it, traveling fairly fast.

 

[LadySmith]

Creepy...very creepy.
But somehow I can't say I didn't see it coming.

 

[mbs357]

Well, I'm sure the country's going downhill now. >_<

 

[LawDog]

Hmm.

Do a THR search of 'Rick Stanley'.

Anything coming out of his piehole, I want independent verification of.

LawDog

 

[P95Carry]

Are there other sources that confirm this?

 

[xinul22]

during the days before the fall of the communist blocs, the East German secret police (the Stasi) kept detailed files and records of every East German citizen, including biometrics information such as saliva, fingerprints, hair samples, etc. They would surreptiously obtain them by going thru ppl's trash, keeping used utensils from public restaurants, etc.

same thing here except the US federal government is doing it more efficiently

 

[Kruzr]

From Ron Paul:
Paul Denounces National ID Card

December 7, 2004

Washington, DC- Congressman Ron Paul today denounced the national ID card provisions contained in the intelligence bill being voted on in the U.S. House of Representatives, while urging his colleagues to reject the bill and its new layers of needless bureaucracy.

“National ID cards are not proper in a free society,†Paul stated. “This is America, not Soviet Russia. The federal government should never be allowed to demand papers from American citizens, and it certainly has no constitutional authority to do so.â€

“A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American,†Paul continued. “History shows that governments inevitably use such power in harmful ways. The 9-11 commission, whose recommendations underlie this bill, has called for internal screening points where identification will be demanded. Domestic travel restrictions are the hallmark of authoritarian states, not free nations. It is just a matter of time until those who refuse to carry the new licenses will be denied the ability to drive or board an airplane.â€

“Nationalizing standards for drivers licenses and birth certificates, and linking them together via a national database, creates a national ID system pure and simple. Proponents of the national ID understand that the public remains wary of the scheme, so they attempt to claim they’re merely creating new standards for existing state IDs. Nonsense! This legislation imposes federal standards in a federal bill, and it creates a federalized ID regardless of whether the ID itself is still stamped with the name of your state.â€

“Those who are willing to allow the government to establish a Soviet-style internal passport system because they think it will make us safer are terribly mistaken,†Paul concluded. “Subjecting every citizen to surveillance and screening points actually will make us less safe, not in the least because it will divert resources away from tracking and apprehending terrorists and deploy them against innocent Americans! Every conservative who believes in constitutional restraints on government should reject the authoritarian national ID card and the nonsensical intelligence bil itself.â€

 

[The Rabbi]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050116/ap_on_re_us/national_id_card_8

Maybe people should read the above news story first before deciding we are living in the worst combo of Nazi Germany and Stalin's Gulag.
This is a proposal.
It requires a year and a half of discussion
States can opt out
There is no agreement on biometrics
It is probably unConstitutional since DLs are state-issued documents and it is up to states to set their own laws.
It will be expensive to implement, an argument states will use.

I have noticed that paranoia about the government shows a certain monotony, whether it comes from the Left or the Right.

 

[LadySmith]

I have noticed that paranoia about the government shows a certain monotony, whether it comes from the Left or the Right.

I don't think it's paranoia when we have a government that bears watching as closely as it would like to watch us. It's simply being vigilant.

 

[alan]

Rabbi:

Have you ever noticed how "the feds" persuade the states to "opt in" via the threat of withholding federal funds for this, that or some other thing?

I don't know if you have placed me on the Left or the Right, but the following comes to mind ether way. Government that does not trust it's citizens likely does not deserve the trust of it's citizens, and it matters not regarding whether any particular administration is Democratic or Republican.

Law Dog and P95Carry:

Without regard to Rick Stanley, the legislation has been passed, so far as I know. Stanley could be right, wrong or indifferent, that legislation has still been passed and signed.

 

[Luckyorwhat]

Wasn't it passed on the 24th of December 2004? I could swear I remember that. Also interesting is the passage of a similar scheme in Britain.

Food for thought for all those who support these cards, I will appeal to your sense of selfishness:

If a mugger wants your pin-number, what do you do? You give it to him. If a mugger wants your thumb-print, what do you do? Uh-huh, kiss that baby good-bye.

And furthermore, you'll never get away with anything, ever again. Getting away with stuff is part of being free. In East Germany almost every person ratted out someone, at some time, because they knew they couldn't get away with anything. BTW they kept clothing samples of 'trouble-makers' and packs of dogs to hunt down people down.

 

[Selfdfenz]

If you lost this card someplace me thinks you would officially and immediatley be SOL until you got it back or replaced it. Also, as I get older I have been known to forget things. Amazing I know, but true.

If I let my TX DL expire, is my Mark of the Beast Card invalid. By default are my other plastic fantastics dead temporarily, say like my debit card. That could make picking up a loaf of bread a real PITA.

If an officer stops me with a valid CHL in my wallet but my M-o-the-B card has expired can he arrest me for being an illegally armed non-person. Can he take my firearm on the spot. In TX you have to have a DL and a CHL and both have to be vaild to carry IIRC.

I know it's at the discussion stage now but I think this is a terrible idea in so many ways.

 

[The Rabbi]

I know it's at the discussion stage now but I think this is a terrible idea in so many ways.

I agree. Probably why I doubt it would happen. The bio stuff would just be way too expensive to implement. The economics of any situation will dictate the outcome.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Why don't they just tattoo barcodes on our foreheads and follow our movements with satellite based laser barcode readers?

Edit: Dumb idea, unless they outlawed ballcaps and cowboy hats.

 

[Selfdfenz]

Rabbi

The cost issue sure is a real one.
Not sure the retinal scans are cheap or not cheaps but one thing for sure...DNA on this scale will not be cheap. Actually none of it is worth a whoop if the partol car in the street doesn't have a retinal scanner on deck to make sure what's on the Beast cards matchs. Pretty penny that will cost.

I think the serfs could make a very strong claim that the same DNA technologies used for criminalistics testing and parenatge testing not be used for this system. If they decided to do that it would just be a naked step that the path being selected for us is one from serfdom to slavedom.

Sadly I'm not sure a sufficient number of my fellow Americanos are sharp enough to understand the issues and the downsides.

JM2cents

S-

 

[Deavis]

In TX you have to have a DL and a CHL and both have to be vaild to carry IIRC.

Only if you are driving do you need both. The CHL is the only document you need to carry in Texas, the lawbook in front of me doesn't mention the DL at all.

Selfdfenz-
Don't fool youself by thinking it is too expensive to be implemented. Used to be that searching a single set of fingerprints required a skilled operator spending minutes staring at cards. Now it is done in a fraction of the time it used to take with a computer. The only thing that is missing is demand, once it is there the products will emerge and eventually become dirt cheap.

Remember when 1MB of memory was over a grand? Remember when a DVD burner cost a couple grand? The computational power at our fingertips has made our research productivity, in last 50 years, look exponential compared to the rest of human history.

I'm not sure how much biology background you have but we are amazingly good at taking DNA apart and quickly analyzing it in a lab. We get better and better at it every single day. It will not be long before you see devices that can quickly pull your identity from a non-invasive test in the field. The process of unravelling and slicing DNA is well-known and continually being refined. As long as there is grant money out there for a project like this, someone will take it to keep their research going.

 

[alan]

LawDog wrote:

Do a THR search of 'Rick Stanley'.

Anything coming out of his piehole, I want independent verification of.

LawDog

P95Carry wrote:
Are there other sources that confirm this?

******

Gentlemen:

Without regard to whether or not Mr. Stanley is a charter memeber of the Tinfoil Hat Brigade, or simply a worry wart, or just plain nuts, it remains that the legislation he mentioned has been passed and signed into law.

As to the independent verification and or the other sources for confirmation that you mention, or ask about, I repeat myself, the legislation has been passed and signed. While what ever might actually lie at the end of the road that we do seem to be traveling is open to question, the fact that we have headed down that road is not, at least it isn't from where I sit.

Selfdenz:

Do I understand you correctly, that is to say that in Texas, absent a drivers license, one cannot obtain a carry permit, or are you saying that while carrying, ones permit and drivers license must be on ones person. In the first instance, what happens to that person or those people who do not have drivers licenses?

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

This sounds like a State's-rights issue.

 

[Luckyorwhat]

Alan, what is the date of passage? Was it Christmas eve?

 

[Selfdfenz]

Deavis and alan,

You are 100% correct. My mind was on driving while carrying when I was typing.

Deavis
"I'm not sure how much biology background you have but we are amazingly good at taking DNA apart and quickly analyzing it in a lab. We get better and better at it every single day. It will not be long before you see devices that can quickly pull your identity from a non-invasive test in the field. The process of unravelling and slicing DNA is well-known and continually being refined. As long as there is grant money out there for a project like this, someone will take it to keep their research going."


"we are amazingly good" that may well be the detail the Devil is in...

I follow the technology development trends pretty closely. The CODIS loci still require about a 3 hr amplification. That is in addition to the time required for extraction, and quantitation would be nice if you want it to run and run well the first time. Extraction and quant aren't the stumbling blocks. Amplification and detection are. Of course we could go for something other than the FBI loci. That disconnects 2mill samples cross reference-wise from the get-go but it also makes the new db a non-criminalistics one at least for a time. Would the feds pay to float more than one kind of db? I bet the momentum will be for one system and one close to what they have already.

Current state of the art is lab bench top not police cruiser trunk and my guess is, at minimum, we are talking 10 years to make the package that small. One of the benefits for big platform testing is the economy of scale. On demand, point of collection testing usually is more expensive but it is an absolute obligation if DNA biometrics are going anywhere. If the need justifies the cost then you do it but in a project this massive the volumes exceed any on demand, point of collection testing I can dream of. If it weren't a biological test, maybe so.
Retinal scans and finger prints they could do now easily and cheaply. Neither is definitive and would be easier to defeat IMO than DNA.

Then if you want it in every patrol car that's serious $$$. Nothing I've seen technology wise is that robust today. Could be wrong but...GATACA is over the horizon. If you are talking real time PCR for this application it's just not there yet. Newly developed real time apps for diagnostics and some other things I can see but human identity...multi-locus...c/ RT PCR in the trunk of a patrol car or Jimmy down in the Rio Grande, I'll have to see it to believe it. Your talking new science, not improvements on the stuff we have. New science requires money but also time, lots of time.

Best

S-

 

[TamThompson]

Actually, I believe the national ID card was contained as part of the so-called "Intelligence Bill" that passed late last year, in November. Ron Paul says the Intel bill contained the gist of Patriot Act 2.

As to other sources, Ron Paul and Alex Jones are saying it.

Glad my Texas DL doesn't expire until 2010. CHL, OTOH, is 2007, but that should be OK.

Agree with Ladysmith.

I do not want a national ID card with biometrics. There is nothing wrong with my Texas DL. If it ain't broke...

OH--and another thing I heard on the Alex Jones show: none of this required-national-ID-card-biometrics thing applies to illegal aliens in the US. They're EXEMPT from it, on the grounds that it is just plain mean to deny them work because they don't have a DL.

Anyone besides me have a huge problem with instituting a national ID card for citizens, to cut down on terrorism, but making an exemption for ILLEGAL ALIENS??? It's reverse discrimination, I tell ya, when citizens have less rights than illegals. Grrr.... So, it wouldn't have stopped the 9/11 hijackers, but we have to do it anyway.

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi RileyMC

Why don't they just tattoo barcodes on our foreheads and follow our movements with satellite based laser barcode readers?

Edit: Dumb idea, unless they outlawed ballcaps and cowboy hats.

I visited the UK last year, and every time I went into a pub I was asked by the person behind the bar to remove my baseball cap. The reason? CCTV monitors.


I used to live in the UK; it's barely recognisable now

 

[JohnBT]

My momma would still smack me today if I dared to wear a hat indoors.

Meanwhile, what's the big deal about this national i.d. stuff? The North won the War Between the States and states' rights bit the dust. Are y'all saying the South was right?

John