experienced opinions on high power rifle choices.

[hub]

Hey guys looking for a few rifle opinions for a new shooter in high power matches.

I was wondering, what should I start out with a match or service rifle? I know it's preference and I have shot the m16 pretty well at the range in my time as a Marine and obviously the m16/ar15 iron sight system is what I'm most familiar and comfortable with but I'm always willing to try a new type or style of rifle.

I don't own a cmp or nra legal ar 15 but I do own a scoped dpms lo pro classic. I bought this three years ago as a cheaper varmint rifle set up that I could upgrade as needed. I've added a free float tube and a super sniper 10x and it really is a sub moa shooter if I do my part but with short radius irons, the sixteen inch heavy barrel, and 1x9 twist rate I just don't feel like it would be competitive as a match rifle, especially at longer ranges.

So that's my first option, convert my lo pro upper into a match upper. What I had in mind was installing a WOA 26inch Wilson match barrel/bolt and free float tube. I could go with other barrels krieger, shilien, lilja etc, but the Wilson is cheaper, already fitted with a gas block and tube. It gets good reviews from what I have read and the front of the barrel is already machined for a match front sight. I don't know to much about match irons but I'm guessing that would probably add another few hundred dollars. So with this set up I'm guessing $600-$700 give or take.

Second I could buy a match upper from WOA or build the same set up but use a new upper and matching bolt for a few hundred more and keep my varmint rifle upper as is for plinking and varmint matches.

Next would be to build a service rifle upper myself. I do really like the WOA service uppers but I hear the wait time is a few months or more and I think I could build it myself a little cheaper anyway. Basically with this I would start from a stripped a2 upper, add NM sights, NRA legal free float tube, over a WOA Wilson barrel with matching bolt. I think I could do this set up for around $500-$600.

And the last option I also own a M1 Garand. It's in pretty good shape but not numbers matching. The barrel is in decent shape but it's not a one hole rifle by any means. My plan was to leave it stock and just have some fun shooting a few Garand matches with it as is. I could shoot this in service rifle but I feel to be competitive it would need to be re barreled and accurized. I'm guessing for good work it would cost about the same or probably more than building an ar upper.

I really like shooting the Garand but I'm kinda afraid I'm going to end up dumping a bunch of money into it expecting a sub moa shooter and ending up with just ok 1-2 moa rifle when I could have kept it stock and built a very accurate ar. Also the added cost of reloading 30 06 over .223 is a concern since unfortunately I am on a budget and I will need a lot of practice.

So any opinions? Sorry about the long post.

 

[Howard Roark]

I suggest you start out with the service rifle option, with your prior experience with the SR you will advance quickly. There is a lot to get used to on the match rifle setup. Mainly figuring out all the different ways to adjust the sights which will set you back another $400, give or take.

By starting out with the SR you can work toward the goal of becoming Distinguished. That should be the goal of every new high power shooter. I made the mistake of starting out with a MR and had to make the transition to SR to get my DR after I realized how important that little badge is. Shoot the Garand in vintage matches for fun.

Good luck with which ever route you take.

 

[hub]

Thanks Howard I appreciate your input. I was really leaning towards shooting service rifle class and putting together my own rifle. Maybe later on when I have a little more money to spend build a match rifle if I feel the need.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

if you really plan on getting serious about it follow the advice given already. I bought a space rifle while I was still trying to go distinguised but did not really shoot it much.
getting your badge is a truely great feeling. trust us on that.

 

[hub]

Thanks Jon, what kind and how much practice should I be doing? I know the more the better but I am still pretty busy with work, a 2 1/2 year old, and on a budget for reloading so rounds are not unlimited for me.

 

[Howard Roark]

Dryfire, dryfire, dryfire as much as possible. A couple of times a week at least. Done properly it builds muscle memory, the ability to call your shots and most importantly, confidence. Set up a scaled target to the distance you have at home and get into gear. Be honest about your shot calls and concentrate on breaking all your shots in the black at first. Practice like you are shooting a real string of fire. Offhand is where it's at. Matches are won on your feet and lost at the 600 yardline.

There are several drills to help with offhand practice. Practice coming into the bull from all the different clock number positions. Another is to break the shot then without putting the rifle down move the front sight back into the 10 ring and pull the triger again, the hammer will not fall the second time. This forces follow through and helps to prolong your dwell time in the 10 ring.

If the sight has too much movement and will not stay somewhere on the black when you mount the rifle, take it down and start over, no matter how many times it may take. Never develope the habit of breaking a shot that you are not 100% confidant in. The most important thing I ever learned was that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t.

 

[hub]

Sounds like a good idea Howard I guess I should go ahead and start snapping in as much as possible. It's been almost eight years since the last time I shot the Marine course so I'm pretty rusty with all my shooting positions too.

 

[can]

+1 on Mr. Roark's post. I would add get an NRA rule book.

 

[TimRB]

I would suggest taking your M1 to a match or two, just for the experience. While you're there, your number one priority is to find the top AR shooters and ask them where they got their rifles. Don't try to build a rifle yourself until you've talked to an experienced shooter in your area. If you do, you likely will spend more than you have to and end up with something that is not what you need.

Tim

 

[Brian Dale]

I'm not experienced like these guys; my "experience" is only of being a novice-grade HP shooter. I'm very happy with my production SR upper from WOA: 1/4 x 1/4 rear sight and pinned rear sight base. John Holliger was very pleasant to deal with, too.

 

[skidooman603]

+1 to all the above. My WOA upper is the MOST accurate .223 I have ever squeezed a trigger on. Off Hand Practice ..Off Hand Practice...Off Hand Practice...Off Hand Practice

 

[blue_ridge]

I have a nice match rifle I am considering selling if you're interested. I have a 7 month pregnant wife and too many other hobbies. I took a Win 70 long action and a McMillan A2 to an old HighPower Master competitor and he put a 26" Krieger fluted bull barrel on it with 9" twist and match chamber. He also smoothed out the trigger and it breaks about like a 4.5# Jewel. A hand stop rail with hand stop installed. RPA tracker sights too. Let me know, I'll let it go for $1100. It cost me considerably more than that to build and I've fired 20 rounds of break in and another 20 of load development. Have a beginning idea of a load it likes.

 

[hub]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

blue_ridge I appreciate the offer and I will think about it but to be honest I'm still kinda leaning towards a service rifle at this point. That does sound like a great deal though. Maybe I should go through my safe and consider thinning out the herd.

Good luck and congratulations for the addition to the family. My son is two and half now and I know first hand what kind of strain they can be on the budget and social life but it is totally worth it.

 

[rskent]

Hub
If I were you, I would find a reduced coarse match in your area.
Talk to the match director. They will most likely let you shoot what
you have, or loan you a gun. Shoot a few matches then decide
what is right for you.
Steve

 

[35 Whelen]

I began shooting HP in earnest last February. I've been shooting a reduced course HP match here. I use an old K-31 to which I added a Lyman 48 micrometer sight and a Lyman 17 globe front. I shoot cast bullet handloads and I began shooting Expert scores in about 5 months. Had my Expert card in 9 mos. much to the chagrin of my AR shooting buddies. I figure if I can compete on this level with a 55 year old miltary surplus rifle, an AR would be a cinch.
Don't rule out a bolt rifle. I recently bought a mutt of an 03A3 on which someone had mounted a set of good Lyman sights and put in a light target stock and it's quite a shooter.

The rifle set me back about $300. For the money I save over an AR I can buy years worth of reloading components.
Also there is a gentlman who shoots our monthly matches and uses a quite plain looking Win. 70 with a heavy stainless barrel in .223. He wins practically every match and almost always shoots High Master scores.
Another who recently began attending shoots is a Distinguished Marksman and shoots a heavily modified Garand. He too is always at the top of the heap.
Howard, thanks for those dry-firing practice tips. I feel I've already reached a plateau and need lots of practice to move on to a Master classification. Your instruction will help.
35W

 

[skidooman603]

In reference to 35 Whelen, Yes at the end of the day it is still "the nut behind the bolt"

 

[redneckdan]

I would build a service rifle. WOA makes excellent barrels, wait time depends on where they are at in their production cycle. I would build a new upper versus dismantling the one you have. Building a service AR is not hard, get a decent barrel, a free float forend and make sure nothing binds. A decent trigger helps too.

 

[Howard Roark]

WOA makes excellent barrels, wait time depends on where they are at in their production cycle.

Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering carves out Johns WOA barrels and yes they are very good barrels.

 

[P-32]

I agree with all of the above posters. You can use your lower, might have to get a better trigger though. White Oak makes some great uppers. I have 2 White Oak Precesion uppers for my service rifles. I like the WOP's a little better than the WOA's because of barrel slection. WOA's are Wilson's and will take you to master no problem. The first WOP I had built used a 6 1/2 to 1 NorPac. The last upper I had built with a 7 to 1 Kreiger was a 16 week wait. Both uppers shoot anything I put in them, even the 52 Gr SMK's for reduced matches. The 6 1/2 PacNor shoots the 52's like a house of fire. I have had no jackets spun off which I expected with full power loads. Both love the 77's and 80 gr SMK's.

The pinned sights are nice and while I don't think about them when shooting, the solid rear sight the pins give is important. I would also go with the 1/4 X 1/4 moa sights. While 1/2 moa sights have worked shooting High Power for years, the WOA or WOP can use the 1/4 moa sights.

John's rear sights also come with a couple of aperture inserts. I use the .36 on bright sunny days and then use the .42 on cloudy days. I also have a .46 but have never needed to use one with a hole that big.

The Garand you have would offer some practice until you got a service rifle going. If you can control the recoil of a 30, you will have no problem with the AR. Shoot your John C. Garand matches as they are a hoot. Shoot the Garand in a couple of across the course matches as well.

 

[Jasper86]

my only suggestion is to continue teh dryfire practice.

i had 4 significant jumps in scores. first and foremost was getting a CLE-built upper with a 1:8 douglass barrel (sub MOA all day long)

second was the hardback shooting coat. helped my offhand by about 10 points once i got it adjusted to me.

third, and by far biggest gain, was the Geiselle trigger. i stopped struggling against a milspec single stage, and started breathing my shots into the black.

4th, and most useful (albeit most expensive) was my compass lake-built .22 upper. i can practice all weekend for roughly ~$15 in ammo (it prefers CCI S.V.), and it'll make ragged 1-hole 10shot groups on a reduced target if i do my part.

i started last year barely clearing 130-135 offhand, and rarely ever calling my shots on command.

i'm up to a 178-179 average, (best thus far being a 183-3x), and holding the 185-190 range on my rapids almost every single time. (im still lacking the experience to hold the 190 average @ 600, but i'm learning to watch the mirage more than the wind, which is helping)

1 more match, and i could get my expert card!


good luck man. its a HELL of a lot of fun ( i honestly think i might have more fun reloading and prepping for matches than i actually do shooting them! )

unfortunately, the rifle is the CHEAP end of highpower (as im learning). if you're not already doing it, reloading is a MUST.

 

[taliv]

cool jasper! good luck with that next match!


otoh, none of my jumps in scores was related to equipment changes.
my two main jumps in scores came from dry firing and figuring out how to get natural point of aim standing up

 

[hub]

Thanks for all the responses everyone I really appreciate your input and sharing your experiences with me. I can't hardly wait to get started.