Spencer Rifle questions

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Bushpilot

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I have a few questions regarding a Spencer Rifle I just bought and am somewhat of a newbie when it comes to antique guns. It’s a three band, Spencer rifle, manufactured by Spencer. On the plus side, the bore is in surprisingly good shape with very distinct, crisp rifling and very minimal pitting for its age. The trigger and lock work flawlessly and the action is still pretty tight with a little “snap” left in it when closing. On the minus side, it has a badly broken stock in the wrist area, although it remains intact because of the internal tube and all of the action and lock screws in the wrist area. I do not know how the stock was broke and not the internal tube in the process. But, neither the tube, the stock, or the stock screws look to have been “messed with” and the internal tube doesn’t appear to be damaged. The rear sight elevator and removable magazine tube are missing. The finish is almost completely nonexistent but the surface has only minor, sporadic pitting and is mostly just “patina”. The Spencer name, address, and patent date are legible but barely. I can’t really make out any other markings or cartouches thus far. I would post a picture however, I don’t even have it home yet but will when I do.. My questions are:

First, and I think I already know the answer to this but just want to make sure, do I completely dismiss any ideas about repairing the stock? How about replacing the stock but saving the original and ensuring that it stays with the rifle when ever it leaves my possession? I just really hate seeing it broken and feel it move around every time I pick up the rifle but I understand about the significance of keeping it original as much as possible.

Second, should I attempt to locate a replacement rear sight and magazine tube, either original or reproductions?

Third, should I dismiss any ideas of ever possibly firing this rifle? If it weren’t for the broken stock and the magazine tube I am pretty confident that this rifle would function. I understand that it is a rim fire but I’ve heard that cartridges are obtainable or it can be converted to fire center fire ammo with replacement parts without permanently altering anything. I do reload and at the very least I think it would be a kick to get the rifle to function well enough to at least fire some blanks on the Fourth of July. I’m just not sure if this is a good idea.

And lastly, I know this is difficult with out even a picture but could any one give me a rough idea of what it might be worth based on my description?

Thanks for your help, thoughts and suggestions….
 
Value wise-you have a candidate for Bonham's to take a look at but they will need detailed pics. I wouldn't trust a 'restoration' of something like that to anyone but Doug Turnbull, and you are talking about spending big $$ to get what you want.

Then again:

http://www.spencerrifle.com/spencer.html

These guys say they have parts.
 
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Another possible source for parts:

www.ssfirearms.com

They specialize in original and repro parts for old guns.

I just checked S&S and they have Spencer rifle buttstocks (repro) at $125 and magazine inner tubes for $80, also repro. I have dealt with them and they are OK.

HTH

Jim
 
Why don't you post up a couple pictures of your stock? I have restored my share of antiques and repaired more than a couple stocks in my time. I would be more than happy to take a look at the wood for you. If at all possible, try and keep a stock's original wood. Especially a Spence!!

www.tomsstocksmithing.com
 
If possible, the original wood should be kept. Depending on the situation and the skill of the worker, a new piece might be glued onto or spliced into the original stock so as to preserve as much of the original as possible. I knew a woodworker (now gone from us) whose work simply defied detection even on close examination, inside and out. But that kind of expertise is rare, requiring both a woodworking skill and a knowledge of what the original should look like, both in shape and finish.

Jim
 
I shy away from glue. Glue is a dirty word. :barf:

When splicing new wood onto a stock I go the extra mile to insure the wood being used is not only the same type but of the same nationality. More for historical purposes but there is an obvious difference between Circassian walnut and American Black.
 
"Glue is a dirty word."

I used the word generically; I wasn't suggesting using the old type Iron Glue.

I assume you meant your comment that way, also, or have you found a way to do away with any adhesive substances?

Jim
 
When most guys come to me and say they have previously repaired a broken stock that has broken again, I always ask them what they used. Most of the time, it is gorilla glue. It's great stuff, just not for a gunstock.

I use Devcon 2 ton clear epoxy resin and order it in 27oz quantities. My findings have shown it is equal to or better than Acraglas which IMO, is over rated because of the Brownells name on the product. I also prefer a longer work time that the Devcon gives. Just my $02. Did not mean to sound brash or snotty towards glues or anything of the sort.
 
Thanks for the info and ideas thus far. I'm going to check with S&S for a few parts. I will try and take a couple pics of the Spencer tomorrow and post them soon. I'm thinking of buying a reproduction replacement stock to use for the time being while I explore all of the repair options on the original. Any ideas on how I can finish or "age" the repro stock so it isn't so glaringly obvious it's a replacement? I'm not looking to try and trick or fool anyone, I just want it to match the rest of the gun better than a fresh, new piece of wood.
 
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I would never go so far as to add fake character dings and dents to a repro stock, but as far as color goes you can do an aged oil finish. I have a "secret" color of alcohol based stain I use that replicates old arsenal red patina just beautifully.

If you end up getting reproduction wood and would like some info, just send me a PM and i'll be glad to help out.
Tom
 
Since most repro stocks are English walnut and most originals of that age were black walnut, it is usually easy to tell the difference if the stock is removed. The odor alone tells the story.

Jim
 
Anybody gets close enough to start smelling my gunstock is not the sort of person I want to associate with. Kind of like the jewelry salesman's attempt to minimize the value of size; promoting color, cut, and clarity over carats. Again, anybody peering at my fiancee's ring with a magnifier is likely going to get slapped.
 
Here are the pictures showing the crack in the wrist. Any rough idea what a realistic value might be? Mechanically it's surprisingly good despite it’s appearance. The rifling and barrel definately looks good enough to shoot if that ever becomes an option. As far as a replacement stock is concerned, like I said before, I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking the replacement stock (if I go that route) is original so I don't care how it smells (well, within reason..lol). I just want it to better match the color and character of the forearm.
 

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Gee, Jim, lots of folks sniff guns for cold blue. Sometimes they remind me of old hound dogs on the trail of a deer.

Jim
 
So, after looking at the pictures, any idea or rough estimates of what the realistic value of the rifle in this condition might be? The Bonhams's link in the sticky doesn't appear to be working... After seeing the pics do I try and repair it, replace it or leave it alone...???
 
If it was mine, I would repair it just to stabilize it for the future generations to enjoy.

It will not get any better in the future if left in that condition, and will very likely get far worse.

New member 4077th in post #4 offers sound advice and also apparently does the work.
I would look into him further if you don't have the skill & experience to do it yourself.

This is not the gun for a first time amateur glue job!

rc
 
I cannot say I have ever spent much time sniffing firearms. :p

Any Spencer is worth having these day's with the antique firearms market on the rise. You have a very nice rifle that would could clean up to look very nice. Not brand new (nor should it), but very nice.

The repairs would be easy for me and could be done in around 2 weeks. I am shipping 4 stocks back to their owners come Monday so i'll have more room on the operating table if you would be so inclined to have the work done by myself.

If interested I could also do a complete teardown of the rifle, rust removal, cleaning and reassembly upon completion of the stock repairs. My prices are on average 50% less than typical gunsmithing fee's.

I use a process called electrolysis to remove grime and rust from antiques as it does not harm the original patina or finish if done properly.

Regards,

Tom
 
Bushpilot, I have seen a lot worse stocks than that one seems to be, in fact, I have repaired worse than that, but don't have a shop any more to work in. It looks like someone attempted to repair it in the past and undoing that will probably be the hardest part of the job.

I would ask 4077th to send you an estimate via private mail or e-mail.

Jim
 
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