Spitzer vs. Hollow point .30 cal bullets ?

[spalit]

i've been reloading for my tikka .308 for a few months now, and have tried out a bunch of bullets. It seems to like the 165gr gameking & the 168 gr matchking sierras the best. I haven't noticed any difference between them on the range where i shoot (which is 200 yds max). So my question is, when would you use the 165 gr hollow point boattail over the 165 gr spitzer boattail bullet? Does it depend on the kind of game being hunted, range over a certain yardage?

thanks...

 

[Farnham]

168 gr SMK's aren't legal for hunting, far as I know (which ain't far). MatchKings might as well be FMJ, the "hollow point" isn't meant to aid expansion. If they are legal, they're at least not the best choice. They don't expand at all, so a soft point or hollow point with the same accuracy would be my choice for ANY hunting at ANY range.

Not to say SMK's aren't deadnuts accurate, I use them in my M1A and my Savage .308, but I'm shooting paper.

If I'm wrong, somebody let me know, since all my reloads sport SMK's, and I've never got around to building an SP or HP "hunting" load for my .308s. If SMK's work and are legal, I'm good for when I can afford to go deer hunting!

S/F

Farnham

 

[MachIVshooter]

As Farnham said, the Matchking would be a poor choice for hunting. The Gameking, on the other hand, has proved itself for more than a half century. I have taken a great many animals with 117 gr. Gamekings that I launch at 3194 FPS from my 700 BDL .25-06. Recently I decided to try Barnes triple shock X-bullets, since accuracy proved good and the all-copper construction will make them a better penetrator on elk-size game-a serious consderation when chasing Wapiti with a quarterbore. Other good bullets include the Nosler Accubond, Swift Scirocco and Combined technology Failsafe. Traditional spitzers such as the Trophy Bonded, Core-lokt and Grand slam work fine too, though. I personally prefer boattails since long shots are kinda my thing, but flat base bullets will certainly do the job.

Basically, you need to find an expanding bullet that shoots well. If the 165 gr. Gamekings do that, go with them.

 

[ziadel]

why not a Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet?

would'nt that do it?

 

[Cpl Punishment]

If you can ever get to shoot at long range, you'll notice a difference in accuracy. But it'll pretty much be beyoind game hunting distances.

The SMKs are not designed to expand, and while legal in most areas (prohibitions are against FMJ bullets, not "hollowpoints that don't expand"), even Sierra will recommend against hunting with them. They don't expand at longer ranges and at close range tend to fragment, and will destroy most of the meat of what you're hunting.

Stick with the GameKing if that's what your rifle likes. Other good bullets are the Brnes and CT Failsafes.

I'd avoid ballistic tips for a .30 cal. They are varmint bullets and will destroy a lot of meat on game. If you're blowing up 'chucks or something, they're great.

 

[Gewehr98]

That's not true.

I'd avoid ballistic tips for a .30 cal. They are varmint bullets and will destroy a lot of meat on game. If you're blowing up 'chucks or something, they're great.

You have to choose the proper Ballistic Tip for the application. Nosler has branched their Ballistic Tip lineup into two separate categories since the bullet's introduction: Ballistic Tip Hunting and Ballistic Tip Varmint. The hunting bullets are now designed to retain their weight after impact, while the varmint bullets still come apart spectacularly after impact. Looking at the lineup today, the only .30 caliber Ballistic Tips are the green-tipped 125-180gr Ballistic Tip Hunting bullets, they don't offer a .30 caliber bullet in the Ballistic Tip Varmint series.

Nosler did the redesign of the bullets, and the branching into two categories, after getting feedback about their explosive performance on deer-sized game. I was one of those guys who discovered what early Ballistic Tips would do to a Wisconsin whitetail. My 6.5-06 and 120gr Ballistic Tip created deer soup, for lack of a better term. Pretty little copper flecks everywhere. Nosler listened, and hence the redesign.

As an aside, a Nosler Ballistic Tip of a given caliber and weight will have a ballistic coefficient better than it's Sierra MatchKing or GameKing counterpart.

 

[Art Eatman]

We had a Sierra person join in a thread at TFL on this, a few years back. CAmopng other things, the discussion compared the 150-, 165- and 180-grain bullets, with hollow point, spire point, flat-based and boat-tailed shapes; all Game Kings.

For the 150-grain: Don't drive the boat-tails above 2,900 MV or thereabouts. The jackets are thinner. (Which is why I had a bullet blow up in a mule deer's neck at 30 yards.) Flat-based, no problem.

I've found that the 165-grain HPBT will blow a really big exit hole in smaller white-tails. Right at fist-sized. I'm dubious they'd really be good for penetration on an elk.

At 500 yards on steel, the 180-grain SPBT makes notably more crater than either the 150-grain or the 165-grain. I'd think it would be a good elk bullet.

I've been able to stay within one MOA with the GameKings at 100 and at 500 yards...

FWIW, my father killed a helluva lot of deer with the 150-grain Hornady spire point with basically the old GI powder charge. That's an MV around 2,700 or thereabouts.

I never had any problems on Bambi with the Remington 150-grain Bronze Point. Dunno, really, why I changed to the Sierras; probably because of the boat-tails and the longer probable shooting distances in my hunting area.

Art

 

[spalit]

sorry, I should have clarified... I certainly don't intend on using the 168gr MK bullets for hunting . But I noticed that there are 2 kinds of 165gr gamekings. One the hollow point, and the other wth a spitzer soft point. I was wondering if the two kinds had different uses or not..?

 

[rbernie]

The HP is supposed to open up a bit faster than the SP. Sierra's recommendation is generally to use the HP on thin-skinned game without too much bone mass while the SP is suitable for bonier (but still not dangerous) stuff.

 

[Sunray]

"...when would you use the 165 gr hollow point boattail over the 165 gr spitzer boattail bullet?..." Hi. It's a six of this/half dozen of the other, thing. For hunting, the GameKing is the bullet to use. MatchKings are for, well, matches. A 165 grain bullet is a dandy all 'round bullet for hunting most game.
A 200 yard range is more than a lot of guys have. However, 165 grain bullets drop like rocks past 300 yards. Have a look at this. http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/centerfire/results.asp?cal=33
It's for Remington factory ammo but you'll get an idea of where to sight in.

 

[Art Eatman]

Trajectory: I loaded my usual Sierra 150-grain SPBT; and, a box each of Sierra 165-grain HPBT and 180-grain SPBT.

At 500 yards there wasn't a nickle's worth difference between them for point of impact. I held a bit less windage with the 180s.

Art

 

[MachIVshooter]

why not a Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet?

Because they go in, break apart and don't come out, which means no blood trail to follow. The Nosler Accubond is a bonded version of the ballistic tip and is considered by all the gunwriters to be a superior bullet. I personally have not tried them, but bonded bullets are always more reliable.

 

[Dr.Rob]

165 Sierra SPBT Game King all the way... it's a well designed bullet that I've used for years.

I've had my fill of 'wonder bullets' like the Bronze Point (accurate as hell but wow do they 'explode' like a varmint round sometimes, leaving BIG holes and destroying a lot of tissue... however I also had one (180 gr) fail spectacularly... blowing up on the surface, killing the animal (antelope) but NO penetration to the vitals. NONE. I put them back on the shelf.

I've seen ONE partial jacket seperation in a game king in 20+ years of hunting with myself, my dad and my brother all using the same 165 gr bullet... we obviously don't retrieve every round (esp. not with antelope) but it seems to stay intact while mushrooming, leaving a .45-50 cal hole on exit on most game. Some larger deer and elk will stop a bullet completely, and you find it buried in the opposite shoulder, etc.

 

[ziadel]

Because they go in, break apart and don't come out, which means no blood trail to follow. The Nosler Accubond is a bonded version of the ballistic tip and is considered by all the gunwriters to be a superior bullet. I personally have not tried them, but bonded bullets are always more reliable.

well that sucks, but unfortunately Winchester Supreme seems to be the only hunting round that will stand up to operation in a roller locking firearm

Mebe I'll give the Fail Safes a whirl...

 

[llsierra]

165 grain Sierra Bullets

Howdy,

The first "real bullets" I ever used for .30-06 handloading were the 165 grain Sierras. They performed just as well as the 168 gr SMK and did the job on deer. The Hollow point version, imho, is too much bullet for a Texas Hill Country Whitetail, destroys too much meat, and kills them deader than dead. (That huge open front end of the 165 HP IS impressive) The 165 gr SP is less destructive and still does the job, with no need to use expensive Nosler Partitions. Save the Noslers for your Elk hunts and Africa, when the 220 grain and 200 grain partitions become more suitable anyway.

LLS

.30-06 Browning Safari and Mannlicher-Schoenauer