Speer 50AE 325gn bullets in 500 Magnum, max pressure/velocity

[BC17A]

Anyone used the Speer 4495 325gn (target shooting bullet) in their 500 Magnum? Wondering if they'll take pressure and velocity loaded with H110 or CFE-BLK. I've rolled some through the cannelure tool and the jackets seem thick enough to hold up. Worst case is I use these for lighter loads closer to 50AE pressures. I've sent an email to Speer asking the same but still waiting for them to reply.

 

[Demi-human]

The only difference I can discern between the two is the shape and fifty grains filling the hollow point Do they have different jackets thicknesses? I don’t know. But your bullets look good, from my amateur stature.

I’m not a super pistolero, I like them in 50AE, but I think once one gets to fifty caliber and rifle pressures, the difference between different bullets becomes less about safe pressure limits and more about if the bullets are accurate. ( Not that I’m sayin be unsafe, just thinking aloud.)The few hundred or even thousand pounds pressure could be the jacket, or the temperature or the barometric pressure. Your barrel may be rough and shred plated bullets at that pressure, or not. Berry’s may work fine for your revolver. Some don’t. Some Speers are jacketed some are plated. I don’t know. But to have them is to need to try them. They will either work or not.

But, I’m just blabbing to tag in to see what other responses are. I have an Eagle, but not a Smith.
I’m sure you’ve already got some loaded at starting pressure already anyway.

Let us know what you find out! Because I’m not smart and need to learn anyway!

 

[BC17A]

Not too many 500 Mag shooters around I guess. I heard back from Speer and all they said was that they designed that bullet for the 50AE and have only tested it at 50AE pressures. So, looks like I'm just going to have to do my own testing. Going to start with CFE-BLK since a max charge in 500 Mag produces pressures well below the 50AE cartridge max pressure. If the bullet performs well, and stays together with CFE I'll move on to H110 and see how it does.

 

[Mk-211]

I have some lighter bullets for my 500 but haven't loaded that many. Most of the stuff I load is heavier and lead.

I wouldn't think that you would have any problems shooting them in your 500. Shooting them a lower velocities and pressures should keep them from coming apart.

I would load a handful of them with H110 with a warm load and shoot them into something that you can recover the bullet from. See how the jacket holds up, if it looks good then up the charge a little.

 

[BC17A]

I have some lighter bullets for my 500 but haven't loaded that many. Most of the stuff I load is heavier and lead.

I wouldn't think that you would have any problems shooting them in your 500. Shooting them a lower velocities and pressures should keep them from coming apart.

I would load a handful of them with H110 with a warm load and shoot them into something that you can recover the bullet from. See how the jacket holds up, if it looks good then up the charge a little.

I also found some 350gn XTP's, and have a Lee 440gn mold on the way. Thinking about milling out the gas check groove to get more weight from it, maybe around 500 grains?

 

[Mk-211]

Not sure if it will get you to 500 grs or not but it'll get you close.

I think it was Matt's bullets that has some 390 grn bullets, some of the nicest lead rounds I've loaded.

These here https://www.mattsbullets.com/index....ducts_id=181&zenid=55j554kcgnjufgoilnue3jgci5

 

[Grumulkin]

Anyone used the Speer 4495 325gn (target shooting bullet) in their 500 Magnum? Wondering if they'll take pressure and velocity loaded with H110 or CFE-BLK. I've rolled some through the cannelure tool and the jackets seem thick enough to hold up. Worst case is I use these for lighter loads closer to 50AE pressures. I've sent an email to Speer asking the same but still waiting for them to reply.
View attachment 931583

What do you think will happen from shooting a "target shooting bullet" in a 500 S&W Magnum? I say nothing bad. They're not going to disintegrate into blue mist, etc. If you happen to shoot an animal with one at maximum velocity, they may come apart which just means the animal will die faster. I would use them without a second thought.

 

[BC17A]

Here's an update for those interested. These seem just fine at magnum pressures and velocities (1650fps), and are very accurate. The only issue is the soft jacket, which upon impact let the petals break off at the cannelure. Next time I load these I'll try to add less cannelure depth to see if it helps. I recovered this one, along with one of the Hornady XTPs, from a sandy dirt backstop behind the target at about 80 yards away. Impressive at 1.328" wide.

 

[Demi-human]

Awesome.

 

[AJC1]

I pity the fool, who trespasses

 

[Demi-human]

I pity the fool, who trespasses

..in my neighbor's kitchen, behind the fridge, on the other side of that Buick...

 

[forty_caliber]

Never know when you will need to stop a steam locomotive...or an aircraft carrier.

.40

 

[__steve__]

Here's an update for those interested. These seem just fine at magnum pressures and velocities (1650fps), and are very accurate. The only issue is the soft jacket, which upon impact let the petals break off at the cannelure. Next time I load these I'll try to add less cannelure depth to see if it helps. I recovered this one, along with one of the Hornady XTPs, from a sandy dirt backstop behind the target at about 80 yards away. Impressive at 1.328" wide.

View attachment 935363 View attachment 935364

Did you load these with the cfe-blk or h110?

 

[Constrictor]

My favorite caliber.

 

[BC17A]

Did you load these with the cfe-blk or h110?

Yes, both the above and also 2400, 1680, 4227, and 4100.

 

[buck460XVR]

I heard back from Speer and all they said was that they designed that bullet for the 50AE and have only tested it at 50AE pressures.

Sounds like a standard response for legal purposes. My question is why you want to use a bullet designed for a different platform/pressure? Cost? Availability? Where did you get the position of the cannelure from? Does this give the same case capacity of other 325gr projectiles that you have published recipes for? Speer gives a max velocity of about 1400FPS with this bullet in .50 AE. I would keep anything I loaded for the .500 S&W to this or below. Thin jackets can separate under heavy pressure loads and can also produce excessive premature forcing cone erosion. With the cost of a proper bullet, with tons of published recipes available, being only a few cents a round more, personally, I'd stick with appropriate projectiles. This comes from many years of experience reloading for the .500's little sister, the .460.

 

[Demi-human]

With the cost of a proper bullet,

being .70 -.80 cents a piece, I can totally see using some cheaper bullets just to get some extra rounds in with one of your most favorite pistols.

The extra diameter from .452 evidently justifies ridiculous pricing.
So I lament the discontinuation of Rainer’s 335 Hybrid Hollow Points.
And, too, that Berry’s are not quite worth the bang in my pistol. (Good, just not great.)
I wonder, should I not try Berry’s offering for the 500 in my 50AE just because it is labeled as such?

A few weeks ago RMR had some Sig V-Crowns for 50AE. They had Sig turn cannelures into the side so they could be used with a roll crimp in the 500S&W.
Which are they? Fish or Fowl?

I say both. It’s just a diameter to me. I use a bunch of “45 Colt” bullets in my 450 Bushmaster.
And, as evidenced, seems to work very well.

 

[__steve__]

Yes, both the above and also 2400, 1680, 4227, and 4100.

A little off topic of your 50AE experiment, but for that grain of jacket bullet, at and north of magnum velocities, out of 2400, 4227, H CFEBLK and H110 powders, which seemed to perform the best for you? Thanks

 

[buck460XVR]

being .70 -.80 cents a piece, I can totally see using some cheaper bullets just to get some extra rounds in with one of your most favorite pistols.

The extra diameter from .452 evidently justifies ridiculous pricing.

From what I saw by comparing prices at Midway and other online sources, was a difference of less than a dime between the .50 AE projectiles and those intended for .500 S&W. Bullets intended for DG and Boutique type bullets, obviously are higher. Having to take the time and effort to manually put a cannelure on a bullet meant for taper crimping is not worth a dime to me. One does not buy a thoroughbred race horse and expect it to perform by eating in the cow pasture. One does not buy a high performance engine and expect it not to ping on regular gas. Like kids, a .500 is expensive to feed. One reason there are so many of them on the used gun case. If one can afford a .500, they certainly can afford the extra nickle a shot. As I said, using them at .50AE velocities and pressures is not the issue. Those are certainly appropriate for that bullet out of a .500 for shooting paper. Push those bullets to legitimate .500 velocities and try to use them on game and along with poor terminal performance, you may be doing more than a nickel's worth of damage to your forcing cone with every shot. Your gun, your choice.

The extra cost is not always diameter related. Copper is more expensive than lead. Thicker jackets mean more copper. I believe the Speer 4495 325gn is a bonded/plated bullet and not a true jacketed and has a different profile as compared to Speer's projectile intended for the .500 S&W

I say both. It’s just a diameter to me.
And, as evidenced, seems to work very well.

Yep, as shown by the OP, they work very well on a sandy dirt backstop.

 

[BC17A]

Sounds like a standard response for legal purposes. My question is why you want to use a bullet designed for a different platform/pressure? Cost? Availability? Where did you get the position of the cannelure from? Does this give the same case capacity of other 325gr projectiles that you have published recipes for? Speer gives a max velocity of about 1400FPS with this bullet in .50 AE. I would keep anything I loaded for the .500 S&W to this or below. Thin jackets can separate under heavy pressure loads and can also produce excessive premature forcing cone erosion. With the cost of a proper bullet, with tons of published recipes available, being only a few cents a round more, personally, I'd stick with appropriate projectiles. This comes from many years of experience reloading for the .500's little sister, the .460.

I believe the Speer 4495 325gn is a bonded/plated bullet and not a true jacketed and has a different profile as compared to Speer's projectile intended for the .500 S&W

For the record the Speer 4495 is a true jacketed bullet, see pic in reply #8. The 4495's jacket is also .002" thicker than the Hornady 350XTP jacket. I've recovered and examined enough of both to say with confidence that there is absolutely no reason to to be concerned with this Speer bullet fired at 500 magnum velocities. The cannelure I rolled in approximately the same position as the Speer 4491 350gn DCSP, and load data worked up from the same. As for why I use them, it's what I found locally so I bought several boxes to experiment/test.

A little off topic of your 50AE experiment, but for that grain of jacket bullet, at and north of magnum velocities, out of 2400, 4227, H CFEBLK and H110 powders, which seemed to perform the best for you? Thanks

I settled on 38 grains of either 2400 or AA#9 as my best performers(accuracy+lowES/SD) with 325gn bullets. Both loads averaged just over 1600fps. H110 and CFE-BLK worked best with 350XTP and also my 440gn castings. 4227 was kind of disappointing with velocities much lower than advertised, and so-so accuracy.

 

[Demi-human]

they work very well on a sandy dirt backstop.

Not everything is hunting, unless you think one of those wouldn’t do it.

So, don’t try new things. Even when they work as well as the Hornady XTP (.92 each per MidwayUSA) right next to it?
These are the Uni-Cor (.40 each per MidwayUSA. Both unavailable at this time and likely not for a while.), not the DeepCurl.

I get what you’re saying about fueling race cars, but this is more like burning up tires, I think.
I don’t see the point in paying double for Michelins, when I could have twice as many Perellis to use.

Maybe I just like to drive...

 

[buck460XVR]

For the record the Speer 4495 is a true jacketed bullet, see pic in reply #8.

If you look in a Speer manual, you will see them listed (#4495) as their "UCHP". Stands for Uni-Cor Hollow point. Their Uni-Cor handgun bullets are a bonded bullet, not a true cup and core jacketed.

Not everything is hunting, unless you think one of those wouldn’t do it.

So, don’t try new things. Even when they work as well as the Hornady XTP (.92 each per MidwayUSA) right next to it?
These are the Uni-Cor (.40 each per MidwayUSA. Both unavailable at this time and likely not for a while.), not the DeepCurl.

I get what you’re saying about fueling race cars, but this is more like burning up tires, I think.
I don’t see the point in paying double for Michelins, when I could have twice as many Perellis to use.

Maybe I just like to drive...

No, not everything is hunting. But when one talks about a .500 S&W, you generally are talking wither hunting big game or protection from dangerous game. As I said, those bullets will work just fine outta the .500 when driven at .50 AE velocities. I like to try new things, but I use sound judgement when I do so. Folks want to do the same thing with their .460. Appropriate bullets for legitimate .460 velocities and pressure are more expensive than those intended for .45 Colt. Bullets look the same and are the exact same diameter. But the same is true. While those bullets designed for .45 Colt can be shot from a .460 and can be quite accurate, putting them down the barrel at legitimate .460 velocities does not only end up with poor terminal performance, but one is also taking the chance of damage to the gun. Both the .460 and the .500 can be accurate when downloaded to the velocities of lesser calibers and for paper they need nuttin' more. I'm just tryin to be helpful because I have reloaded for the really big boomers. But, if you don't believe me, maybe you might believe Speer.......maker of those bullets. Here is what they say, in their Reloading Manual #14, about their #4495 and .500 S&W use.

Although the .500 S&W shares the bullet diameter of the .50 AE, Speer .50 AE bullets should never be used for maximum pressure loads in the .500. The jacket design of the .50 AE bullets was tuned for the maximum pressure of the .50 AE.......36,000psi. The maximum pressure for the .500 is nearly double. The Speer Uni-Core 350 gr SP(#4491) has a heavier jacket rated for .500 pressure levels. Thin Jacketed .50 AE bullets at full .500 S&W pressure can cause erosion to the revolver's forcing cone and topstrap.

....has nuttin' to do with burning tires.

 

[Constrictor]

I've been really happy with raniers plated 335g. Lucky I bought 5k of them before they went belly up.

 

[Demi-human]

...has nuttin' to do with burning tires.

Oh, I think the vast majority of giant pistol ownership is exactly akin to this.
That’s what mine is for...
Though there is a LeSabre I hunt occasionally. An old rutty one, with a V-8...

Strange how bonded rifle bullets are so much tougher, but this doesn’t carry over to pistols?

One thing I don’t get, perhaps because mine is an automatic, how does a 350 grain round shoulder produce more cone erosion and top strap cutting than a 350 grain flat meplat?

If the erosion was from the higher volumes of slow powder for the lighter weight bullets, why would bullet construction matter, these jackets being two thousandths thicker than Hornady’s?

Would not both types of bullets be equally as detrimental to the forcing cone?

I would also assume flame cutting the top strap would have more to do with the “fuel” than the “tires”?

I have heard indications that Lil’ Gun powder burns with much higher heat than H-110 or CFE BLK, and this may have been a major contributor to the wear. Is the true?


And, hey. These aren’t arguments.

I got questions. I’m just lookin’ for answers, and you’re here right now.
They’re is an elderly gentleman being consumed by dialysis who wishes to unload his XVR(and his Sportster, but I have kids yet.) to me. I was the only one to smile after shooting it, instead of crying about my hand.
Since I have no ambitions of hunting Yaks or Yetis, it would be another FunGun. But not if I ruin it with fire...

 

[__steve__]

I have heard indications that Lil’ Gun powder burns with much higher heat than H-110 or CFE BLK, and this may have been a major contributor to the wear. Is the true?
...

I also read this somewhere- that LG has higher flame front temps than similar rate powders.