Spend a week, build a wall !
- Thread starter sd550
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real_name
member
Apparently I was wrong, this thread isn't going to be closed solely for being another anti-Mexican shouting match.
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walking arsenal
Member
I'm game.
My wife was just talking about that today as a matter of fact.
She said "funding? Heck, i bet they could get enough people to volunteer to build that thing"
I agree.
Should i bring my grill?
My wife was just talking about that today as a matter of fact.
She said "funding? Heck, i bet they could get enough people to volunteer to build that thing"
I agree.
Should i bring my grill?
madmike
Member
It didn't work for the USSR with mines, guns and guards. Why do you think it will work here?
Utter waste of time.
Just a quick calculation of the concrete and bricks needed, not to mention surveying, digging...and then trying to maintain it...
You may as well pile the money up and set it on fire. At least you'll get some useful heat from it.
Utter waste of time.
Just a quick calculation of the concrete and bricks needed, not to mention surveying, digging...and then trying to maintain it...
You may as well pile the money up and set it on fire. At least you'll get some useful heat from it.
GrammatonCleric
Member
I'm down, Heck, I'd quit my job, and MOVE to Texas in order to patrol the border. If any of you live on the border, I'll work for room and board. 
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Heh! A wall will not work because governments run the wall.
Instead of hoping that a wall will work, you create a deterrence instead. You do this not through a governemnt solution, but rather by using the free-market to solve an issue. (kind of hypocritical, as free-markets prefer open borders)
Anyhow, this is what you do.
You declare the US side of the US-Mexico border a "free fire zone". Anyone caught in this zone who is not a U.S. citizen can be shot on sight, but NOT taken prisoner. You either let them go, or you shoot them. Kind of like "catch and release"...Now, to prevent fire from going into Mexico, we'd have to back off from the actual border a few hundred yards at the least. I understand that both the government and private citizens own property on the border.
This is where it works out perfectly. All the gun-nuts in America can finally get a chance to turn their justifiable homicide-fantasies into reality by volunteering their time to be snipers on the border. Wouldn't be "volunteering" per se. More like going on a hunting trip, except for invaders of this country.
Ranchers and property owners on the border will make a lot of money by being able to sell hunting guides and access to their land. You could pay $1,000 for 5 days of lodging and access to a ATV to have your own exclusive access to a few miles of border. Others can just sell a certain number of tags per lot of land. The local border communities would prosper and boom (pardon the pun). Would create a massive new border economy.
People will get out there with all their $4,000 fancy sniper rifles, camo, ghullie suits and other "soldier of fortune" stuff. Would be fairly crazy.
Simply appealing to the homicidal nature of most Americans would be enough to create plenty of border security without ANY cost to the government. That's right! Not a single tax dollar wasted. Why create an expense for something people are willing to do for free? Or even pay a small license fee? Right now, most people don't want to be "Minute Men" how boring. Walk around with bottled water and flashlights! yuck! Tell Americans that they can actually discharge firearms at invaders and demand will soar!
Now that would get people out there!
The Border Patrol agents will no longer need to catch invaders, instead, they will become "game wardens"..and keep the civilian border protectors in line (have to have rules you know)...
Basically, there would have to be a licensing process. Anyone interested in this hunting license would have to agree to a number of special terms, as well as sign a number of waivers. That part would be a little complicated. Like no 12ga shotguns as their use would be inhumane when used at long distances. The use of hollowpoint or fragmenting ammo is a must, no non-fragmenting or non-expanding FMJ would be allowed. .22 caliber centerfires would be OK. Night hunting would be permitted...but only if the armed hunter has an individual night vision device. Poaching would be severely punished, ie.. no women and children.
BTW, I'm not serious. I think that is kind of sadistic. But this thread is already silly to begin with.
Instead of hoping that a wall will work, you create a deterrence instead. You do this not through a governemnt solution, but rather by using the free-market to solve an issue. (kind of hypocritical, as free-markets prefer open borders)
Anyhow, this is what you do.
You declare the US side of the US-Mexico border a "free fire zone".
Anyone caught in this zone who is not a U.S. citizen can be shot on sight, but NOT taken prisoner. You either let them go, or you shoot them. Kind of like "catch and release"...Now, to prevent fire from going into Mexico, we'd have to back off from the actual border a few hundred yards at the least. I understand that both the government and private citizens own property on the border. This is where it works out perfectly. All the gun-nuts in America can finally get a chance to turn their justifiable homicide-fantasies into reality by volunteering their time to be snipers on the border. Wouldn't be "volunteering" per se. More like going on a hunting trip, except for invaders of this country.
Ranchers and property owners on the border will make a lot of money by being able to sell hunting guides and access to their land. You could pay $1,000 for 5 days of lodging and access to a ATV to have your own exclusive access to a few miles of border. Others can just sell a certain number of tags per lot of land. The local border communities would prosper and boom (pardon the pun). Would create a massive new border economy.
People will get out there with all their $4,000 fancy sniper rifles, camo, ghullie suits and other "soldier of fortune" stuff. Would be fairly crazy.
Simply appealing to the homicidal nature of most Americans would be enough to create plenty of border security without ANY cost to the government. That's right! Not a single tax dollar wasted. Why create an expense for something people are willing to do for free? Or even pay a small license fee? Right now, most people don't want to be "Minute Men" how boring. Walk around with bottled water and flashlights! yuck! Tell Americans that they can actually discharge firearms at invaders and demand will soar!
Now that would get people out there!The Border Patrol agents will no longer need to catch invaders, instead, they will become "game wardens"..and keep the civilian border protectors in line (have to have rules you know)...
Basically, there would have to be a licensing process. Anyone interested in this hunting license would have to agree to a number of special terms, as well as sign a number of waivers. That part would be a little complicated. Like no 12ga shotguns as their use would be inhumane when used at long distances. The use of hollowpoint or fragmenting ammo is a must, no non-fragmenting or non-expanding FMJ would be allowed. .22 caliber centerfires would be OK. Night hunting would be permitted...but only if the armed hunter has an individual night vision device. Poaching would be severely punished, ie.. no women and children.
BTW, I'm not serious. I think that is kind of sadistic. But this thread is already silly to begin with.
Cause communits build walls to keep people in!
Joking aside, I'm in agreement that walls are just static things. You need enforcement or its just another pointless monument to xenophobia.
The idea of a wall is to slow someone down long enough to spot them or discourage them from crossing at this point. It wont stop them by itself.
If minutemen style programs start laying their hands on those that breach a wall or find gaps, we could end up with a very bad situation on our hands.
Unless the border patrol uses it and enforces that line in the dirt, you wont have anything meaningful.
Camp David
member
sd550 said:
I'll help but I have a recommendation; instead of a "wall" how about a deep "pit" dug? That way they fall in the "pit" when they try to cross? We can fill it with snakes, scorpions, and fanged critters and make it real desirable! A pit is cheaper than a wall in the long run!
madmike
Member
If you do it, save time and effort and $$ by starting the wall at Arizona. CA, it's time to surrender and retrieve the Flag.
Of course, a large number of Asian immigrants enter illegally from Canada at several major border crossings that are almost impossible to stop.
Then there's the drug planes...
Any solution will have to be political, and make sure not to avoid people who DID come legally, then had administrative problems that can run for years, while they do work and pay taxes. Been there myself. Three years with no visa.
Of course, a large number of Asian immigrants enter illegally from Canada at several major border crossings that are almost impossible to stop.
Then there's the drug planes...
Any solution will have to be political, and make sure not to avoid people who DID come legally, then had administrative problems that can run for years, while they do work and pay taxes. Been there myself. Three years with no visa.
1911 guy
Member
It can work, but...
A wall patrolled by members of our BP and NG would work, except for the fact that it is our own government that wants the influx of illegals. They drive down wages and standard of living, but we as Americans have proven too resillient to cave fifteen years ago when the problem started geting bad, so our economy is being "outsourced" to further drive down the economy and standard of living. Welcome to the global economy. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
I wish it were as easy as adjusting a tin hat to make the future look brighter.
A wall patrolled by members of our BP and NG would work, except for the fact that it is our own government that wants the influx of illegals. They drive down wages and standard of living, but we as Americans have proven too resillient to cave fifteen years ago when the problem started geting bad, so our economy is being "outsourced" to further drive down the economy and standard of living. Welcome to the global economy. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
I wish it were as easy as adjusting a tin hat to make the future look brighter.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
real_name said:
We don't use that one here. You're new to this forum so it's OK once.
Keep the IBTL's and +1's somewhere else please.
As for the wall, it sounds good on the surface, but as a poster mentioned in another thread, the Soviets tried building walls, see where that got them.
Remove the incentive for people to come across.
madmike
Member
Please document these "Facts" and why the government would consider it desireable to reduce wages and the standard of living?
Japan's imported "junk" (from the 1950s, not "fifteen years ago") has improved to where it costs more than American made. So has Taiwan's. Korea's is catching up. China and India will take a while, they're larger.
Oh, nooooo, the whole world is becoming RICH! What are we to do in this global economy?
We'll be exploiting Zimbabwe in 20 years. You watch.
Why adjust it? Just take it off and recycle it.
RealGun
Member
This is the kind of stuff that makes me glad that Senators are having a responsible discussion on the matter. Too many polls have little to do with what would be the "right" thing to do. People who have to answer for the outcome should make the call.
TX35
Member
I'd give a week!!!!
1911 guy
Member
MadMike,
First off, I'm not lumping LEGAL immigrtion into this mess. My family are recent additions in the last couple generations, so please don't think you're in any way a target here.
So here goes. An illegal can and will work for substantially less due to several factors. Under-the-table paychecks, not paying taxes and communal living all contribute to this. So does owning one set of clothes, hitching a ride to work every day and not paying for health insurance.
Fifteen or twenty years ago is when two things began to happen. Our trade inequities began to catch up with us and illegal immigration began to be more of a problem because of increasing numbers. These two economic factors feed on one another, although they are not directly related.
Also, the cost of goods made in asian countries has not gone up at all. The profit level for the execs making import deals, however, has skyrocketed. If costs were at all similar, why would our own execs have the desire to farm out our work?
Japan is very unique in that they have always had an industrial base and rebuilt it after WWII. They have a good standard of living, we import some very well made electronics and autos from them and they crave all things western in return. I've eaten at a KFC in Yokusaka.
China, Taiwan and Korea will never reach the economic success of the U.S. or Japan. They arrived in the 21st century with antiquated manufacturing and a largely unskilled workforce. Those who have learned skills are seeking jobs in the tech fields (think India. Call for tech sup. for your computer some time. Not good english, but they do know the machines.). The unskilled labor force is being exploited to keep the high profit margins at the expense of repressing the very people who are providing the labor. The corporation I work for bought a Chinese company two years ago. I'll tell you about the working and living conditions sometime. It'll make living in Hell's Kitchen seem like a fairy tale.
In short, I hate to rain on your parade, but while immigration has been and will be a source of innovation and a wellspring of new talent and skills, illegal immigration is a drain on any society. Once the economic strain further seperates the citizens from the intruders, social pains are sure to follow. We're seeing this in europe right now with the unrest in several countries, some openly, some under the surface where you've got to be on the watch to see it happening.
First off, I'm not lumping LEGAL immigrtion into this mess. My family are recent additions in the last couple generations, so please don't think you're in any way a target here.
So here goes. An illegal can and will work for substantially less due to several factors. Under-the-table paychecks, not paying taxes and communal living all contribute to this. So does owning one set of clothes, hitching a ride to work every day and not paying for health insurance.
Fifteen or twenty years ago is when two things began to happen. Our trade inequities began to catch up with us and illegal immigration began to be more of a problem because of increasing numbers. These two economic factors feed on one another, although they are not directly related.
Also, the cost of goods made in asian countries has not gone up at all. The profit level for the execs making import deals, however, has skyrocketed. If costs were at all similar, why would our own execs have the desire to farm out our work?
Japan is very unique in that they have always had an industrial base and rebuilt it after WWII. They have a good standard of living, we import some very well made electronics and autos from them and they crave all things western in return. I've eaten at a KFC in Yokusaka.
China, Taiwan and Korea will never reach the economic success of the U.S. or Japan. They arrived in the 21st century with antiquated manufacturing and a largely unskilled workforce. Those who have learned skills are seeking jobs in the tech fields (think India. Call for tech sup. for your computer some time. Not good english, but they do know the machines.). The unskilled labor force is being exploited to keep the high profit margins at the expense of repressing the very people who are providing the labor. The corporation I work for bought a Chinese company two years ago. I'll tell you about the working and living conditions sometime. It'll make living in Hell's Kitchen seem like a fairy tale.
In short, I hate to rain on your parade, but while immigration has been and will be a source of innovation and a wellspring of new talent and skills, illegal immigration is a drain on any society. Once the economic strain further seperates the citizens from the intruders, social pains are sure to follow. We're seeing this in europe right now with the unrest in several countries, some openly, some under the surface where you've got to be on the watch to see it happening.
madmike
Member
1911 Guy:
It's undoubtedly a problem. I'm just reminding people that some "cures" are impossible, unAmerican, or unaffordable.
As long as Commiefornicans will whine for free medical care, drivers' licenses, free medical care, etc, for illegals, no physical means will stop illegals. They know we won't shoot them (Can't), they know the Mexican authorities don't care, and the risk of dying in transit is a FAIR TRADE for what's at this end, IN THEIR OPINIONS, or they wouldn't be doing it.
There is NOTHING, short of summarily executing them, which we CANNOT do, that will make the risk of jumping the border greater than the potential rewards.
I don't have an answer. I'm just explaining the logic behind the government proposals.
Feel good or feel bad idiocy (pardon me for calling it that) about building walls or declaring free fire zones makes for amusing recreation, but will accomplish less than nothing at great expense or criminal conspiracy. I'd rather discuss things that MIGHT help.
It's undoubtedly a problem. I'm just reminding people that some "cures" are impossible, unAmerican, or unaffordable.
As long as Commiefornicans will whine for free medical care, drivers' licenses, free medical care, etc, for illegals, no physical means will stop illegals. They know we won't shoot them (Can't), they know the Mexican authorities don't care, and the risk of dying in transit is a FAIR TRADE for what's at this end, IN THEIR OPINIONS, or they wouldn't be doing it.
There is NOTHING, short of summarily executing them, which we CANNOT do, that will make the risk of jumping the border greater than the potential rewards.
I don't have an answer. I'm just explaining the logic behind the government proposals.
Feel good or feel bad idiocy (pardon me for calling it that) about building walls or declaring free fire zones makes for amusing recreation, but will accomplish less than nothing at great expense or criminal conspiracy. I'd rather discuss things that MIGHT help.
rchernandez
Member
FOLKS YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!!!
Deciding to build the wall and funding it will get us half way there...we hire all of "prospective guest (workers)" to build it and they will not have to think of going any further north! Take the Pentagon estimate for building such a project...fund 1/10th of the budget. Employment!!! right there on the border!
Deciding to build the wall and funding it will get us half way there...we hire all of "prospective guest (workers)" to build it and they will not have to think of going any further north! Take the Pentagon estimate for building such a project...fund 1/10th of the budget. Employment!!! right there on the border!
WayneConrad
Member
Sure, build a wall, but let's go after the real problem.
Build it around D.C.
Build it around D.C.
1911 guy
Member
What does Mexico do?
The trade off you mention, the possibility of arrest or harm from attempting to get into the U.S., is accurate. If the Mexicans and others didn't feel it was worth the risk, they wouldn't try it, so your assessment is right. However, we need only look one country south to see a program that works. Mexico has an illegal alien problem of their own, people from countries south of them looking to transit Mexico en route to the U.S. Mexico, however, knows what a drain it is on an economy and a society, so they work very hard to stem the flow from the south. A large portion of their military (we can use National Guard) and police force (think Border Patrol) heavily patrol their southern border. Arrests are frequent and often violent. Mexican authorities have quite a reputation recently and guess what? Their problem is lessening as the people seeking to get here are looking for other avenues to gain entry into the U.S.
The lesson learned is that if we make the risk or probability of capture much higher, and no, I'm not suggesting shooting them, the tide may slow due to the increased risk and less chance of a payoff. Our system also needs work to make life here more difficult on them without burdening our citizens or resident aliens any more than we already are. Current immigration law requires basic english, written and spoken. No english, no job. Hired an illegal? Go to jail, do not collect 200 dollars. My Mother retired from a hospital, so here's one of my pet peeves. You should get the same care your country of origin would provide to an American tresspasser. To a mexican, that means none. You're sick? Go back to Mexico for a doctor, we won't help you. I remember a recent (year or two ago) story of an American citizen jailed in Mexico who needed medical attention. The local police refused to cooperate with the embassy, insisted the family post bond to release him for care. Every time the family came up with the cash, the price went up. There was no bail, just a greedy jailer and the man died in Mexican custody. Tell me again how nice we need to be to folks who want to take advasntage of us.
The trade off you mention, the possibility of arrest or harm from attempting to get into the U.S., is accurate. If the Mexicans and others didn't feel it was worth the risk, they wouldn't try it, so your assessment is right. However, we need only look one country south to see a program that works. Mexico has an illegal alien problem of their own, people from countries south of them looking to transit Mexico en route to the U.S. Mexico, however, knows what a drain it is on an economy and a society, so they work very hard to stem the flow from the south. A large portion of their military (we can use National Guard) and police force (think Border Patrol) heavily patrol their southern border. Arrests are frequent and often violent. Mexican authorities have quite a reputation recently and guess what? Their problem is lessening as the people seeking to get here are looking for other avenues to gain entry into the U.S.
The lesson learned is that if we make the risk or probability of capture much higher, and no, I'm not suggesting shooting them, the tide may slow due to the increased risk and less chance of a payoff. Our system also needs work to make life here more difficult on them without burdening our citizens or resident aliens any more than we already are. Current immigration law requires basic english, written and spoken. No english, no job. Hired an illegal? Go to jail, do not collect 200 dollars. My Mother retired from a hospital, so here's one of my pet peeves. You should get the same care your country of origin would provide to an American tresspasser. To a mexican, that means none. You're sick? Go back to Mexico for a doctor, we won't help you. I remember a recent (year or two ago) story of an American citizen jailed in Mexico who needed medical attention. The local police refused to cooperate with the embassy, insisted the family post bond to release him for care. Every time the family came up with the cash, the price went up. There was no bail, just a greedy jailer and the man died in Mexican custody. Tell me again how nice we need to be to folks who want to take advasntage of us.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Best suggestion yet....
PinnedAndRecessed
member
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A wall is not necessary. Simply remove the incentive for being here.
This solution is not practical, however, because our elected officials completely ignore the electorate. Their motivation is a single country out of Canada/US/Mexico. That is the conspiracy.
This solution is not practical, however, because our elected officials completely ignore the electorate. Their motivation is a single country out of Canada/US/Mexico. That is the conspiracy.
1911 guy
Member
Removing the incentive
Our politicians are indeed hard at work removing the incentive. Haven't you noticed the recent trend of "outsourcing", the code word for prostituting our economy to the lowest bidder in exchange for the trinket of world opinion and corporate profits? Another twenty years and you and I will be illegal aliens looking for jobs in China and Korea. How well do you think we'll be received?
Our politicians are indeed hard at work removing the incentive. Haven't you noticed the recent trend of "outsourcing", the code word for prostituting our economy to the lowest bidder in exchange for the trinket of world opinion and corporate profits? Another twenty years and you and I will be illegal aliens looking for jobs in China and Korea. How well do you think we'll be received?
madmike
Member
1911 Guy, you miss some basic facts.
Mexico's southern border is MUCH SMALLER than ours.
I DO NOT WANT violent, brutal cops in ANY role.
Federal law says you are entitled to emergency medical care. It is NOT the hospital's responsibility to determine your citizenship. They can't, and I DON'T WANT the government subletting that much power (life and death) on a whim.
Yeah, we could just deny anyone who looks like a "spic" and doesn't have 3 photo IDs and a birth certificate on them at all times any jobs, medical care or civil rights, rough them up with clubs and cattleprods and dump them south of the border. It would solve the problem.
We wouldn't be America anymore.
That would be a bigger problem.
Mexico's southern border is MUCH SMALLER than ours.
I DO NOT WANT violent, brutal cops in ANY role.
Federal law says you are entitled to emergency medical care. It is NOT the hospital's responsibility to determine your citizenship. They can't, and I DON'T WANT the government subletting that much power (life and death) on a whim.
Yeah, we could just deny anyone who looks like a "spic" and doesn't have 3 photo IDs and a birth certificate on them at all times any jobs, medical care or civil rights, rough them up with clubs and cattleprods and dump them south of the border. It would solve the problem.
We wouldn't be America anymore.
That would be a bigger problem.
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