Spring kindness??

[P95Carry]

I know we have discussed - several times - the magazine spring issue. How long to keep mag charged before giving it a ''rest''.

But - what about guns kept in condition #1?

I have for a change - and much as anything cos of use in IDPA shoots - chosen to give SP a short rest and carrying instead my BHP practical - also because I have aquired a super rig that is cat's miaow. Love the gun.

I never spent much time with semi carry in condition # 1 but - now am doing it I wonder - those of you who do this all time - when do you allow that mainspring to ''relax''. If the gun is (as mine) bedside at night - then I want to leave it as is - cocked and locked but - over time, what is effect on spring fatigue? Constant compression .. heck, the BHP spring is strong!! Lot of compression poundage there.

Interested to hear take from 1911 guys I guess in particular. When and how often - do you give the whole system a rest?

 

[sm]

I'm probably not the one to ask . Carrying a 1911 or BHP condition 1 ...
Mine got / get a break when I inspect and maintain, clean , or put that one up in storage.
Oh- There is that range dealie " clear and make safe"

 

[P95Carry]

There is that range dealie " clear and make safe"

Haha! That's the easy one Steve. But no more IDPA now till next April.

So - if I keep this as carry for some time, and, it feels good, sits well, plus, I shoot it (for me) darned well - then this is a lot of sustained spring compression over time. Sure, it'll get cleaned - even for lint etc but - chances are it might be con' #1 for days on end ... thus the wonder about how guys tackle this.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

I would consider the springs in the gun themselves to be the same as for mags. Constant compression and release will wear out the spring a lot faster than leaving it in one state or another (as long as it isn't being over-compressed). Or at least, that's what I remember reading.

 

[SnakeEater]

I would consider the springs in the gun themselves to be the same as for mags. Constant compression and release will wear out the spring a lot faster than leaving it in one state or another (as long as it isn't being over-compressed). Or at least, that's what I remember reading.

This is absolutely correct. If a spring is compressed inside of its "safe zone" it can stay in that condition almost indefinately. On the other hand a spring that is constantly being compressed and uncompressed, will wear out much sooner. The issue of mag springs weakening after being stored loaded is baloney, urban legend, and a myth. The only way a spring weakens is from overextension/overcompression or simply too much use. Heck, the mainspring is not something I'd even consider worrying about, it's probably one of the very last springs that would need replacement.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mag Springs

Bingo. It's the repeated cycles that weaken springs. As long as they're not overcompressed, good springs will last longer than you will.

However...Being anal-retentive on the reliability thing...I rotate my loaded carry magazines about every 3 months. I ran a test a while back with a new Wolff 10% extra-power spring. Left it loaded for 18 months. The tension didn't drop one ounce, so the main issue may actually be the constant stress on the floorplate welds than anything else.

I also rotate my range magazines, and store the ones on furlough with the springs at free-length with the followers taped to the sides of the mags.
This lets the springs completely relax and they'll actuall un-set slightly.
Been usin' the same Wolff springs hard for several years, and haven't had a problem.

Had a personal involvement in 1991 with a Commercial Colt that had been stored in an attic in Condition One since the death of its owner. When fired,
the gun functioned perfectly. The kicker was that the owner died in 1929.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Maddock]

P95, I don’t think that the mainspring is an issue.
My only “long term test†piece is a Colt 5â€. The mainspring is on it’s second top end and still will set off my test cases – cut down 30-06 cases with magnum rifle primers. This mainspring has had at least a quarter million cycles (85,000 live rounds, at least twice that number of dry cycles), and was in condition one most of the time it wasn’t being fired or cleaned for over fifteen years. I don’t have any means to test the spring compression weight, but it seems about the same as a new Springfield I handled a few weeks ago.

 

[P95Carry]

Thanks Maddock, Johnny, Snake etc ..... points taken. As an engineer I appreciate re over compression and cycling etc .... but I guess because the BHP is tad ''precious'' ... I was just aware of what enormous loading the mainspring is under when hammer cocked.

I would give as an example of spring fatiguing an air gun .... even tho the spring is ''relaxed'' unless the gun is cocked - there is definitely, over time, a set taken. This is for sure worse it seems if the gun is left cocked long term. There is tho here the factor of extreme compression ... very often coils are close to bind, but not quite.

It's all down to my empathy with the spring!!

I shall cease to worry tho.

 

[SnakeEater]

P95, I see what you're getting at. I'd say just about all of us have our "precious" too, so I can understand what you're saying. Think of it like this: Police K-9's. These dogs are bred to work, and work they do. Working and pleasing their master is their life's mission. So it is with handguns. When you start feeling sorry for them just remember that working is what they're made for. I get a tad choked up myself when I see safe queens, kinda like keeping a greyhound caged up all of the time.

 

[Dave Sample]

I am amazed at the things you guys do! Imagine installing a mainspring on a top end. I thought I had tried everything! Mine always rest in the mainspring housing down in the butt of the gun tight next to the magazine well. Oh well, Like O.F says, I have a lot to learn!

 

[B36]

Springs

Guys think a little bit.
Valve spring in your car, one hour 60MPH, at 2000rpm, how many open and close cycles???

Now multiply that by 1000 to give a rough idea of cycles for 60,000 miles.

Properly made springs do not wear out. Break? Yes. The single biggest hoax perpertrated on gun owners by aftermarket people.

 

[horge]

Interesting point, B36.

What is the difference in dimensions between a valve spring and a typical recoil-or magazine spring? Not just coil size but wire diameter. Can we assume the wire material and springcoil post-treatment are comparable, or not?

 

[MrMurphy]

I switch my carry mags out with my others every six months, and shoot the carried ammo off, buy a new box, reload from stores. This rotates my ammo and my mags same time.


I've shot ammo from mags loaded 10 years before no problem.

 

[1911Tuner]

Valve Springs and Other Things

Quote:
Can we assume the wire material and springcoil post-treatment are comparable, or not?
______________________

Not.

Not all springs are created equal. Automotive valve springs are designed with that number of cycles in mind. Recoil springs aren't. They're considered to be expendable as part of a routine maintenence/repair inspection. While good recoil springs assuredly don't wear out in 2,000 cycles, they do lose tension with use.

Since they're easy to replace as compared to replacing valve springs in an
OHV V-8 engine, they don't HAVE to run for that many cycles. If a recoil spring in an internal combustion engine fails, the result could be catastrophic
damage to the whole engine, as any bracket racer who has dropped a valve
in the staging area can attest. (Ask me how I know)


Apples to oranges. A better comparison would be chrome silicon springs to
music wire.

 

[JohnKSa]

Fully compressing a spring and leaving it that way for a long time will certainly weaken the spring.

Here's the documentation using several spring piston airguns as the testing media and the velocities of the airguns as the measure of spring health.

http://www.funsupply.com/airguns/cocktest.html

Muzzle velocity recorded at each period in time was the average of 5 shots. VO = prior to test; V1 = gun left cocked for 1 week, 24 hrs per day (168 hrs); V2 = gun left cocked for 2 weeks, 24 hrs/day (336 hrs);
V4= left cocked for 4 weeks (672 hrs); V12 = left cocked for 12 weeks (2,016 hrs) and V24 = 24 weeks (4,032 hrs). At each period, gun uncocked and left uncocked for 72 hrs to allow the spring to regain as much as possible of its original power (memory effect).

Average velocity loss was about 26% after the spring had been left compressed for 24 weeks.

I have a book with a similar test showing similar results.

So how do I reconcile that with anecdotes about pistols being left fully loaded and cocked for years with no ill effects? Here's what I think is going on.

From what I can determine from my research:

If the spring is TOP QUALITY (the very best in terms of materials, manufacture & heat treat) then it can be left fully compressed for long periods of time with little deterioration.

OR, if the spring is NOT fully compressed (only partially compressed--not coil-bound) then it can be left in that condition with little deterioration even if it is not top quality.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx John .... this does bear out some of my thinking.

 

[B36]

A spring does not know if it is open or closed.

Put many thousands of rounds thru my first C Gov Model, purchased by my Dad for me in 46. My boys hand it back and forth today. Never changed a spring.

50K thru the first Glock 17, sold it in about 93, still all original springs except as changed in recall [enhancement]. Last time I saw the purchaser, it was still as when I sold it and fine.

Suggest the SDM recoil spring tester available from Brownells. Something else to remember is that a recoil spring has two rates.