Something's going on...

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wvshooter said:
My personal take is that the financial picture has people worried. No need to list all of the problems. They're talked up on TV every night.

I'm assuming having a way to defend yourself and having some stocks of supplies on hand is one way to alleviate some of the anxiety. It probably all boils down to the fear of social unrest.
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This +12

Politics don't mean squat when you are worried about a collapsing economy and world unrest.
 
I am an NRA pistol instructor and have had similar experiences over the past year. I think people are watching what is happening in places like Greece and England as money for "entitlements" runs out and they are thinking that is likely to happen here.

Next are thoughts of protecting your family and yourself.
 
They may be seeing the light. With the economic times and governments trying to cut back services as little as possible, police services is one area that will be cut back. The old saying " when seconds count, police are minutes away", may turn into "when seconds count, police are hours away". They see the rise in crime due to the economy and realize that the police can't be everywhere. I hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid things may get worse before they get better.
 
In the 1960-70's, life in America was so mundane and boring that people took drugs like LSD to make life seem different and weird. Now, life in America has become so weird and crazy that people take drugs like Prozac to make life seem "normal." People used to say thngs like "Wow.Far out, man." Now they just say "Whatever." I have no idea if there's a social observation here or not.

I think Katrina opened a lot of peoples eye to the fact that the "gubment" cannot take care of large groups of citizens in an emergency. When the lights go out and your family is hungry, you're on your own.:uhoh:
 
The local Wal-Mart started carrying storable food and AR style rifles. I think that pretty much says it all about public attitudes.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
"We have nothing to fear...but fear itself" Winston Churchill
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Don't intend to sound like I'm preachin' but I'm surprised we've gone 32 posts on this subject without any mention of (any) God. Since we've already opened the political discussion, let's go ahead and throw religion (or rather - spirituality) into the mix. Great spiritual teachers (pick your favorite) are universal in their insight that we always (ALWAYS) get what we "ask & believe". I would suggest that, with the instances noted in these posts, there is a LOT of people asking & believing for chaos, upheaval & disaster. So that's what we're gonna' GET. And if it happens in the timeframe & at the level that society seems to "believe" (*please see above) it's coming, then any form of gun/ammo preparation is, at best, a very short-sighted plan. I have always very much enjoyed owning, shooting & reading about firearms yet to imagine them as a hedge against global collapse is like citizens prior to Noah's flood seeking good swim training.
Please prepare as rapidly & throughly as you feel prudent for your circumstances. But know that churches of all religions are experiencing the same "symptoms" as the ones we are relaying in this thread, yet the suggested preparations are "slightly" different. We are not human beings trying to have a spiritual experience. We are (ALL) spiritual beings currently having a HUMAN experience. If enough of us "ask & believe" to remember only THAT, then this anticipated upheaval becomes more like Chicken Little's warning of "The sky is falling, the sky if falling!". If we simply "ask & believe" for abundance, tranquility & peace and behave like that's what we expect...we can CHANGE what's coming. It's always been that way. God (or whatever you call him) Bless us ALL!
 
I have to agree Ghost Tracker. I think more than anything, certain people WANT to believe something is going to happen and Lord knows, when people WANT something bad enough, they will find a way to make it happen. I see a lot of that kind of thinking in this thread. It's not healthy. It's not productive. More than that, it's just not reality. This goes back to my last post about people's perceptions.

Does violent crime happen? Yes. Do food shortages happen? Yes. Is the economy cyclical? Yes. Is the world ending? No. Are certain people acting like it is? Yes. Are these people acting rationally? No.
 
All kinds of signs, some subtle and others crystal clear.

I will be talking to my banker today after receiving an Arbitration Agreement that says if there's a "dispute" with the bank, I am not entitled to a jury trial or even a trial in a public court. i am also not allowed to join other injured parties in a class-action lawsuit. My only recourse will be in "binding arbitration" which is levied under Federal rather than State jurisdiction.

So they are saying if we take your money you can't use the existing laws of the US or your State to get it back. You have to abide by the decision of a Federal arbiter who is certainly in the pocket of the Big Six banks.

What good are banking laws if you can't use them in a dispute with your bank?
 
Arbitration agreements cannot be used as a defense against illegal activity including fraud. If your bank defrauds you personally, you can bet an arbitrator won't be involved but a judge will, despite any agreement you may have signed. Additionally, for civil disputes in many cases these agreements have proven themselves to be unlawful and do not hold up in court. Just because you sign an agreement doesn't make it lawful.
 
I think a lot of it may have to do with all the Black Friday violence, too. How many people were pepper sprayed (not because they deserved it, but because the sprayer wanted to cut in line), beaten, stabbed, or shot at Walmart on Nov 25 this year?
 
I didn't sign any agreement; there is nothing to sign. It goes into effect on Feb 15 as a condition of having an account there. If my account is active on that date, I have implicitly agreed to those terms.

Ask the customers at MF Global how those banking laws are working out for them. Someone has stolen their cash and gold. Maybe with a brace of expensive lawyers and years of court actions they can get "some" of their property back.

The laws aren't rigged for the little guy.
 
I think a lot of it may have to do with all the Black Friday violence, too.
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I think that's more of a symptom than a cause. But as more (and more, and more) folks look for reasons to reinforce something that they're already frightened about, the more "obvious examples" they're gonna' find. We're GREAT at connecting the dots. (Yet, the "dot connectors" may, indeed, BE RIGHT!)
 
You signed or verbally agreed to something when you opened the account, and that included the right of the bank to change terms and conditions on the account as they see fit. That's not the point though.
 
Sorry but I am really sick & tired of labels like "Anti-Gun Liberals" or "Conservative Republicans".

I am a moderate with both liberal and conservative views (depends on subject). I refuse to be molded into a pre-fabricated set of ideas that each party sells.

The biggest and most idiotic assault of the basis of free Republic just came from a Republican Newt G., who basically said that as a President he should be free to disregard the Supreme Court rulings he disagrees with, or even send the US Marshals to arrest any judge he feels like. That's basically giving President dictatorial powers - the ability to decide what the law is without consulting anyone else.

George W Bush was a free-spending, law ignoring, freedom bashing big government Radical.

Jimmy Carter, arguably the worst president in recent history, was a Democrat.

On the other hand, Harry Truman (D), Ronald Reagan (R), George Bush Sr (R), and even Clinton (D) were not bad presidents - granted they each made their own share of mistakes, but overall I think these guys knew what they were doing.

Sorry for the rant !
 
Wanderling I share your political landscape views (and disagree on the Presidents) and I think that most people actually are independent centrists, as am I. The truth is the far radical left and right shout louder than everyone else, even though combined they are the minority. Anyway, that's enough of that lest the mods lock this baby up, which may be inevitable.
 
I personally think something is very definitely on non gun owners minds.
My point in case was Christmas day.
I was with my Daughter and girlfriend celebrating and after the presents were opened I was served a nice roast dinner as Christmas is also my birthday and my girlfriend informed me her preacher and his wife and kids would be dropping by.
Next thing I know I am in a gun conversation with the preacher(he knows I love hunting,but has never thought to highly of firearms) and he's asking me for help in choosing a home defense gun.
He lives in a far better area than I do but here lately they too have had their share of home burglaries and home invasions,which by the way are quite common in Houston,so after talking with him I convinced him to take a NRA shooting course or find a reputable trainer and to take it from there.
Since the guy is nearly forty years old and has never even owned a gun,let alone fired one,I certainly felt it best he gets a decent teacher to get him where he needs to be.
Wonders never cease.
 
These anecdotes are hardly scientific - actually they aren't at all. I'm not one to put down a person's personal experience, on the contrary it is most valuable in the right context. Having said that, to draw conclusions from these separate and unrelated incidents, however similar, is certainly a flawed prospect.

People like order and organization. It's human nature. We like to understand things. We like to see problems and solutions. We like to know that events have a purpose. Sometimes though, we try to apply order to naturally randomized environments, and despite our advanced knowledge and intelligence, we do it upon instinct. One has to step away and examine a situation and recognize what it really is, not what we want or need it to be to satisfy our desire for order, understanding and above all else - conclusion.
 
Paris said:
These anecdotes are hardly scientific - actually they aren't at all. I'm not one to put down a person's personal experience, on the contrary it is most valuable in the right context. Having said that, to draw conclusions from these separate and unrelated incidents, however similar, is certainly a flawed prospect.

People like order and organization. It's human nature. We like to understand things. We like to see problems and solutions. We like to know that events have a purpose. Sometimes though, we try to apply order to naturally randomized environments, and despite our advanced knowledge and intelligence, we do it upon instinct. One has to step away and examine a situation and recognize what it really is, not what we want or need it to be to satisfy our desire for order, understanding and above all else - conclusion.
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Paris, a society is measured by behavioral patterns. The increasing awareness of self defense as shown by the anecdotal evidence noted here is only unscientific because the sample is loaded... we're on a gun forum. The thing about it is that any one of you can go to CNN, ABC, NBC, New York Times, Myspace, Facebook, or any other news, media or social networking site and you can see the pattern of increased awareness of crime, violence and the increased desire to defend against such.

All in all, while our evidence here is hardly a scientific sampling, there is evidence all around you of this. Refusing to see it, or acknowledge it doesn't change it.
 
I found it interesting a couple of weeks ago that my parents will be taking a concealed carry class in January. My mom is ok with guns and has a rifle and a pistol in the house for defense, but my dad has always disliked them. He has a revolver, but never shoots it. They both pooh-poohed me for a while about me getting my license, but now they are both determined to take the class. Neither one will tell me what has changed, and that's what has me curious.

Dad normally isn't the kind of guy to even care where his revolver is, but a week before they announced their intention to get their licenses, he started asking me "So where do I keep that thing anyways?" :uhoh: I'm just glad that I put it safely in a lock box with ammo in an easy place for him to find, but it worries me that I've had to remind him of its location 3 times in the last year...

I agree that something is up. I've had a couple of people I know at work randomly start conversations about getting a carry license "just in case, you know..." And I live in a nice small town area, too....
 
Paris, a society is measured by behavioral patterns. The increasing awareness of self defense as shown by the anecdotal evidence noted here is only unscientific because the sample is loaded... we're on a gun forum. The thing about it is that any one of you can go to CNN, ABC, NBC, New York Times, Myspace, Facebook, or any other news, media or social networking site and you can see the pattern of increased awareness of crime, violence and the increased desire to defend against such.

All in all, while our evidence here is hardly a scientific sampling, there is evidence all around you of this. Refusing to see it, or acknowledge it doesn't change it.
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The fact that this is an uncontrolled compilation of data on a gun forum is only one small reason this idea that some societal pressure valve is near bursting is unwarranted.

People paying more attention is good and as would be expected, more discussion exists due to this fact, more conversations, as noted in this thread.

That does not mean however that the frequency of these events or probably of greater events to occur is increased at all. There is no evidence for this. As we know, from correctly gathered data that violent crime is decreasing. The number of educated people on the planet is increasing. The supply of food is increasing and so on and so forth.

Again, stating the "evidence is all around" does not serve as substitute for a factual argument for this line of thinking. It just doesn't. Based on this, to draw some kind of conclusion that the world is headed for spiral free fall some time in the near future because more people are paying attention is just, well, foolish. No offense intended to you.
 
Paris said:
The fact that this is an uncontrolled compilation of data on a gun forum is only one small reason this idea that some societal pressure valve is near bursting is unwarranted.

People paying more attention is good and as would be expected, more discussion exists due to this fact, more conversations, as noted in this thread.

That does not mean however that the frequency of these events or probably of greater events to occur is increased at all. There is no evidence for this. As we know, from correctly gathered data that violent crime is decreasing. The number of educated people on the planet is increasing. The supply of food is increasing and so on and so forth.

Again, stating the "evidence is all around" does not serve as substitute for a factual argument for this line of thinking. It just doesn't. Based on this, to draw some kind of conclusion that the world is headed for spiral free fall some time in the near future because more people are paying attention is just, well, foolish. No offense intended to you.
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So simply by you stating that things are hunky dory makes it so? That makes me curious... How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of homeless in this country? The millions of starving people in countries around the world? What about the fact that our unemployment rate here is approaching Great Depression era levels? Do you have articles and studies you can cite that show a dropping crime rate that are conducted by objective organizations? At least most of us have cited personal experience or data that can be verified with little work... Where is the contradictory proof that you're talking about?

Go tell the Greek population that they have enough food and crime is down... Try doing that in London. I'm sure all the protests, riots and public outcry will simply cease when you enlighten these people with the "fact" that their problems are just in their imagination.
 
So simply by you stating that things are hunky dory makes it so? That makes me curious... How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of homeless in this country? The millions of starving people in countries around the world? What about the fact that our unemployment rate here is approaching Great Depression era levels? Do you have articles and studies you can cite that show a dropping crime rate that are conducted by objective organizations? At least most of us have cited personal experience or data that can be verified with little work... Where is the contradictory proof that you're talking about?

Go tell the Greek population that they have enough food and crime is down... Try doing that in London. I'm sure all the protests, riots and public outcry will simply cease when you enlighten these people with the "fact" that their problems are just in their imagination.
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You're right. The world IS ending. I saw it on CNN, and ten people in the office who also saw it on CNN spoke to me about it, therefore it's happening.

Again, nothing I have said makes it so, just like nothing you have said makes it so, just like none of the stories in this thread make it so.

Increased visibility of events does not mean increased frequency or increasingly escalated events, it just means more people are watching, which you have admitted. Yes, that includes Greece. The fall of the USSR was by far a greater event than Greece is today, and guess what, with all their nukes and armies and issues which had a real affect on the planet - it kept going, and it will keep going.

It sounds like you really want this to happen.
 
I also find it hilarious that you're implying that because I don't agree we're going to hell in a hand basket that is somehow a denial that bad things happen, happen every day and will continue to happen. I find that connotation to be intellectually dishonest, but perhaps I've just mistaken your intent.
 
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