This will be an open question and just one of the methods I am using to educate myself. I recently started shopping for a carry knife, maybe a 4" blade. I want spring assisted open and as comfortable to carry as possible. Some I have seen are bulky and course with little attention to finish. I've seen some polished stainless steel finish that looks great, but they can be too slippery. And it must be American made. Of course, I'll be handling lots of them in the next while and will probably end up buying several. But, I would love to hear from you knife guys out there. I have a few fixed blade Buck, Schrad, Gerber, and a couple of others, but recently decided it might be wise to carry a good knife. I used to carry a pocket knife, but they slide out of the pocket easily and I've lost several. I will appreciate hearing your thoughts. Let's set the budget at under $200. Thanks for your help. Tom
Spring assist knives?
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CopperFouling
Member
I like the Zero Tolerance 0566. The blade is not four inches (3.25" instead), but it's a nice size. There are several versions under $200 that have ELMAX blades with stonewashed finishes, and they definitely open quickly.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Kershaw and Colonial make Spring assists Knifes .
Got mine at Tractor Supply Company on Clearance for $6:95.
Got mine at Tractor Supply Company on Clearance for $6:95.
In my opinion 4" is pushing it for every day use, 3.25"-3.75" works better for me. The ZT is an option. The Benchmade Barrage or Mini Barrage I like better though if it has to be spring loaded.
https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Toleran...469331359&sr=8-2&keywords=zero+tolerance+0560
https://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Ba...9330499&sr=8-4&keywords=benchmade+barrage+581
Not a bad knife for the money, but a step down from Benchmade or ZT
https://www.amazon.com/Kershaw-Knif...8&qid=1469331255&sr=8-2&keywords=kershaw+blur
Not spring loaded, but the Spyderco Military or Paramilitary are very flat and carry well for their length, the handles have just enough texture to be grippy. I don't mind spring loaded knives, but don't find them any faster or easier to open than the Spyderco or even those with just a flipper and no spring. I'd look at these, you may decide spring loaded isn't as important as you thought.
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Par...30607&sr=1-2&keywords=spyderco+paramilitary+2
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Mil...469330658&sr=1-4&keywords=spyderco+military+2
I've got lots of knives including all of the above and many others. The one I reach for more often than any other. It is small, light, thin, razor sharp, and fairly inexpensive. It isn't meant for heavy duty use and if I need a heavier knife will often carry a 2nd, heavier knife. Plus there is always a sturdy knife in the truck if I need it.
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Del..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=A86AW7H72NZ25NF6FFK0
https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Toleran...469331359&sr=8-2&keywords=zero+tolerance+0560
https://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Ba...9330499&sr=8-4&keywords=benchmade+barrage+581
Not a bad knife for the money, but a step down from Benchmade or ZT
https://www.amazon.com/Kershaw-Knif...8&qid=1469331255&sr=8-2&keywords=kershaw+blur
Not spring loaded, but the Spyderco Military or Paramilitary are very flat and carry well for their length, the handles have just enough texture to be grippy. I don't mind spring loaded knives, but don't find them any faster or easier to open than the Spyderco or even those with just a flipper and no spring. I'd look at these, you may decide spring loaded isn't as important as you thought.
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Par...30607&sr=1-2&keywords=spyderco+paramilitary+2
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Mil...469330658&sr=1-4&keywords=spyderco+military+2
I've got lots of knives including all of the above and many others. The one I reach for more often than any other. It is small, light, thin, razor sharp, and fairly inexpensive. It isn't meant for heavy duty use and if I need a heavier knife will often carry a 2nd, heavier knife. Plus there is always a sturdy knife in the truck if I need it.
https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Del..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=A86AW7H72NZ25NF6FFK0
spazzymcgee
Member
I carry a Benchmade Barrage 580 every day. It's a classy American made AO with great balance and blade design. I use it as a utility knife. The only thing I could recommend more is a Barrage 580-2!
CopperFouling
Member
OP, if you're not set on an AO knife, jmr40 is completely right. AO isn't necessary. That opens some other great options, such as the PM2 that jmr40 mentioned, and some others in the ZT lineup to which I am partial, like the 0562.
How big do you want the replacement to be? 4 inches? Here's a few that may interest you...some do not meet all the qualifications, but they are outstanding knives should you want to make comparisons to them before committing.
FWIW, IMO a manual action folder is faster to deploy than either a spring mechanism found in autos, or a torsion bar mechanism found in assisted openers, and is usually more reliable.
If a 3.5 inch blade is acceptable, and you want the most compact form factor, then the Benchmade 940, 943, or 941 in CPM-S30V blade steel may be of interest...it is amazing how they stuffed so much knife into so little of a package!!! It is also possibly the easiest knife to open in the history of knives!!!
Should you be willing to go over $200, then it's worth looking at the Chris Reeve Sebenza, in my opinion, as it is the industry benchmark of production folders. Les George's Project VECP takes it up a further notch.
ZT/Kershaw makes a TON of different knives, and many push the boundaries of production folders. It may be worth running through the offerings
https://zt.kaiusaltd.com/knives
ZT450
Adamas
710 & 940
Ti Millie & Anoed Ti Millit
TR-4
Base TR-3
Manual TR-3 (incredible folder)
CRK Seb
- Benchmade Adamas AutoAxis
- Benchmade Adamas Manual Axis
- Benchmade Volli
- Benchmade 490 Adamas Flipper
- Benchmade 710
- Spyderco Titanium Military
- ProTech TR-4
- ProTech TR-3
- ZT566
- ZT562
- ZT450
- Microtech LUDT
- Microtech Socom Manual
FWIW, IMO a manual action folder is faster to deploy than either a spring mechanism found in autos, or a torsion bar mechanism found in assisted openers, and is usually more reliable.
If a 3.5 inch blade is acceptable, and you want the most compact form factor, then the Benchmade 940, 943, or 941 in CPM-S30V blade steel may be of interest...it is amazing how they stuffed so much knife into so little of a package!!! It is also possibly the easiest knife to open in the history of knives!!!
Should you be willing to go over $200, then it's worth looking at the Chris Reeve Sebenza, in my opinion, as it is the industry benchmark of production folders. Les George's Project VECP takes it up a further notch.
ZT/Kershaw makes a TON of different knives, and many push the boundaries of production folders. It may be worth running through the offerings
https://zt.kaiusaltd.com/knives
ZT450
Adamas
710 & 940
Ti Millie & Anoed Ti Millit
TR-4
Base TR-3
Manual TR-3 (incredible folder)
CRK Seb
Sorry...one more for the list. ----- Benchmade Ritter Griptilian -
Benchmade & Doug Ritter made a high-performance version of the Griptilian. The Ritter Grip uses a high-flat grind, great geometry, and premium steels (in the past, CPM-S30V, M2, & CPM-M4.) The current version uses Bohler M390 Microclean stainless steel. M390 is insane. It holds a ridiculously long edge and it has a surprising amount of toughness. Compared to other steels that have similar edge-holding capabilities to M390, M390 is easier to sharpen. Half of my most frequent EDCs are made from M390 and use a very thin angle that most stainless steels can't hold...even with this super thin edge, I estimate that the M390 blades hugely reduces the frequency of sharpening.
While people love the blade, the Ritter's handle is a little clunky for some. Many companies began offering aftermarket Ritter scales made of many different materials (titanium, aluminum,, carbon fiber, G10 composite, woven nylon.) Just purchasing a different knife with a different handle is quicker & less expensive. Such a willingness to invest the time & money says a lot about the Ritter!!!
Full sized Ritter in standard layout
Ritter with titanium scales
Ritter with anodized aluminum scales
Benchmade & Doug Ritter made a high-performance version of the Griptilian. The Ritter Grip uses a high-flat grind, great geometry, and premium steels (in the past, CPM-S30V, M2, & CPM-M4.) The current version uses Bohler M390 Microclean stainless steel. M390 is insane. It holds a ridiculously long edge and it has a surprising amount of toughness. Compared to other steels that have similar edge-holding capabilities to M390, M390 is easier to sharpen. Half of my most frequent EDCs are made from M390 and use a very thin angle that most stainless steels can't hold...even with this super thin edge, I estimate that the M390 blades hugely reduces the frequency of sharpening.
While people love the blade, the Ritter's handle is a little clunky for some. Many companies began offering aftermarket Ritter scales made of many different materials (titanium, aluminum,, carbon fiber, G10 composite, woven nylon.) Just purchasing a different knife with a different handle is quicker & less expensive. Such a willingness to invest the time & money says a lot about the Ritter!!!
Full sized Ritter in standard layout
Ritter with titanium scales
Ritter with anodized aluminum scales
22-rimfire
Member
I would look at the Benchmade Barrage line and Zero Tolerance (ZT). I have found a 4" blade on a EDC folder to be a bit large. It really depends where your routine days are spent as to what is practical.
Blade First
Member
ZT 0350TS...it has been in my carry rotation for three years now [the other mainstay is a large Sebenza 21].
Meets all your parameters: flat, excellent steel, AO, quad-mount for a really sturdy clip, G-10 scales and well under budget. And yes, it's all American.
Meets all your parameters: flat, excellent steel, AO, quad-mount for a really sturdy clip, G-10 scales and well under budget. And yes, it's all American.
When working thru the technological changes over the last 35 years some things came to hand that seemed to be better than others. We can suggest a hundred knives but the real issues are materials and shape.
Blade steel - there are lots of new custom alloys out there but for the most part a medium cost stainless is the best value. 154CM or ATS134 gets the job done well with the least amount of resharpening, plus isn't a bear to touch up like the higher cost alloys. They work with you, not against you. I have a high end knife with S30V steel that has an incredibly hard to dull blade - but it's equally hard to resharpen. Steels that resist abrasion also resist sharpening, as that is just controlled abrasion to gain an edge. Be thoughtful about what you ask for.
Edge geometry has a big influence, a flat ground blade is generally better at full cutting as there is no swedge grind to jam into the cut. Some think that a heavy blade is needed for hard use but the down side is that it becomes more and more a sharpened pry bar - and if that's the job, a sharpened pry bar does pretty good especially with a hand sledge. Since it's a folding pocket knife and not a collapsible piton for extreme use the thinner blades cut better and have more control. The tip design is something a lot of makers are playing with these days but for the most part a simple drop point gets it done across the board.
The frame construction has become pretty standard, two slabs of metal with a large pivot pin and ferrules to space it. What material raises the cost exponentially, and whether its skeletonized affects weight. Titanium frames are nice but not cheap.
Grips are the part you hold and feel, metal grips in aluminun are cold to the touch and can be slippery. A lot of higher end knives use G10 now and with a gripping surface they are warm to the touch and hard to drop. They can also be too abrasive to pockets and it has to be balanced - a seriously checkered grip can and will cut a slot in a jeans pocket quickly. Large crosscuts and jimping on the blade and frame back can assist in gripping - or they can be too much and create friction points causing blisters. It's very dependent on the user and his interaction.
The lock has narrowed down to the traditional back lock, which is somewhat rare these days, the liner lock, frame lock, and Axis lock. In the better grade of knives they all work. It becomes a matter of habit which is preferred, and despite the tactical talk about which is best, it boils down to the issue of having to - in extremis you only have a pocket knife anyway. Good luck with that. A knife is better than no knife.
Along with that is tip up or tip down. A lot of people decide on that matter based on having stuck their hand down into the pocket and finding the blade open. A good knife shouldn't do that, YMMV. It happens.
That brings us to the clip - which most modern using knives have had for over 25 years now. Mounted high on the grip or lower to expose more of the butt is another feature some have a preference for - or not. Knives that have alternate mounting points offer four places to carry which allows tip up or down right or left handed. All those pads and screw holes do affect the aesthetic look to some degree.
As for spring assist the choice is based on your states legal requirements and how they are enforced by local LEO's. One state may prosecute for carrying a normal Buck liner lock visible to the public, another may allow concealed carry of an automatic. I'm happy to say my state prefers the latter. The majority of states seem to allow assisted opening. How the knife opens in any fashion goes to thumb holes, studs, or discs on the blade, a button lock, or extended kick protruding out the back of the frame. If anything there are almost too many choices now and varying levels of having a secure grip doing it. And if spring powered the makers are currently using higher pressures which snap the blade open with some force. You have to hang on now, a light grip will lose the knife.
The largest part of the market now is under 4" stainless blades with liner or framelocks, black grips, and $100+ pricing. For the most part those were rare knives 15 years ago but are dirt common today. They are good knives overall, the problem is choosing one tree out of the forest. Look to what features you want and narrow by those and it will help sort things out - then go find them and actually put your hands on one. It can make a big difference when you handle them.
Blade steel - there are lots of new custom alloys out there but for the most part a medium cost stainless is the best value. 154CM or ATS134 gets the job done well with the least amount of resharpening, plus isn't a bear to touch up like the higher cost alloys. They work with you, not against you. I have a high end knife with S30V steel that has an incredibly hard to dull blade - but it's equally hard to resharpen. Steels that resist abrasion also resist sharpening, as that is just controlled abrasion to gain an edge. Be thoughtful about what you ask for.
Edge geometry has a big influence, a flat ground blade is generally better at full cutting as there is no swedge grind to jam into the cut. Some think that a heavy blade is needed for hard use but the down side is that it becomes more and more a sharpened pry bar - and if that's the job, a sharpened pry bar does pretty good especially with a hand sledge. Since it's a folding pocket knife and not a collapsible piton for extreme use the thinner blades cut better and have more control. The tip design is something a lot of makers are playing with these days but for the most part a simple drop point gets it done across the board.
The frame construction has become pretty standard, two slabs of metal with a large pivot pin and ferrules to space it. What material raises the cost exponentially, and whether its skeletonized affects weight. Titanium frames are nice but not cheap.
Grips are the part you hold and feel, metal grips in aluminun are cold to the touch and can be slippery. A lot of higher end knives use G10 now and with a gripping surface they are warm to the touch and hard to drop. They can also be too abrasive to pockets and it has to be balanced - a seriously checkered grip can and will cut a slot in a jeans pocket quickly. Large crosscuts and jimping on the blade and frame back can assist in gripping - or they can be too much and create friction points causing blisters. It's very dependent on the user and his interaction.
The lock has narrowed down to the traditional back lock, which is somewhat rare these days, the liner lock, frame lock, and Axis lock. In the better grade of knives they all work. It becomes a matter of habit which is preferred, and despite the tactical talk about which is best, it boils down to the issue of having to - in extremis you only have a pocket knife anyway. Good luck with that. A knife is better than no knife.
Along with that is tip up or tip down. A lot of people decide on that matter based on having stuck their hand down into the pocket and finding the blade open. A good knife shouldn't do that, YMMV. It happens.
That brings us to the clip - which most modern using knives have had for over 25 years now. Mounted high on the grip or lower to expose more of the butt is another feature some have a preference for - or not. Knives that have alternate mounting points offer four places to carry which allows tip up or down right or left handed. All those pads and screw holes do affect the aesthetic look to some degree.
As for spring assist the choice is based on your states legal requirements and how they are enforced by local LEO's. One state may prosecute for carrying a normal Buck liner lock visible to the public, another may allow concealed carry of an automatic. I'm happy to say my state prefers the latter. The majority of states seem to allow assisted opening. How the knife opens in any fashion goes to thumb holes, studs, or discs on the blade, a button lock, or extended kick protruding out the back of the frame. If anything there are almost too many choices now and varying levels of having a secure grip doing it. And if spring powered the makers are currently using higher pressures which snap the blade open with some force. You have to hang on now, a light grip will lose the knife.
The largest part of the market now is under 4" stainless blades with liner or framelocks, black grips, and $100+ pricing. For the most part those were rare knives 15 years ago but are dirt common today. They are good knives overall, the problem is choosing one tree out of the forest. Look to what features you want and narrow by those and it will help sort things out - then go find them and actually put your hands on one. It can make a big difference when you handle them.
Tirod,
Thanks for your thoughts. I've been researching knives and plan to start buying one or two or three after handling many of them at a gun and knife show this weekend. In another year, I will have a better handle on what works for me. Your help is appreciated....especially the part about acceptable steel in the blade. I received a fixed blade knife as a gift once and the steel is so hard that once it became dulled, it sits in the back of my gun cabinet waiting for the day I remember to take it somewhere to be sharpened.
Thanks for your thoughts. I've been researching knives and plan to start buying one or two or three after handling many of them at a gun and knife show this weekend. In another year, I will have a better handle on what works for me. Your help is appreciated....especially the part about acceptable steel in the blade. I received a fixed blade knife as a gift once and the steel is so hard that once it became dulled, it sits in the back of my gun cabinet waiting for the day I remember to take it somewhere to be sharpened.
Given what you've outlined I'd take a hard look at the ZT 0452cf. It seems to fit everything you want. If you decide you don't actually want a 4" folder ZT has some other great AO offerings in shorter blades.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJkCRWxqKQk
It's a decent size knife to carry but if that is what you want and that works for you don't listen to others that are constrained by stupid laws, environments full of sheeple who are scared of a pocket knife, or who personally think anything larger than a manbug is a burden to have in their pocket or offers no utility.
Benchmades are good knives but I personally believe that one gets more value from ZT and spyderco generally speaking.
What and how one carries will depend on lots of factors that will be dramatically different for others. My tastes have changed and personally I've gone more to small fixed blades and my expensive folders get less use. You may buy a 4" folder and find its great or may realize something like a delica is really plenty of knife.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJkCRWxqKQk
It's a decent size knife to carry but if that is what you want and that works for you don't listen to others that are constrained by stupid laws, environments full of sheeple who are scared of a pocket knife, or who personally think anything larger than a manbug is a burden to have in their pocket or offers no utility.
Benchmades are good knives but I personally believe that one gets more value from ZT and spyderco generally speaking.
What and how one carries will depend on lots of factors that will be dramatically different for others. My tastes have changed and personally I've gone more to small fixed blades and my expensive folders get less use. You may buy a 4" folder and find its great or may realize something like a delica is really plenty of knife.
Not sure what your gunshow are like, but beware of knockoffs. If the price is too good per your research walk away. OTOH, the knives from Reat, We and other very high quality Chinese companies that have come onto the US market under their own brand are remarkably good.
Also, understand that many companies are making flipper folders with an enhanced detent and super smooth pivot systems that feel like assisted openers and these shouldn't be overlooked.
Also, understand that many companies are making flipper folders with an enhanced detent and super smooth pivot systems that feel like assisted openers and these shouldn't be overlooked.
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I'll second everything hso said.
Be very careful at a gunshow,fleamarket, swap meet, etc. The counterfit knife industry is huge. Like he said, walk away if the deal is just too good.
Also if you are looking at an AO just for speed many bearing flippers are just as fast.
Plus the "wave" is faster than anything other than a fixed. And Emerson's are in your price range.[emoji106]
Be very careful at a gunshow,fleamarket, swap meet, etc. The counterfit knife industry is huge. Like he said, walk away if the deal is just too good.
Also if you are looking at an AO just for speed many bearing flippers are just as fast.
Plus the "wave" is faster than anything other than a fixed. And Emerson's are in your price range.[emoji106]
gillmeister692
Member
Hubertus automatics. "Geschmiedet*Rostfrei". Made in Solingen, Deutschland.
Well guys, I found a Benchmade dealer at the gun show. Found several others too, but nothing that appealed to me and saw no knock-offs. After trying several, I bought a Benchmade Volli. It fit my hand perfectly and meets all my needs for $135 tax included. KnifeCenter.com sells them for $148.50, MSRP is $175. So not a bad price. The assist feature was the best I tried, plus it has safety that keeps it from opening in my pocket. Unfortunately it didn't come with an anti-clumsy feature and I proceeded to whack my finger...ouch! I did learn that the S30V steel blade is really sharp. Oh well, live and learn. Once my finger heals, I'll be oh so happy. Thanks for all your help.
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