YammyMonkey
Member
First off, if you haven’t taken these courses, do it. The emphasis is definitely not on shooting (which means some won’t take it) but on trying to avoid bad situations, how to spot one brewing & how to deal with the situation once force is necessary. In my opinion, having been through 4 purely shooting classes (a local “advanced pistol,” OPS 1-day Carbine Tactics, 2-day Pistol Tactics & Surgical Speed Shooting) & this one, this was the most eye-opening, informative & worthwhile weekend training course I’ve taken to date. I would say once you have a grasp on fundamental defensive handgun use & tactics (able to draw, “Get Off the X” move to & use cover, etc…) this or something similar should be your next step. I thought that after this class I would be pretty well set with a good base of skills to build on & although I am certainly better trained than I was, this course really exposed my weaknesses & showed me what I need to work on.
PUC is one of the pre-requisites for ECQC (In Extremis Knife is the other course that will work as a pre-req) & focuses mainly on the avoiding/spotting the fight before it happens, the default position & introducing the underhook & other get-away techniques. I took my wife with me to PUC & after it was over she told me she wants to do ECQC next time SouthNarc comes to town. This is significant because she enjoys shooting, but has resisted getting any training because in her mind I am here to protect her. I’ve been trying to make this change in her mindset for years, especially since she spends a lot of time with our 2yo son going to the grocery store, etc. without me. Sometimes it takes one big event to change someone, sometimes it’s a small one like this & sometimes they never change- guess I got lucky.
ECQC TD1 started off with a range session where we practiced the 4-count drawstroke, especially the 2 position SouthNarc teaches which has your elbow high & relatively straight back, wrist locked out & thumb flagged up & to the outside so you get a good grip & some standoff from your body. The standoff is important; I wasn’t flagging my thumb out enough at first & during a few of the shooting sessions managed to induce 3 or 4 double feeds. We shot from head on the target at the 2-count to get a good feel of that position, then started working backwards & firing from different points of extension depending on how far we were from the target. That was all the range time we had. I think I burned about 140 rounds. This is in no way a bad thing. The range work was a check for safe gunhandling, introduced a few basic principles & made sure everyone had a good grasp on drawing, firing from the 2, 3 & 4 positions, as well as between 3 & full extension. After lunch we went inside & practiced some of the things we used in PUC in increasing levels of resistance with unloaded Sims guns. I think we also did some weapon retention drills, but that may have been TD2. The day ended with us running a few 1-on-1 FOF drills with Sims guns & FIST helmets.
ECQC TD2 usually includes range time as well, but it was snowing very hard & everyone had done well with the range time on TD1 so we stayed inside & did more hands on & FOF drills. In retrospect this was a good thing for me since I got more hands on/fighting time in. We practiced in-holster weapon retention, getting the gun back from a gun grab as well as grabbing & taking someone else’s gun. From there we worked this in a small corner that had a bunch of stuff stacked on one wall. The point was it is one thing to run drills on the open dojo floor, but another to run them with no room (think in a car or jammed up in a corner or getting ambushed by your front door, etc…) We also worked on getting away from & stealing the gun from someone who has it stuck in your neck, ribs, sensitive bits, during a headlock, etc. SouthNarc stated the usual criminal pulling a weapon on you scenario is very up close & personal, not the movie “gimme your money” with the gun fully extended & 3 feet away kind of deal. The reasoning is that the up-close version is much more covert & could easily be mistaken for a guy helping his drunk buddy. We also worked how to keep someone away if you’re knocked on your back as well as how to get them off of you if they follow you to the ground. This included gun retention drills as well. The semi-final exercises had 1 unknown contact & 1 citizen. Sometimes it ended in shooting with a Sims gun, sometimes it was just some drunk or someone looking for directions, but pushing citizen’s safe space. The final exercise was 2 unknown contacts & 1 citizen. Sometimes the initiating unknown was an innocent, sometimes he was the bad guy, sometimes the 2nd unknown was an innocent, sometimes he was a bad guy. You can probably see how many possibilities there are for good/good, good/bad etc.
Lessons Learned:
1- I need more hand to hand training
2- Depending on distance a physical or non-sighted index may be all you need to get rounds on target
3- It is really easy to get too close or let someone get too close
4- Once you start the attack PRESS ON & go through the person, especially if there is more than one of them
5- Move in circles, you’ll see other threats coming up behind you
6- Dynamic movement beats shuffling your feet
7- Don’t work yourself into a corner even though for some it will feel safer that being out in the open
8- At this point going hands-on is a bad thing for me
9- Criminals travel in packs & 2+ on 1 is a very bad deal for the 1
10- Sometimes there are no good answers, but there may be a good enough to keep you alive answer
11- Keep fighting- sometimes a slight hip or weight shift makes all the difference
12- A knife can help if you can deploy it & use it
13- A knife can kill you if the other guy gets it deployed & uses it on you
14- Weapon retention is key
15- Sometimes you only need to clear a little room & protect it to get the gun in play
16- I have a LOT to learn
17- PUC is a good intro class for people to get them interested in more intense training
18- I am sure more will come to mind over the next few weeks as well
I cannot recommend this course or SouthNarc as an instructor highly enough. He's in the process of working up ECQC 3 & 4. I will be there, ready & willing regardless of cost.
I may have forgotten something so if you have anything to add, please do so.
PUC is one of the pre-requisites for ECQC (In Extremis Knife is the other course that will work as a pre-req) & focuses mainly on the avoiding/spotting the fight before it happens, the default position & introducing the underhook & other get-away techniques. I took my wife with me to PUC & after it was over she told me she wants to do ECQC next time SouthNarc comes to town. This is significant because she enjoys shooting, but has resisted getting any training because in her mind I am here to protect her. I’ve been trying to make this change in her mindset for years, especially since she spends a lot of time with our 2yo son going to the grocery store, etc. without me. Sometimes it takes one big event to change someone, sometimes it’s a small one like this & sometimes they never change- guess I got lucky.
ECQC TD1 started off with a range session where we practiced the 4-count drawstroke, especially the 2 position SouthNarc teaches which has your elbow high & relatively straight back, wrist locked out & thumb flagged up & to the outside so you get a good grip & some standoff from your body. The standoff is important; I wasn’t flagging my thumb out enough at first & during a few of the shooting sessions managed to induce 3 or 4 double feeds. We shot from head on the target at the 2-count to get a good feel of that position, then started working backwards & firing from different points of extension depending on how far we were from the target. That was all the range time we had. I think I burned about 140 rounds. This is in no way a bad thing. The range work was a check for safe gunhandling, introduced a few basic principles & made sure everyone had a good grasp on drawing, firing from the 2, 3 & 4 positions, as well as between 3 & full extension. After lunch we went inside & practiced some of the things we used in PUC in increasing levels of resistance with unloaded Sims guns. I think we also did some weapon retention drills, but that may have been TD2. The day ended with us running a few 1-on-1 FOF drills with Sims guns & FIST helmets.
ECQC TD2 usually includes range time as well, but it was snowing very hard & everyone had done well with the range time on TD1 so we stayed inside & did more hands on & FOF drills. In retrospect this was a good thing for me since I got more hands on/fighting time in. We practiced in-holster weapon retention, getting the gun back from a gun grab as well as grabbing & taking someone else’s gun. From there we worked this in a small corner that had a bunch of stuff stacked on one wall. The point was it is one thing to run drills on the open dojo floor, but another to run them with no room (think in a car or jammed up in a corner or getting ambushed by your front door, etc…) We also worked on getting away from & stealing the gun from someone who has it stuck in your neck, ribs, sensitive bits, during a headlock, etc. SouthNarc stated the usual criminal pulling a weapon on you scenario is very up close & personal, not the movie “gimme your money” with the gun fully extended & 3 feet away kind of deal. The reasoning is that the up-close version is much more covert & could easily be mistaken for a guy helping his drunk buddy. We also worked how to keep someone away if you’re knocked on your back as well as how to get them off of you if they follow you to the ground. This included gun retention drills as well. The semi-final exercises had 1 unknown contact & 1 citizen. Sometimes it ended in shooting with a Sims gun, sometimes it was just some drunk or someone looking for directions, but pushing citizen’s safe space. The final exercise was 2 unknown contacts & 1 citizen. Sometimes the initiating unknown was an innocent, sometimes he was the bad guy, sometimes the 2nd unknown was an innocent, sometimes he was a bad guy. You can probably see how many possibilities there are for good/good, good/bad etc.
Lessons Learned:
1- I need more hand to hand training
2- Depending on distance a physical or non-sighted index may be all you need to get rounds on target
3- It is really easy to get too close or let someone get too close
4- Once you start the attack PRESS ON & go through the person, especially if there is more than one of them
5- Move in circles, you’ll see other threats coming up behind you
6- Dynamic movement beats shuffling your feet
7- Don’t work yourself into a corner even though for some it will feel safer that being out in the open
8- At this point going hands-on is a bad thing for me
9- Criminals travel in packs & 2+ on 1 is a very bad deal for the 1
10- Sometimes there are no good answers, but there may be a good enough to keep you alive answer
11- Keep fighting- sometimes a slight hip or weight shift makes all the difference
12- A knife can help if you can deploy it & use it
13- A knife can kill you if the other guy gets it deployed & uses it on you
14- Weapon retention is key
15- Sometimes you only need to clear a little room & protect it to get the gun in play
16- I have a LOT to learn
17- PUC is a good intro class for people to get them interested in more intense training
18- I am sure more will come to mind over the next few weeks as well
I cannot recommend this course or SouthNarc as an instructor highly enough. He's in the process of working up ECQC 3 & 4. I will be there, ready & willing regardless of cost.
I may have forgotten something so if you have anything to add, please do so.