Some questions on building/buying a High Power Service Rifle

[Jenrick]

I'm looking for specifics on what to look for in a Service Rifle for high power competition. The obvious basics such as a fixed stock, 20" barrel, etc that are governed by the rules I'm aware of. I'm more curious as to what other things to look for.

National match sights seem like a must have, to get the 1/2 or 1/4 MOA adjustments. Is it worth paying the extra to get 1/4 MOA as a beginner or is that something that'll be more useful later in my shooting career? All the descriptions I'm reading about NM sights list them as having 200 and 600 yd apertures. What exactly do they mean by that? I know a normal A2 sight has different apertures, are they basically saying the same thing?

Weighted hand guards and butt stocks. With a heavy bull barrel, do I need more weight up front with the hand guards, or is just a personal preference? I can see the need for the weighted butt stock, I figure it would be better to do it myself to match my position and rifle.

Free float hand guards. I've seen a lot of free float tubes, but none look like service rifle hand guards, suggestions on where to find a set?

Triggers, oh so many triggers. I had the chance to try a two stage trigger at my first match, and wow it was great. I'm also very fond of my Rem 700's single stage that's been worked on. I'm guessing that it's just a personal choice? Does anyone one brand of trigger have anything over the competition in terms of features, warranty, etc?

Other then the trigger it seems like almost everything that needs to be tuned is in the upper receiver. A lot of places have good prices on just a match upper, would it work to get one and mount it to a non-match lower? Is there anything in the lower receiver that really needs to be tuned other then the trigger to ensure optimum performance?

I'm currently thinking about putting the majority of my money towards a match upper from some place like White Oak or the like. If there's really nothing other then the trigger in the lower to improve on, then I don't see the point in spending too much extra on the lower, when I can put a good trigger in a cheap lower with no problems.

So if anyone's looking to sell a gently used upper...

-Jenrick

 

[Rottweiler]

I'd say go with the 1/4 minute sights. The difference you will get is instead of moving your POI from 9 ring @3o'clock to 9 ring @9o'clock with 1 click of 1/2 minute sights you'll get an X-ring POI with 1/4 minute sights.

Weights are a matter of personal preference. Find what feels good and works for you.

Float tube. A service rifle float tube fits UNDER stock handguards that's why none look like handguards. Bushmaster and DPMS sell them, I'm sure others do too. Look for the one(s) that say DCM in the description. it won't look like the rest.

Single or 2 stage is a matter of personal preference. So is brand. Try a few before you decide on one. I've tried a bunch and I like my Giessele.

My buddy who is about to shoot his first highpower match this Sunday in Austin(like you just did) is in the same boat as you. I steered him away from a high end upper for his first one. He (and possibly you) won't shoot to the level that a White Oak upper will for a few years. Why wear out an expensive barrel without being able to wring the accuracy it is capable of out of it? By the time he's good enough to shoot to the barrel's capability it will be a worn out barrel. I told him to save a few bucks on a cheap(er) barrel/upper and spend it on ammo and practice.

You're right about the lower. As long as they are milspec they are pretty much the same.

 

[Dave P]

1/4 minute sights is smart.

And I don't know your budget, but I was very pleased with a complete rock river NM rifle - about $1k out the door. You don't need to spend a fortune for great performance.

 

[P-32]

Normally I would agree with Rottweiler but not in this case. AR's are much different than a shooting a 30. I have 2 shooting buddies who both bought RRA NM rifles. These have Wilson barrels and are a pretty good rifle for High Power out of the box. One made master in 2 years and the other is knocking pretty hard on master. The barrels are hardly shot out. About the only place I can gain any points on these guys is offhand and slow prone. It all comes down to who has the better day.

I would check out White Oak. http://whiteoakarms.com

I would get depending on your bank account a upper from one of these guys. I like WOP as John builds a very nice upper. WOA builds a more affordable upper without the pinned sights. I would think a 1 in 7 twist would be best, but no less than a 1 in 8.

I would get 1/4 X 1/4 moa sights both windage and elev.

John will send 2 apertures for the rear sight. One will be a .36 the other a .42. I use the .36 for all ranges on a bright and sunny day. The .42 is used for cloudy/rainy days. I also got a .46 with my first upper but it remains unused.

John has a few different barrels. He likes the Pac-Nor as they do shoot really well. For another $80.00 you can have a Kreiger. On the first upper I ordered, I wanted a Kreiger but John asked why, so I bought the Pac-Nor and I'm very happy with it. I ordered another upper when I felt like my Pac-Nor might be getting close and got a Kreiger. I have yet to post the same scores with the Kreiger as I have with the Pac-Nor but I think this is because the Kreiger rifle is pocessed. (weird things have happend to me which just don't happen.) I do know it will clean sitting though.

White Oak Arms also sells an upper with a Wilson Barrel for less than a WOP. Same company just 2 different guys.

You can also get a RRA 2 stage already tuned by John for $120.00.

Good luck.

 

[30Cal]

The formula is pretty easy. Get a 1:7 or 1:8 heavy barrel and put a float tube on it.

I prefer 1/2 MoA sights. There are occasions when 1/4's would be nice, but usually it just means you have twice as many clicks to count. If you can see a change in conditions, it's worth at least a 1/2minute on the sight.

The 10-ring is at least 2MoA across. A half minute click is not going to send you from a nine on one side to a nine on the other.

I'd go with a geiselle (if you can stomach the $$$) or a tuned RRA trigger.

I've got lead in the buttstock and lead out front. 14-15lbs total weight is pretty typical. I know a top-ranked guy that shoots a 27lb AR (he's got extra lead in his slowfire mag), but he's unique.

I bought a Colt HBAR upper used. Someone had made an attempt to build a SR upper out of it but had locktited the floattube way out of alignment. It took me about an hour to pull it apart and put it back together right; getting past the red loktite took most of that time. It took another hour to fit the rear sight (Accuracy Speaks). It takes about $40 with of tools and zero aptitude to build a good shooting upper from a headspaced bolt/barrel.

 

[Hoser]

1/2 minute sight when you are starting out. Once you have the game figured out consider 1/4 minute sights.

13-14 pounds is about enough for me or I get tired too fast in offhand.

Any custom barrel is fine. Only when you make Master or High master will it matter enough to see.

Most free float tubes are about the same.

Without any doubt, get a Geiselle trigger.

 

[gus3836]

I have RRA DCM and have the stock weight are you allowed to use the weight in service rifle class? The rifle is an awsome shooter hoping to shoot at Camp Perry this year since I only live 45 minutes from there. Gus

 

[30Cal]

I have RRA DCM and have the stock weight are you allowed to use the weight in service rifle class? The rifle is an awsome shooter hoping to shoot at Camp Perry this year since I only live 45 minutes from there. Gus

Weight is definitely OK for SR.

 

[Jenrick]

Hmm after looking at what's out there I think I've got a plan:

Get the cheap 20" A4 style AR I was planning on before I started getting in high power. Add a Rock River NM carrying handle sight w/ 1/4MOA adjustments (tighter then I can hold, but I'm used to counting that many clicks with my rifle scopes). Shoot the barrel out and then put a white oak upper on, when I can hopefully take advantage of it.

Total cost I'm looking at currently is:

Complete 20" A4: 570
RRA NM Carrying handle sight: 160
Total: 730

I can then afford to get a set of backup low profile irons, and an EOtech and write this off on my taxes as a work expense

All joking aside, is saving a few hundred dollars worth it versus going with a NM rifle from somewhere that is a known shooter?

-Jenrick

 

[30Cal]

All joking aside, is saving a few hundred dollars worth it versus going with a NM rifle from somewhere that is a known shooter?

-Jenrick

If you're posting Master scores on a regular basis, I'd spend a little more. Otherwise, I don't think it's that bad a route. Just know that with the A4, you might run out of elevation at 600yds.

 

[Canuck-IL]

Complete 20" A4: 570
RRA NM Carrying handle sight: 160
Total: 730

With the WOA NM upper being $695 with your choice of 1/4 or 1/2, I'd see that as the better way to go. You can pin the rear sight base for another $55. And no worries about enought elevation with the fixed rear handle.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/
/B

 

[Blackfork]

NM Rifles

Just a two-stage trigger in any lower and you are good to go. Ok, add a buttstock weight. Plus I grease the heck out of the spring to make it all smoother sounding. And a little chunky rubber wedge they make to keep the upper and lower from rattling.

I suggest a jewel. If it loses weight, which all triggers do, it's the easiest to reset. Other brands you have to pull the whole trigger and bend springs.

DPMS NM Upper fine with 1/2 or 1/4 sights. I've seen them on sale as low as 399.00. Bushmaster good. WOA certainly a great upper. Otherwise talk to Ken Gaby. He can probably put a float tube under the handguards you have and float your current barrel. It's good enough for a bit.

 

[Howard Roark]

Jenrick,

If you are going to shoot highpower save yourself the trouble and get the White Oak upper. The detachable handle you are contemplating is not a good option. You will not have enough elevation at 600 yards.

The Wilson barrel on the cheaper WOA is fine. I and other shooters have shot 199 and 200 with them at 600 yards. I have three of them ordered now. It isn't worth my time to buy and then profile, chamber and attach a barrel nut on a Douglas for that price.

I wish you could come to the clinic at Ft. Benning Feb. 9-10. You would learn a great deal and have a good time.

 

[Jenrick]

Canuck-IL: The WOA upper is more then the entire AR I'm looking at, that's what's presenting the quandry.

Blackfork: Where the heck did you find a DMPS NM upper for 399.00? I'd be all over that. As my current AR is department issue doing anything to it, would be a no-no. I'll shoot Ken an email and see if he knows anyone looking to get a new upper or rifle though.

Howard Roark: RRA specifically designed the NM detachables to be able to shoot out to 600 for high power shooting. I haven't found any reviews so I don't know if they have actually managed to follow through on that premise though.

I'm going to re-asses finances tomorrow and see what I can break lose to possibly fund this venture.

-Jenrick

 

[Blackfork]

Dpms

We saw them at Perry at DPMS a couple of years at that price, late in the week during CMP week. Can't remember what they were last year but it was Rick Crawford said he couldn't build them at that price.

As long as you go RR, Armalite, WOA, DPMS, or Bushmaster you will be fine.

And someone around down there will loan you their backup rifle for a few matches I'm sure, so don't get in too big a hurry.