Some of these FFL dealers are acting like Big Govt

[nathan]

I was talking to one yesterday and he mention of a crtieria to report someone to BATF . If a certain buyer is acting suspicious and buying handguns of a particular type and caliber at alarming numbers in a short period of time, then thats a red flag. Let say , two or three pistols in one purchase and then several more in a few days.

Now my beef here is, what if the buyer is a collector and impulsive buyer and just love to acquire as he likes, and here comes BATF agent knocking at his door asking about why he has all these purchases in these time frames, would that be a violation of one's gun rights to buy , own and sell as one pleases?

I know FFL dealers have to follow the guidelines set by the BATF but some could be overzealous and acting beyond . Whats your take on this ? In case this happens to any gunowner, would you call for protection of your Second and Fourth Amendments?

 

[Bubba613]

Under your scenario no one is being denied anything or infringed on anything.
There is a big difference between someone acting as collector or whatever and someone acting in a criminal manner.
fwiw, I am familiar with a case where the buyer came in every month or two and bought every Beretta 92 and Px4 the dealer had in stock. Every one, every time.
While those are fine guns I would hardly consider them "collectible" in any way. And in fact the only "collection" he was doing was to arm gangs in Texas.

 

[Bubbles]

By law FFL's must complete and submit an ATF Form 3310.4 if a non-licensee purchases two or more handguns in five business days. Failure to do so = bad juju for the FFL. The original goes to the ATF, one copy to the state police, and the dealer must retain a copy for five years.

FWIW if someone in the shop is acting suspicious we contact the local cops, not the ATF, as the response time of the locals is quite a bit better. Fortunately we've only had to do that twice, and it wasn't because the perps were buying a lot of handguns at once.

 

[kanook]

If you buy two or more handguns at once (from an FFL) your name is sent in on a multi. pistol purchase form.

 

[22-rimfire]

Most individuals don't know about the 2 or more handgun rule until they do it. Technically I believe it applies to total handgun purchases in a week and could be from different FFL dealers. Happens at collector gun shows. But the dealer has no way to know if you purchased something on the same day from another dealer.

I remember a dealer kind of groaning about it with one of my purchases of collector guns. He made just a transfer fee for the deal. Only time it has ever happened for me. Some dealers don't want to do the paperwork and would prefer you spread out the purchases (transfers) a little. In most cases, it is not a big deal for me to spread the purchases out, but at a gunshow it would be an inconvenience.

I'm not particularly bothered if the BATFE checks. I don't know if they do. It is not a barrier to purchase. It was intended to help law enforcement spot larger volume purchases that may be an indicator of intended use.

 

[dogtown tom]

nathan: ...I know FFL dealers have to follow the guidelines set by the BATF but some could be overzealous and acting beyond . Whats your take on this ? In case this happens to any gunowner, would you call for protection of your Second and Fourth Amendments?

Nothing in the Second or Fourth Amendment forces a gun dealer to sell you a snap cap, much less a firearm. Federal law DOES however, require a licensed firearms dealer to follow ATF regulations regarding the sale, transfer and recordkeeping of firearms. Whether you like it or not is immaterial.

You are pretty vague about what some dealer is doing that is "overzealous and acting beyond". Could you be a bit more specific?

22-rimfire:...Technically I believe it applies to total handgun purchases in a week and could be from different FFL dealers...

No. The Multiple Sale of Handgun Form 3310.4 is only in regards to multiple handgun purchases from a single dealer. Even ATF doesn't make the dealer guess how many handguns a customer buys from the store down the street.

 

[docpadds]

Even ATF doesn't make the dealer guess how many handguns a customer buys from the store down the street.

Dont give them any ideas.

 

[22-rimfire]

Thanks for the revision in my knowledge. It is not something that I deal with often. I certainly have purchased handguns from multiple dealers in a single day or single week. Unfortunately, that could easily be detected during the NICS check if they want to add the programing.

 

[dogtown tom]

22-rimfire: ...I certainly have purchased handguns from multiple dealers in a single day or single week. Unfortunately, that could easily be detected during the NICS check if they want to add the programing.

Supposedly: (from http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm)

Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day.

If we trust that NICS does delete transaction info as stated, such tracking could only be legal if done on a single day.








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[jonboynumba1]

If you buy two or more handguns at once (from an FFL) your name is sent in on a multi. pistol purchase form.

correct...I'm actually filling out some right now! My bud has bought multiples for YEARS...trades heavily! Gun of the WEEK and sometimes DAY member....he's only been interviewed once by the ATF and he's been like that since he was 21 (late 30's now) HUNDREDS of guns from this shop alone and I know for a fact almost every other one in town to...he's an LEO and has run a LE training school for a local university here as well...if THAT guy only gets called ONCE for an interview....I seriously wouldn't worry about it! They basically asked why he had so many guns and where he got the money for them....he said I like guns and I trade them back and forth into the next one I want so it's not really all that much...I get bored of them and want different ones...they basically said OK thanks...they aren't looking for you and me or him....they are looking for the real traffickers and gun traders that ARE buying and reselling guns to people that don't need to have guns and CAN'T buy them at a store with a background check. If I bought 20 hipionts 2 and 3 at a time last month I think I'd expect a visit...that doesn't strike me as wrong or a problem...because I'd rather the guy I end up facing in the parkinglot next week have a club or knife and not a 9mm...but if it must be a 9mm....LORD -I hope it's a hipoint! -LOL