Something to Ponder

[CDW4ME]

Less frequently, I have seen some people say, I'm not willing to dress around a gun; hallelujah, the truth.

I'm not willing to dress around a full size pistol every waking moment of my life. Is it really a cop out to say a small pistol "meets my needs" walking from the breakfast table to my desk? I'm not even willing to dress around a full size pistol to go to the corner store and get a cup of coffee.

You are covered by the last line in my quote.

You are armed, as am I.
The difference is I try to carry a handgun I'd prefer to defend myself with anywhere, everywhere.
Example: My Glock 17 gets carried to the store and nearly everywhere else not just in area of greater anticipated threat.

Unlike this:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...h-in-todays-world.914784/page-9#post-12523556
If multiple attackers come into my house right now, my 32 revolver isn't going to do much good. Hopefully I can get to my BHP or AR by then.
And I'm not bothering with a full size pistol and 15 rounds outside the house, either. Attacks from multiple attackers are not so likely that I'm not willing to leave my house without a full size gun.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bucking-the-trend-capacity.918515/#post-12613561
Primarily, most of the time, I'm carrying a 32 mag 6 shot.
When I am traveling, my primary carry gun is usually a 15 shot or so 9mm, like a Beretta 92D or Sigma.

As your perceived anticipated threat increases (traveling) you willingness to carry a larger more capable handgun does to.

My philosophy is try to carry a handgun I'd prefer to defend myself with and I prefer a handgun I can shoot quickly, accurately, repeatedly.
Using your example of a snub and a Beretta 92 the obvious choice is get both.
Why both? Spoiler: anticipated threat, statistics, nor location are factored.
Snub in pocket affords option of putting hand on it without revealing you are carrying, options are good.
Having the Beretta (example) on belt affords you the option of a more advantageous handgun if you have to defend yourself.

Rather than thinking statistics, odds, anticipated threat, think - If I had to defend myself while I'm at ______ what handgun would I want in hand?
If I had the options of a snub or a Beretta 92 my answer would be the Beretta 92 every time.

You are doing better than most already, carrying whenever you leave the house, being armed for a "quick trip to the store".
But, CDW4ME advocates next level, carrying that "travel gun" everywhere.
That said, I'm not naïve and realize next level is a place most aint willing to go to.

 

[JDeere]

But, CDW4ME advocates next level, carrying that "travel gun" everywhere.
That said, I'm not naïve and realize next level is a place most aint willing to go to.

Agree and To each his own but you see it all the time. People tend to be hooked on the 7 yd thing but at least they carry...

 

[wayneinFL]

I'm not really hung up on the 7 yard thing.

I can keep a snubby or micro 9 on a small silhouette at 25 yards, with a reasonable amount of practice. I'm sure I could do better if I practiced more, but it's rare I can break away lately.

I compromise. I'm not willing to drive 2-3 hours for a 1 hour range trip where I can shoot beyond 25 yards.

The small gun and my moderate proficiency with it is a compromise that I'm personally comfortable with considering the amount of time I spend out of the house, which is almost zero, because I'm stuck here dog sitting. The most I leave my house or my car is about 20 minutes during an entire work week.

Any handgun is a compromise, even the full size guns. I don't know that any of you are taking your rifle grocery shopping, so everyone is making a compromise here. Except maybe the guy here that can hit a coyote in the head at 96 yards, which was a rare enough occurrence he thought to go measure the exact distance.

 

[fastbolt]

...

Good summary article of frequently discussed points at THR (except the 25 yard thing).

Yep. I often used one variation or another of this comment from the article:

My response to the gear guys has always been, “Don’t tell me what you carry; show me what you can do with it.” And, I would not be interested in knowing what a person did once, but what they can do virtually every time, on demand.

Want to debate or argue caliber or the ammunition you're given to use? Okay, but first let's take a closer look at your demonstrable skills, and discuss whether you may have more pressing concerns we could address and try to resolve. Too many folks seem to think one or more aspects of their gear are going to somehow offset and mitigate problems with their awareness, skills, reactions, judgment and understanding of tactics and the law.

The guys and gals who can consistently demonstrate above average and superior skills, abilities and critical decision-making under duress? They don't seem to get nearly as bothered by gear issues as lesser skilled and experienced folks.

Training classes are all well and good, presuming the trainer is sufficiently skilled in the subjects being taught, and understands how to teach in a (knowledge of adult learning methods, etc) ... and consistently does it in a safe manner. However, racking up the number of classes attended may only show how much money and spare time someone has at their disposal. It's actually learning, and also learning how to properly practice what's learned, and investing some time in continuing proper practice, and retaining the skills and knowledge learned in a manner that's so ingrained it becomes better than second nature (how about first nature?).

Everyone has to make an informed decision about what's 'good enough' for their anticipated needs (unless, of course, an employer provides you with a yardstick for acceptable competency, and just meeting that yardstick is acceptable).

 

[The Night Rider]

I'm not even willing to dress around a full size pistol to go to the corner store and get a cup of coffee.

Apparently you're also unwilling to make your own coffee

 

[wayneinFL]

Apparently you're also unwilling to make your own coffee

A cup of coffee in the morning sounded way more adult than a steak burrito and two grape Monsters. My go-to order when my wife doesn't feel like cooking breakfast, but she's still home to watch the dog.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Another thing that we should remember is that our opinions and habits with regard to self-defense are flexible; maybe even fluid.

My attitudes about full time carry changed when Salt Lake experienced the mass murder at Trolley Square (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting). Before Trolley Square, I carried SOME of the time. After Trolley Square, I asked myself how I would feel if I had been there that night and one of my loved ones had been injured or killed and I could have prevented that injury had I had my firearm on me. But chose not to carry. For whatever reason. I did not like the answer I had to give to that question. So I committed to carrying just about everywhere I legally could when on my own time.

But while I was employed, GFZ policies made it tough to carry every work day. My state gradually eliminated some of these issues (for example outlawing prohibitions on storing guns in a vehicle in an employer's publicly accessible parking lot, legalizing carry on public transport, etc.) and made regular carry easier. So I could carry more on work days.

When I retired, I no longer had a boss to disarm me, and I had more time to carry and practice, so I carry now approaching 100% of the time.

Many here will also change their attitudes about carry over time. And that's OK.

 

[The Night Rider]

A cup of coffee in the morning sounded way more adult than a steak burrito and two grape Monsters. My go-to order when my wife doesn't feel like cooking breakfast, but she's still home to watch the dog.

I had a neighbor that used to get up every morning and he would drive to the Starbucks up on Austin Bluffs to get his whatever double cappuccino mocha Blend Coffee thing whatever.

I mean you can buy Starbucks coffee and just make it at home.

My last job before retirement I had to check A tech company out at the west end of town.

They had a DIY Starbucks coffee bar in the break room. The janitors always had a pot going when I got there and I always got a cup. I actually wasn't impressed but it was free.

 

[Old Dog]

All I have to say is that on every internet gun forum I've ever perused, too many people are buying in to this whole "seven yards is the average gunfight distance" thing. Or, "three yard, three shots, three seconds." And it seems that far too many folks prepare accordingly.

Only in the internet gun world do so many of us seem to practice for the "average." Do MLB hitters practice like all they'll be seeing in games are 60 MPH batting-practice straight pitches, or do they practice for hitting 99 MPH fastballs or 85 MPH 12 to 6 sinkers?

If I knew that my next gunfight was gonna take place at seven yards, I might feel entirely comfortable continuing to pack a little eight-round polymer framed .380 ACP.

But, once again, I train for the most improbable, unlikely and worst things that could ever happen. So I keep a full-sized metal-framed standard-capacity 9mm (or .45 ACP) pistol on my person, even at home. I've personally known, or heard accounts from, persons whose home have been invaded by multiple armed attackers. One homicide I saw a few years back, 41 shell casings from a Glock 19 (the perpetrator actually reloaded -- twice) were found about 25 feet from the victim's car. Their situations certainly weren't "average."

In 2016, we had one of our local detectives make an 84-yard shot with his Colt LW Gov't Model on an armed suspect (Mas wrote this up in American Handgunner).

Obviously, an armed citizen is not gonna be required to take an 84-yard shot, but as others have said, vary your training, push your limits, don't expect your gunfight to be average.

 

[fastbolt]

I'm not willing to dress around a full size pistol every waking moment of my life. Is it really a cop out to say a small pistol "meets my needs" walking from the breakfast table to my desk? I'm not even willing to dress around a full size pistol to go to the corner store and get a cup of coffee.

While I make my own coffee at home (now that I'm retired), I enjoy that I can often find better coffee at coffee shops made by a barista who does it all the time.

Nope, not a 'cop out' to choose not to gird yourself for a possible "John Wick type gunfight", either at home or on some trip outside your home. Not everyone chooses to prepare for possibilities, versus probabilities. Not everyone lives where there's more opportunity to encounter a violent criminal, either.

I learned long ago not to concern myself with the choices made by other folks ... and not to give much (or any?) concern to what other folks thought of my choices. Isn't that one of the neat things about our country and the freedoms we cherish?

For myself, I often choose not to belt on a "Full-size Fighting Handgun" (a label often heard used among gun aficionados in the later 60's and into the 70's ) when going about all of my retirement activities. I spent enough of my career having to do that, including off-duty. Do I sometimes? Sure. Why? Because I can, and sometimes I simply wish to do so. I have a safe full of belt guns I carried for a lot of years, and used to put many tens of thousands of rounds downrange for training, quals/practice and skill building. Sometimes I just want to carry one of them again.

The rest of the time? One or another of my J-frame snubs, or one of my LCP's. I'm comfortable making my own risk assessments for any given day or night. I spent enough time, and received enough training - and acquiring experiential knowledge - doing so during my years of working behind a badge.

I learned of one of our retirees who lives in northern CA, in one of the rural counties, who still likes to carry a .44MAG S&W revolver. Why? Because he likes to do so, I'm told. He was one of the guys who finished his career carrying an issued double stack 9, but had carried a large-framed service revolver in our revolver days. Guess it just makes him feel comfortable to continue to do so for himself.

Back when I kept track of such things (not for the last few years), it was often observed among some LE trainers, and others who polled cops, that only about 20% of active cops carried off-duty. Imagine how those numbers might be even less for retirees?

Over the many years I helped teach classes for private citizens, I had opportunity to ask a respectable number of CCW licensees how many actually carried concealed weapons all the time they could. The answers were usually ... not very many. They wanted the ability to do so, but also wanted to choose when - and when not (more often) - they would do so. Their choice, and I never presumed to gainsay their choices. Not my business.

 

[fastbolt]

...
Any handgun is a compromise, even the full size guns. I don't know that any of you are taking your rifle grocery shopping, so everyone is making a compromise here. Except maybe the guy here that can hit a coyote in the head at 96 yards, which was a rare enough occurrence he thought to go measure the exact distance.

Yep. Handguns are the very definition of compromise when it comes to PDW's. They're handy in the respect they can be carried without the use of a sling, or tying up one or both hands. Hopefully 'good enough' as PDW's in close range confrontations where the use of deadly force is reasonable and justified.

However, lots of folks like to get wrapped up around the axle wanting to argue the degree, or shades, of the compromise someone is willing to accept. Or what they may think is right, appropriate, necessary, etc.

Some folks see handguns as being iconic ... and others see them as a necessary (or at least prudent) burden to be tolerated.

Different strokes.