I have a Springfield Armory so called Mil Spec stainless 1911. It's got a shelf on the hammer instead of a true captive half cock notch. I can't get used to that, having used too many 1911's with the old style notch. I like it that on half cock the hammer and sear are interlocked, the trigger can't move, the sear can't move, and the hammer can't move. The entire group is disabled until the hammer is cocked. Someone in the group said If that doesn't fit the requirements for a safety, I'd like to know what does. Can I replace the hammer that came from the factory with an identical one with the captive notch without screwing something up? I remember memorizing all three of the safety's on the 1911 way back in ROTC in the '50s. Thanks.
Springfield Armory 1911 Mil Spec half-cock question
- Thread starter laocmo
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That hammer shelf is intended to capture the hammer if it falls of the full cock notch without the danger that the sear could break out the full cock notch. It is located far enough down that if the sear is pulled off the shelf, the gun can't fire. I know of no reason you can't replace that hammer with an old style one, but make sure the sear is not so thick as to break out the half-cock notch.
The half-cock was indeed intended to be a safety, and it was the ONLY safety Browning used on his hammer guns (with the exception of some early pistols to which Colt insisted on adding a safety) until the 1911 which had both grip and manual safeties installed at the insistence of the US Army, also over Browning's objections. In other words, carrying a 1911 "cocked and locked" is NOT doing as JMB intended.
Jim
The half-cock was indeed intended to be a safety, and it was the ONLY safety Browning used on his hammer guns (with the exception of some early pistols to which Colt insisted on adding a safety) until the 1911 which had both grip and manual safeties installed at the insistence of the US Army, also over Browning's objections. In other words, carrying a 1911 "cocked and locked" is NOT doing as JMB intended.
Jim
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
One can argue the intercept notch is not a safety, and using it as one is not as safe as lowering the hammer all the way down against the slide.
In that position, you can drop the gun on the hammer, or beat it flat with a sledge hammer and the gun cannot fire. (The inertia firing pin is too short to reach a primer without a hammer impact to drive it out of the slide.)
On the intercept notch (half-cock), a dropped gun can shear a pin or break the notch or sear and the impact will fire the gun.
The second thing is, the grip safety spur protects the hammer from impact when it is fully cocked & locked.
But it doesn't protect the hammer on half-cock.
Fully lowered, it doesn't need to be protected, as it is resting firmly against the slide.
One can also argue that we have learned a few things about 1911's since Browning designed it a hundred years ago.
That is why your gun doesn't have an intercept notch any longer.
It is a safer system then using the intercept notch for a safety.
rc
In that position, you can drop the gun on the hammer, or beat it flat with a sledge hammer and the gun cannot fire. (The inertia firing pin is too short to reach a primer without a hammer impact to drive it out of the slide.)
On the intercept notch (half-cock), a dropped gun can shear a pin or break the notch or sear and the impact will fire the gun.
The second thing is, the grip safety spur protects the hammer from impact when it is fully cocked & locked.
But it doesn't protect the hammer on half-cock.
Fully lowered, it doesn't need to be protected, as it is resting firmly against the slide.
One can also argue that we have learned a few things about 1911's since Browning designed it a hundred years ago.
That is why your gun doesn't have an intercept notch any longer.
It is a safer system then using the intercept notch for a safety.
rc
"we have learned a few things about 1911's since Browning designed it"
Actually, the carry fashions have changed and the internet sites are full of folks yelling that a 1911 should be carried "cocked and locked" because that was the way the great JMB wanted it. I just thought it would be interesting to note that JMB didn't really want any safety except the half-cock.
Jim
Actually, the carry fashions have changed and the internet sites are full of folks yelling that a 1911 should be carried "cocked and locked" because that was the way the great JMB wanted it. I just thought it would be interesting to note that JMB didn't really want any safety except the half-cock.
Jim
Mizar
Member
My grandfather, a WW2 veteran, told me many times, while teaching me firearms safety, that the only proper way to carry a SA pistol was loaded chamber and hammer on the half cock notch. He did not even know that 1911 existed. I have talked with many "old timers" and they all tell the same - half cock notch, half cock notch... Do we realy think that we are somehow superior to these people? Or that they were something like... retarded? I do not want to start another meaningles debate, but just to point out that "there are many ways to skin a cat" - like you Americans like to say.
Boris
Boris
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Folks used to carry six rounds in a Colt SAA with the hammer on the safety notch too.
But a lot of old cowboys had a stiff leg gimp from hitting the hammer spur with a stirrup when saddling up old flea bag in the morning.
rc
But a lot of old cowboys had a stiff leg gimp from hitting the hammer spur with a stirrup when saddling up old flea bag in the morning.
rc
A common way of carrying the SAA with six rounds was to drop the hammer between rounds, essentially the same way as was done with the percussion Colts with safety pins and the Remingtons with slots. It works OK for most calibers, but in the .45, there is almost no gap between rounds for the hammer nose.
Jim
Jim
GeoffC
Member
I'm sure a lot of people have carried them decades longer than me, but for 13 years I've carried a Colt 1911 about 97% of my waking hours. I carry the pistol on the half cock with one in the chamber.
I know the gun fighter guru's, many of whom have and never will use their gun for anything more than a sales tool(gun salesmen and firing range employees) insist that there is just no chance you'll have time to cock that hammer and still be alive if shooting takes place. If you're paying enough attention to what's going on around you, no reason not to just use the hammer. People just get off on the fact that they have a locked and loaded gun with the hammer back on their hip...
If it get's to the point where I feel the hammer needs to be back, the gun will be in my hand and the thumb safety will be in the "FIRE" position...
I'd argue that short of a bulldozer falling on the hammer(in which case you're gun discharging is the least of ur problems) that metal that holds the sear captive at half cock on single action pistols is as safe as it gets. I mean there is a chunk of steal holding it....
I know the gun fighter guru's, many of whom have and never will use their gun for anything more than a sales tool(gun salesmen and firing range employees) insist that there is just no chance you'll have time to cock that hammer and still be alive if shooting takes place. If you're paying enough attention to what's going on around you, no reason not to just use the hammer. People just get off on the fact that they have a locked and loaded gun with the hammer back on their hip...
If it get's to the point where I feel the hammer needs to be back, the gun will be in my hand and the thumb safety will be in the "FIRE" position...
I'd argue that short of a bulldozer falling on the hammer(in which case you're gun discharging is the least of ur problems) that metal that holds the sear captive at half cock on single action pistols is as safe as it gets. I mean there is a chunk of steal holding it....
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