Speer Match .30 168gr BT for deer?

[Kharn]

MidwayUSA's page for Speer .30 168gr indicates:

Speer Boat Tail Bullets are designed for long-range shooting. The tapered heel that gives that bullet type its name reduces aerodynamic drag for flatter trajectories. These bullets are an excellent choice for whitetail deer and antelope. This is not loaded ammunition.

Would that be a good bullet for use on mid-Atlantic white-tails? I thought a soft-point was needed, but I cant find any 168gr SP's for use in my .308 700P. Has anyone given them a try on any game?

Kharn
(I'm not sure if this should be in Hunting or Reloading; one of my buddies is letting me use his reloading gear and is teaching me how, but he's never gone hunting with a .308, most of his guns have Magnum in the cartridge name)

 

[Greybeard]

No personal experience with 'em on Bambi's Daddy, but from Speer comment (and their reputation) I'd not hesitate to try 'em. Tech specs say "jacketed hollow point", so with that much weight, I'd still expect excellent penetration. In fact, possibly rather nasty at closer ranges.

FWIW, buddy and I have found that 165 to 168 grain bullets at around 2600 fps often provide close to the optimum weight for accuracy from some 308s and '06s.

 

[molonlabe]

You will not get adequate expansion from a match bullet (called match king) as they were not designed to do that. use something like a Sierra 165gr HPBT also called a gameking. Speers equivalent would be http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/bc.cfm?Stock_Num=2140
This is a BTHP with a moe re open cavity to insure expansion.
You can always contact Speer and get the scoop from them.

 

[mustanger98]

I'm not sure which state you live in, but in GA we legally have to use an expanding bullet. A match bullet, as was mentioned, will not expand as it was pretty much just made for accurate paper punching. (Not that it won't make a combat loading too, but that's beside the point.) No, get you some GameKings or maybe Hornady's 150gr BTSP- the latter should do fine on deer from a .308.

 

[trapperjohn]

these bullets are hollow points
how many hollowpoints do not expand?

 

[Kharn]

Hmm, I'll have to ask Speer about Midway's designation.

Kharn

 

[sumpnz]

The fact that it's a hollowpoint is more a technicality than anything else. The hollow tip is quite shallow and only exists becuase of how they manufacture the bullets, and is not a purposful design feature AFIAK. For all practical purposes they should be considered FMJ bullets.

 

[mete]

The "hollow point" on the match bullets are not designed for expansion. The guys at Midway are idiots , why do you think they call it a Match bullet. Ideally a target bullet should have a long sharp point for best ballistic coefficient . However that point is very difficult to make and is very fragile. They found that a small hollow point looses little of ballistic coefficient and is not fragile. People keep trying to use match bullets for hunting and then wonder why they don't perform well !!!!

 

[RaySendero]

.... A match bullet, as was mentioned, will not expand as it was pretty much just made for accurate paper punching. (Not that it won't make a combat loading too, but that's beside the point.) No, get you some GameKings or ....

mustanger98,

Some of the Sierra MatchKings bullets will expand on game (and blow-up too!). 30 caliber and below tend to blow-up. Above 30 will expand to some degree.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

This topic has been discussed at length at Accuratereloading.com

Behold the Mother of All MatchKing Threads"

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ub...ber=253179&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

136 pages of venom soaked flame-throwing

Enjoy

ZM

 

[Kharn]

Is there a difference from Speer's Match and (Sierra's?) MatchKing?

Kharn

 

[molonlabe]

Some of the Sierra MatchKings bullets will expand on game (and blow-up too!). 30 caliber and below tend to blow-up. Above 30 will expand to some degree.
_____________________________________
Maybe, maybe not. The key here is “does it reliably expandâ€. I have known people who told me that they dropped a deer in its track with one and the next year they are wondering why they lost a deer (as they drilled right through it and it kept going). I don’t know maybe they hit bone the first year. Terminal bullet performance is often a very esoteric science. Anyway the world is full of mis-information. Call Speer or Sierra.

One other food for thought. Why is the 168gr matchking used by our snipers if hollow points are banned by the Geneva Convention? Because they are not designed to expand.

In answer to the above. I have both and they looked the same to me as far as total bearing surface contacting the rifling.

 

[haynhogdogger]

As Molonlabe said i'd go with the sierra 165 BTHP Gamekings Ive used this bullet on alot of deer as well as sheep, goats and African Plains Game. They have performed very,very well almost all animals dropped where they stood the Kudu I shot went the farthest 20 ft. as long as we do our part and get it where it counts.

Good Luck!!!

 

[RaySendero]

Zeke,

Thanks - the name of the thread you are refering to is "Sierra Matchking...Not a hunting bullet!" and it is a good read. Convinced me to give the 200 SMKs a try in my 8x57 mauser.


Kharn,

I've got a friend that has shot 3 deer with a Sierra MK from his 7mm STW. Says all 3 dropped in their tracks form a broadside shot at less than 100 yards. 2 went in between the ribs - The other broke a rib on the way in. None of them exited - None were found intact either! But most likely the SMK would have only wounded from any shot angle other than that broadside to the chest. If you are willing to accept a broad side to the chest shot limitation and stay off the shoulder why not give'em a try. The thread above is filled with meat from (for) those that have tried the SMKs and much distain from those that have never tried them.

 

[St. Gunner]

I swear this Texas Spike never complained when a 135gr Sierra MatchKing out of a .270 Winchester Sendero cracked through a rib on the entrance and blew this hole on exit in his front shoulder, he simply died. Range right at 400yds on a sharp downward angle.

I've shot alot of stuff with various Matchkings (couple hundred hogs and maybe a dozen deer) and never had a lost critter because of any fault of the bullet. Hit a few hogs bad when they where running and didn't recover them. Never lost a deer size critter, may not always have an exit, but when you don't I have never had one go over a couple dozen yards.

Killed a 150lb dressed weight whitetail buck with a single shot from a 168gr matchking in a .308 at 7yds, didn't get a passthrough, but the fact that what was left inside his chest looked like it had been well blended was enough to convince me they where good at energy transfer.

 

[molonlabe]

I'm done. There are better bullets for taking game so here's the report if anyone wants to read it. Use what you want. I'll stick with the gamekings.

As previously described, the MatchKing is a boat tail, ogival spitzer tip bullet with open tip. The "open tip" is a shallow aperture (approximately the diameter of the wire in a standard size straight pin or paper clip) in the nose of the bullet. While sometimes described as a "hollow point," this is a mischaracterization in law of war terms. Generally a "hollow point" bullet is thought of in terms of its ability to expand on impact with soft tissue. Physical examination of the MatchKing "open tip" bullet reveals that its opening is extremely small in comparison to the aperture in comparable hollow point hunting bullets; for example, the 165-grain GameKing is a true hollow point boat tail bullet with an aperture substantially greater than the MatchKing, and skiving (serrations cut into the jacket) to insure expansion. In the MatchKing, the open tip is closed as much as possible to provide better aerodynamics, and contains no skiving. The lead core of the MatchKing bullet is entirely covered by the bullet jacket. While the GameKing bullet is designed to bring the ballistic advantages of a match bullet to long range hunting, the manufacturer expressly recommends against the use of the MatchKing for hunting game of any size because it does not have the expansion characteristics of a hunting bullet.



http://www.prostar.com/web/sniper/article2.html

 

[trapperjohn]

are there any comerical rounds available with the GK that are as accurate as the MK?
I can get groups under 3/4" with the Federal Gold metal match with the MK, All the other rounds I have tried open up to over 1 1/4"

 

[molonlabe]

Trapperjohn

I have not had that problem personally and the performance of the gameking were adequate for my 30-06 and .308. You might want to try these. http://www.nosler.com I have heard some pros and cons but that is to be expected. I prefer test myself then make my conclusion. I have purchased some .30 cal bullets but I have not tested any yet. They may provide better grouping in your rifle but I don't believe that given the army's testing data that anything will exceed the matchking in accuracy.

 

[RaySendero]

are there any comerical rounds available with the GK that are as accurate as the MK?
.....

trapperjohn

trapperjohn,

I believe both Federal and PMC have loads using Sierra GameKings. Here's a target I shot with the PMC silver 270 Winchester load. It had 150 grain SGKs.

Pulled that one to the right!

 

[trapperjohn]

this is what i can do with match kings at 100 yds out of my cz

would like to find a suitable hunting bullet to shoot near that well

 

[Delmar]

Trapperjohn-try an equal charge of whatever powder you are using for the SMK's on a Hornady 165 grain boat tailed spire point. I did that in my Remington VS in 308, and the group did not expand at 100 yards.

I had been using Nosler ballistic tips, which are also pretty accurate but getting expensive as the years went by. Art Eatman suggested I try the Hornadys, and by golly, they do the job! Not only are they accurate enough for the headshot when you can't see the chest, they are cheaper, expansion is very good and consistent, and I don't know how much more you could ask of a bullet!

Speaking of doing the job-was at the rifle range last weekend getting in some practice, and a big, fat armadillo waddled out at the 100 yard line. He didn't waddle far.........

BTW-Thanks, Art!

 

[trapperjohn]

Delmar
thats part of the problem, I do not reload. That is why I am sking about commerical loads.

Very impressive Ray. I didnt realize at first that was a 400 yd group

 

[RaySendero]

Delmar wrote:

I had been using Nosler ballistic tips, which are also pretty accurate but getting expensive as the years went by. Art Eatman suggested I try the Hornadys, and by golly, they do the job! Not only are they accurate enough for the headshot when you can't see the chest, they are cheaper, expansion is very good and consistent, and I don't know how much more you could ask of a bullet!
.....

Delmar,
I solved the same problem you describe using bulk priced Remington CoreLokts. I needed an inexpensive bullet for practice, sight-ins and reduced recoil loads for son to deer hunt (<100yds). I now keep them around for all calibers. For an inexpensive bullet, they are the most accurate I've been able to find overall for all calibers! I'm not the only one that has found this either. 2 gunsmiths in the area I know both use corelokts to assess and fix accuracy problem clients bring them. You shouild give them a try - I've seen them on clearence recently as low as $6.50 /100 for .270. Larger calibers were a little more but not bad prices! Only trick I use on them is to round up the exposed lead on the tip with some sand paper.

 

[Matt G]

FYI, the GameKing is such a good match bullet, it was actually used to win a 1000 yard Wimbledon match in the '50's. It's often less expensive than a MatchKing, and is sometimes used for practice. When loaded in premium ammo, it's extremely accurate. I'm not capable of shooting my Sendero accurately enough to tell the difference between the GK and the MK on paper, from a rest, so I standardized on the GK load, which gives me sub .75" at 100 yds with hot heavy loads.

I've shot a couple of deer before under less than ideal circumstances, and been damned glad that the bullet held up to do its job. Once, I flat missed a deer with my first shot, but thought that I had hit him, and threw a second shot at the running buck in an attempt to anchor him. Was I ever glad that the Sierra 100g .257 Rbts spitzer held together, when I punched him too far back, and it traveled through the right rear ham, through the gut, through the liver, the diaphragm, the lungs, and came to rest against the sternum, with perfect mushrooming and 84% weight retention! A lesser bullet might have delivered complete energy transfer into the right rear ham, and then I would have had a wounded buck on my conscience.

Another time, similarly, I was shooting at another running "possibly hit" buck. The bullet struck the animal at a quartering angle, and had plenty of oomph to depart the far side, leaving a $.25-piece-sized hole, dropping the buck instantly. Less than optimum angle, but results akin to having hit a brick wall.

For hunting, I'd take a well-constructed bullet that gives 1.5" groups with superb terminal performance over a lightly-constructed bullet that gives .5" goups but questionable terminal performance, any day. Anything under 2 M.O.A., is gravy.

 

[Matt G]

RaySendero--
A few years ago (can it possibly have been a dozen, now?!?), my dad and I discovered the same thing about the bulk Remington CoreLokt bullets. Moreover, we were loading '06 with 165g Remington SP's on a Dillon 550, with thrown charges, and were getting an inch at a 100 yards. Whoa! My personal favorite is the GameKing, and I still handweigh the charges for my pet loads, but it's nice to know that there's an easy, cheaper alternative. Unfortunately, the only deer I ever took with that load was a headshot, so it didn't tell me much.