Something rattling around in my 870?

[Wuss]

Yesterday after I cleaned and reassembled my 870 HD for the first time, I noticed something rattling around in there. If I hold the gun straight up and then tilt it down, sometimes it sounds like something is sliding around in there. And it doesn't just sound like the firing pin rattle I've heard on some of my handguns.

It sounded like it could've been coming from the stock, so this morning I removed the butt pad and the stock, made sure there was no debris in there, and then put it back together. The noise went away for a while, but then I dry fired it one time and the noise came back. What could this be? Is it normal? Did I break something by dry firing my 870?

 

[rreynol]

Dowel rod in the shell tube maybe? My mossberg had one in it that limited the capacity to whatever the hunting requirement is.

 

[41magsnub]

I'll ask the stupid question, did you put the magazine spring back in? If not that could be the follower sliding up and down the magazine tube.

 

[Pete409]

Wuss,

That rattling noise you hear in your 870 is the hammer flopping back and forth. It only does this when the hammer is in the fired (i.e. uncocked) position.

Cock the hammer and turn your gun back and forth as you did before and you will find that the noise disappears. That is due to the fact that when the hammer is cocked, it is restrained from moving.

Try it and let us know if that cured your rattling problem.

 

[Wuss]

Unfortunately that didn't seem to help. I think I'm going to have to get the trigger group out just to see what's going on in there. Can you safely remove the trigger group from an 870 without field stripping the gun?

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Stripping the gun is pretty easy. Just remove the barrel, remove the forearm and bolt and then all you have is the receiver, mag. tube, stock and trigger group. The two pins are easily tapped out with something soft like a chopstick and a wrench (I find hammers are too heavy, at least for mine).

But remove the mag. cap first and remove the plastic spring retainer. If that isnt there angle the gun down (remove the barrel first, it might fall off...) and if it falls out your missing the spring. If the retainer is in there take that out and take out the spring. There is probably a dowel or if its used a pencil or maybe even a stock magazine tube plug.

 

[Pete409]

Can you safely remove the trigger group from an 870 without field stripping the gun?

Heck yes. Just cock the hammer, close the bolt, put the safety in the ON position, and punch out the two pins. No need to remove the barrel and all that stuff.

 

[dfariswheel]

The rattling sound you hear IS coming from the stock.

Remington puts a small "Star" washer on the synthetic stock bolt to hold the main washers in place during assembly.
Occasionally the star washer is a little loose and it slides up and down the stock bolt making an annoying small rattling sound.

It isn't the hammer. When the hammer is down, it's pressing against the bolt under strong spring pressure.

Use a small #2 Phillips screw driver to remove the butt pad.
Soap or grease the shank of the screwdriver to prevent tearing out the holes in the pad.

Once the pad is off, use a large screwdriver to remove the stock bolt.
You'll find the small Star washer sliding up and down the stock bolt.
Remove it and lay it on a bench block.
Use a small ball peen hammer to lightly tap the center of the star washer to close the "teeth" and make it grip the bolt better.

Don't just remove it, since the main washers will then slide off the stock bolt, making reassembly difficult.

 

[Wuss]

Thanks for all the help guys.

Dfaris: I think you're right. I was wondering about that same thing earlier. The next time I have the stock off, I'll take a look at that washer. I'm not sure if it's worth taking the stock off again just to fix it right now. It's annoying, but my main concern was that something serious could've been wrong.

And if I'm going to take the stock off again, how hard is it to switch out the synthetic stock for a wood one? Are the wood stocks that Brownell's sells just straight drop-ins? No fitting required? I know you need a special tool to properly remove the fore end, but other than that is it all just drop-in?

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Have you taken the gun apart at all?

 

[Wuss]

Yeah. I've field stripped the gun several times, and I've had the stock off once. Now that I know the problem isn't likely to be anything serious, I'll probably just wait until I have it apart again to fix the rattle.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Did you check the magazine tube?

 

[average_shooter]

The rattling sound you hear IS coming from the stock.

Remington puts a small "Star" washer on the synthetic stock bolt to hold the main washers in place during assembly.
Occasionally the star washer is a little loose and it slides up and down the stock bolt making an annoying small rattling sound.

I don't really have much to add; just wanted to say that this happened to me, too, and freaked me out. My SOP is to strip a new firearm ASAP to get familiar with it and clean/lube. When I put the 870 back together I heard a rattle and quickly realized it was coming from the stock. Took me a few tries of removing and replacing the stock to figure it out, but dfariswheel's comment is directly in line with my findings.

 

[Wuss]

Deer: It definitely wasn't anything in the tube. The sound was still happening with the barrel, fore end, mag spring, and mag follower all removed. At this point I suspect that dfariswheel and average_shooter are correct.

Thanks again to everyone who replied.

 

[dfariswheel]

Wuss
The wood stock is a direct drop in.

All you need is the stock, a stock plate, and a wood stock bolt.
The wood stock uses a different bolt, and the stock plate is a flat plate that fits between the receiver and the stock.

Here's Brownell's parts page on the 870.
The stock plate is part Number 54:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sc...ngton®&model=870+Standard+Weight-+12,+16,+20+

 

[Pete409]

dfariswheel wrote:

It isn't the hammer. When the hammer is down, it's pressing against the bolt under strong spring pressure.

It might be doing that on some 870's but it isn't doing that on my 870 Wingmaster. I removed the trigger assembly to check on it and do some measuring on this. What my careful measurements tell me is that the face of the hammer is about 3/16" away from the rear of the firing pin when the hammer is in the uncocked position.

Further, If the hammer were "under strong spring pressure" in the uncocked position, it would push on the firing pin and make it protrude from the bolt face. I can shine a light down the barrel and clearly see that the firing pin is not protruding from the bolt face.

When the hammer is in the uncocked position, I can hold the gun up horizontally with the receiver right next to my ear. By gently rocking the barrel up and down slightly from the horizontal position, I can hear the faint "click" of metal on metal as the hammer rocks back and forth in the receiver . When I cock the hammer and do the exact same thing, there is no sound coming from the receiver. That is because the hammer is held firmly to the rear while in the cocked position.

This situation may or may not be what Wuss was hearing in his gun, but is definitely what is happening in my gun. I'm not saying that the slight "click" is hurting anything. I'm simply saying that it is happening.

One further piece of evidence of what is happening can be obtained by looking into the side of the receiver of a Remington 1100. The bolt and trigger assemblies of the 870 and 1100 are VERY similar. By looking into the side of the receiver where the cutout slot is for the operating (bolt) handle at the rear of the ejection port, you can clearly see the firing pin rocking back and forth and making that "clicking" noise when the hammer is in the uncocked position.

This information may or may not be of much importance to anyone, but it clearly shows me that on both my 870 and my 1100, the hammer will rock back and forth causing a slight "clicking" noise inside the receiver when the hammer is in the uncocked position.

 

[dfariswheel]

??????????

Both the Remington 870 and the 1100 and 11-87 have spring loaded firing pins.
They SHOULD NOT be "rocking back and forth".
The spring SHOULD hold the pin in the rearward position under spring pressure.
Also, the firing pin is shorter than the tunnel in the bolt.
The firing pin CANNOT be pushed toward the front an protrude since it's shorter than the bolt.
The Remington's., like most modern guns have an inertial-type firing pin.
In order for the pin to contact the primer and fire it, the firing pin MUST be driven forward with enough force to drive it forward and THROUGH the bolt to hit the primer.

I just took a look at my Police model. The hammer is in firm contact with the back of the bolt as it is in every 870 I ever owned.

I suggest you might want to have your guns looked at.
If the hammer is not making firm contact with the bolt, and the firing pins are lacking the spring, you have PROBLEMS.

 

[Zoogster]

I direct you to others who can help you. The sound however is in my experience normal with a few different 870s.

 

[dfariswheel]

Here's a link to an exploded view of the Remington 870.

http://www.stevespages.com/ipb-remington-870.html

Note parts 65 and 66.
The firing pin is spring loaded, it SHOULD NOT be free to just slide back and forth.

If your 870 firing pin is freely sliding back and forth SOMETHING IS WRONG.
Either the spring is broken, (which did happen occasionally with the early springs), OR the spring has been removed.

I was a gunsmith for 30 years. I also direct you to the Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual on the Remington shotguns.

 

[Pete409]

dfariswheel wrote:

Both the Remington 870 and the 1100 and 11-87 have spring loaded firing pins.
They SHOULD NOT be "rocking back and forth".

HELLO! please re-read what I wrote. I wrote it several times. I said that the HAMMER rocks back and forth on my gun..... not the FIRING PIN. It would be nice if people would read something carefully before beginning to criticize it.

 

[Pete409]

dfariswheel wrote:

If your 870 firing pin is freely sliding back and forth SOMETHING IS WRONG.
Either the spring is broken, (which did happen occasionally with the early springs), OR the spring has been removed.

I was a gunsmith for 30 years.

Apparently being a gunsmith did nothing to improve your reading skills. I have said several times that it is the HAMMER that rocks back and forth.

 

[dfariswheel]

Pete409

HELLO I was answering zoogster, who says HIS firing pin is freely moving back and forth.
In your case, you might want to take a look at YOUR reading skills, and a look at improving your manners.

The HAMMER also should NOT be free to rock back and forth.
Unless your main spring or the spring guide has been replaced with a non-factory part, or the spring has lost tension, the hammer SHOULD have spring tension on it enough to keep the hammer firmly against the back of the bolt.

Please DON'T take my word for it.
Go down to any gun shop and examine a few 870's. You will not find a gun with a loose hammer rocking back and forth.

 

[Pete409]

dfariswheel,

Here (below) is the EXACT QUOTE that you wrote in post #17 above. Zoogster didn't post in this thread until post #18. Do you have a crystal ball that tells you what Zoogster is going to post even before he posts it? It sure seems to me that you are referring to firing pins "rocking back and forth".

Both the Remington 870 and the 1100 and 11-87 have spring loaded firing pins.
They SHOULD NOT be "rocking back and forth".

 

[Zoogster]

As mentioned there can be a few causes, so I digress.
Others can help you better.

 

[Pete409]

Zoogster wrote:

Well I have checked a couple and it is in fact the firing pin and the spring that move back and forth creating that noise

.

Zoogster, my Wingmaster was made in 1983 and I'm certain that the firing pin doesn't make any rattling noise. On my gun, it's the hammer that makes a slight "click" noise when the hammer is in the uncocked position. Perhaps the ones you checked are the newer models???? Did you try it with the hammer in the cocked position?

I'm really puzzled by a gun that would have the firing pin rattling around loosely. The purpose of the firing pin return spring is to keep the firing pin rearward except at the instant that the hammer drives it forward to hit the primer. If the firing pin is rattling around inside the bolt, then it would seem that the firing pin return spring is not doing its job. Any thoughts on this?