Spitzer Bullets in a Model 94, Just Wondering

[Old Grumpy]

If the rounds are loaded directly into the chamber (not using the tube magazine) can spitzer bullets be used in a Winchester Model 94?

I realize this will make a single-shot out of the Model 94 but it could lead to more accuracy and a slightly longer range. Depending on the specific bullet used I could use the same bullets for the .30-30 and for the .30-06.

Has anyone tried this and if so what were your results? Just wondering....

 

[helotaxi]

Longer range, slightly, yes; but no effect on accuracy. And, yes it can be done but it completely defeats the purpose of a lever action rifle to do so.

 

[68wj]

Hornady's FTX bullets are the solution to this. You can load them in you mag and they will give you spitzer-like ballistics.

 

[jmr40]

Actually you can load 1 in the chamber +1 in the mag for a 2 shooter. With 30-30 ballistics you gain very little though.

 

[BCRider]

Doing so will gain you as much as what the Hornady soft tip bullets provide. And their claims are pretty dramatic.

The danger is that you COULD end up with more than one in the magazine tube if at some point you lose track of what is loaded and what isn't. So there's much to recomend the option of top loading one at a time if using those bullets or using the Hornady Leverevolution soft tips to avoid the issue.

 

[mastiffhound]

I have wondered the same thing. With my Marlin 336's micro rifling it would have superb accuracy I think. It already does stupendous with the Hornady ammo. The Hornady Leverevolution still don't have the ballistic coefficient of real spitzer bullets. Why did you have to remind me of this? Now I have to go and get some new dies to reload some 30-30 spitzer rounds. I had thought of this months ago but it left my mind because I was reloading .223, it makes my OCD act up and I forget what I think about usually.

 

[Old Grumpy]

Longer range, slightly, yes; but no effect on accuracy. And, yes it can be done but it completely defeats the purpose of a lever action rifle to do so.

Granted it defeats the purpose of the lever action but it could possibly add a bit to the uses for the old .30-30. In open country where brush cutting is not an issue a spitzer could add a few more yards to the effective range of the Model 94.

Like I said, just wondering.

 

[Old Grumpy]

Doing so will gain you as much as what the Hornady soft tip bullets provide. And their claims are pretty dramatic.

The danger is that you COULD end up with more than one in the magazine tube if at some point you lose track of what is loaded and what isn't. So there's much to recomend the option of top loading one at a time if using those bullets or using the Hornady Leverevolution soft tips to avoid the issue.

This could be a problem but I'm leaning towards the "single shot top loading option". Depending on the OAL and bullet design rounds feeding smoothly from the magazine might be an issue.

 

[R.W.Dale]

At the ranges a 94 would be usefully accurate at (200yds) you'd gain nothing by going to a spitzer bullet. In fact you'd be at a disadvantage to normal 30-30 ammunition because you're now shooting a bullet designed to expand at 700fps + faster than you can push it.

At 30-30 hunting ranges BC really doesn't matter at all with your MPB range extending only slightly. Based on a 150yd zero with 150g ammunition a spitzer bullet only gets you a whopping 1/2 inch less drop to 200yds compared to RN bullets.

You want to use your 30-30 farther? Then get a rangefinder and a ballistic calculator




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

 

[jmr40]

Doing so will gain you as much as what the Hornady soft tip bullets provide. And their claims are pretty dramatic.

If you look a little closer at Hornadys ballistic charts they are showing their plastic tipped bullets with a 200+ yard zero while everyone else shows their 30-30 ammo with a 100 yard zero. Zero some traditional RN bullets @ the same range and at the same velocity and the difference is not nearly as dramatic. Spitzer bullets only help out at ranges well over 200 yards in any chambering.

 

[Old Grumpy]

At the ranges a 94 would be usefully accurate at (200yds) you'd gain nothing by going to a spitzer bullet. In fact you'd be at a disadvantage to normal 30-30 ammunition because you're now shooting a bullet designed to expand at 700fps + faster than you can push it.

At 30-30 hunting ranges BC really doesn't matter at all with your MPB range extending only slightly. Based on a 150yd zero with 150g ammunition a spitzer bullet only gets you a whopping 1/2 inch less drop to 200yds compared to RN bullets.

You want to use your 30-30 farther? Then get a rangefinder and a ballistic calculator




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

R.W. Thanks for the post. You gave me quite a bit to think about. I had not thought about bullet expansion/velocity issue. In the last few years they have made some strides with lever-action friendly bullets. I have a good selection of bullets to choose from that were designed for the .30-30 and its velocity.

 

[Abel]

The purpose of a lever action is to kill deer. Loading a 125 gr Sierra Pro Hunter 308 cal. with some Hornady LE powder should do the trick. I don't think that this bullet will have any issue expanding at 30-30 velocity.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Before the Hornady FTX and LVR, I was using RL15 and good old CorLokt bullets.
Still do.
Zero your .30/30 3"high at 100yds just like the .300Magnum crowd does.
The 3" high zero gives you a ~160yd POI/POA and is ~4.5" low at 200yds. This equates to a 200yd point-blank range (aim and shoot...).
The last time I hunted with this combo (170gr Corlokts @ 2,300fps), I nailed two deer on the run w/3 shots. Shots were 120-170yds... or where I was zero'd. The land owner (who was carrying his 11lb .270wbymag), never unshoulderd his rifle and starred at me with awe for 10 seconds. He said he'd never seen anything like that.... He said he finally understood the .30/30 and lever-actions... He'd always thought that the Hollywood movies were just "stunts". (most still are....).
I've "played" with the "spitzer" bullet notion. Even owned two bolt-action .30/30's..... But now only own them in l/a form....
For a truly wonderful deer bullet, try the 150gr Corlokt over 36.0gr of RL15. My 20"bbl Marlin/Glenfield gives right at 2,400fps (corrected to muzzle, 85degF, 800'elev.). It is devastating on deer to ~200yds.... Only recovered one bullet, and it was fired into a shoulder on a deer at 27yds. Bullet was recovered lodged against inside of pelvis (deer was trotting towards me, I was sitting in a folding chair). Classic "deadliest mushroom in the woods form... 3" entry wound on shoulder....expelled bone chips!...).

No need to 2-shoot your repeater...
Now to the real question... low power scope or reciever sights..????

 

[303tom]

I load .30 WCF & get damn near .308 number`s out of them, but I use em in my Handi-rifle.........

 

[Jubjub]

My uncle has a 25-35 Model 94 that he uses as a 2 shot, loaded with 87 grain spitzers.

 

[jr_roosa]

I tried it with 150s and wasn't impressed. Also it really hard to get a spritzer loaded round out if the mag when you load it a little long and try to mag feed it. It takes about four hands to back it out the loading gate again.

Stick with the round nose stuff.

J.

 

[wlewisiii]

Sure you can. 1+1 is easy.

Me? I load it up with nice 170 gr Remington Core-Lokt HP's and stalk a little closer.

 

[helotaxi]

Granted it defeats the purpose of the lever action but it could possibly add a bit to the uses for the old .30-30. In open country where brush cutting is not an issue a spitzer could add a few more yards to the effective range of the Model 94.

Like I said, just wondering.

You have a .30-06, why bother?

 

[lefteyedom]

Back 20 years ago I loaded 150 Spitzer for my Savage 340 30/30. Basically had a 300 Savage performance from a 30/30. I considered having it rechambered for the Ackley 30/30 improved. Would have done it, had someone not offered me $100 more than I paid for the rifle...

 

[Malamute]

If you look a little closer at Hornadys ballistic charts they are showing their plastic tipped bullets with a 200+ yard zero while everyone else shows their 30-30 ammo with a 100 yard zero. Zero some traditional RN bullets @ the same range and at the same velocity and the difference is not nearly as dramatic. Spitzer bullets only help out at ranges well over 200 yards in any chambering.

If you look closer at the Hornady numbers, not only do they use different zero ranges, they use different sight heights, which affects the outcome, and they use their own 170 gr bullet for comparison. They are fine game bullets, but have the worst BC of any 30-30 bullets that I've found, making the leverevolution loads look better yet. Almost any other make of 30-30 bullet has a better BC than the Hornay 170 gr. Look at the Speers for instance, the 170's run about .290 BC, the Hornady 170's are under .200 I believe.

Hornadys trajectory numbers for the leverevolution bullet comparison are misleading at best.

I've shot Hornadys and Speers with the same loads used at 300 yards. The difference in point of impact was very noticable, the Hornady 170's dropping much more.

I agree, within normal range for 30-30 use, which I'd go up to 225-250 if one is able to shoot well enough at those ranges, the common bullets, sighted in properly, work fine. Not much is gained by the spitzers, and one has to keep in mind the velocity that the bullets will work well in. The only real advantage to the leverevolution that I can tell is that they maintain their velocity a little better, giving a little more effective range because of the remaining velocity, rather than any great gains in trajectory over most mainstream 30-30 loads.