Springfield Civil War Rifle/Musket

[Fish828]

I have an old rifle/musket (I don't know what the proper terminology is) that has been passed down through my family. I was told that it was used in the Civil War. I don't know anything about antique guns so I was hoping that some of you guys might be able to give me a little insight about the gun, including any information or how much it may be worth. I am sorry for the pictures, my camera sucks, but I tried to do my best. The gun seems to be in fairly decent condition and don't let the pictures fool you, there is no rust on it (even though the metal areas look reddish but that is just the camera). It also has a bayonette that is not pictured. It has "Springfield" and "1863" stamped in the metal along with what appears to be a crest with an eagle. I'm sorry if I didn't use the correct terminology and I thank everyone for their help ahead of time.

 

[Jim Watson]

I am not an expert but it sure looks like an 1863 Springfield rifle musket (rifled barrel as long as a musket's) to me.
Flayderman says it is a Type II with lockplate date of 1864 and a few detail differences from the Type 1 which would be dated 1863. 255,040 made in addition to 273,265 of the Type I. The last standard issue muzzleloader.

 

[4v50 Gary]

You've got a U.S. Rifle-Musket, Model 1863, Type II.

These were stamped 1864 behind the hammer on the lock plate. 255,040 were made and it is the last muzzle loading rifle-musket issued to the U.S. Army. It should have solid barrel bands (unable to determine from your photos) and band springs (I see one in front of the foremost band that is near the brass nosepiece). The rear leaf sight is graduated to 500 yards and is held in place by two pins/studs and a spanner screw. Your ramrod is the typical tulip head type (while the latter knurled, slotted type that looks like an Enfield's ramrod was used later) which is correct for the gun.

The bayonet should have a clamping band mortise in the socket that is cut two-tenths of an inch longer than its predecessor bayonet. With a blade length of 18", the overall length of the bayonet is 20 15/16". "US" should be stamped on the blade.

Do not remove the patina.

Do you have the family history? Which relative carried it and what unit did he serve in? If you can ID the man, go to the National Archives and dig out his service record and then his pension record (if any). Keep these with the gun. Always.

I'm no expert but a few years ago at the Nashville Civil War Gun Show (Dec.) I saw similar guns without the bayonet go for $1,200. I hope this heirloom stays in your family for a long time. Getting the papers will only help enhance its value to your family. Get the oldest member of your family to write a short note attesting to how it came to be handed down.

 

[4v50 Gary]

BTW, you should try to go to the North-South Skirmish Association National Matches in Virginia. Goggle them up. They've plenty of experts who could tell you a lot about that gun. Bring the bayonet too.

I should have added that guns of that type were the standard infantry arm during the American Civil War. It's predecessor, the 1855 Springfield Rifle Musket differed from it in having the Maynard Tape Primer which could be used in lieu of percussion caps. It also had a brass patch box. When the war started, the Maynard Tape Primer and brass patch box was omitted to increase production and reduce the cost. This newer model became the 1861 Springfield. Still other changes in the barrel band followed (1863 Springfield) but they were all essentially the same gun. Along with the British Enfield (P-53), the Springfield were carried by most Union soldiers and supplemented by numerous other alternate officially adopted guns.

If you have a chance to go to Springfield Armory National Historic Site, you'll see plenty of Springfield Rifle Muskets there.

BTW, you posted in the right forum, but I'm moving it to the black powder forum where many of our members will enjoy seeing your photos. Post some pics of your bayonet when you get a chance. Thanks!

 

[mec]

140 years apart

Same rifle.

 

[Fish828]

thanks a lot for the feedback and information. it's both very interesting and eye-opening. i have no intentions of selling it, i was just curious as to it's origins and history and you guys did just that. i knew this was the place to come to

 

[4v50 Gary]

Your welcome, but...

C'mon Fish. Pony up. Share the story. What's his name and what unit? Any stories passed down? Where are his letters, or diary or journal? Any dagueorrotypes? If you post a daguerrotype, modify part of it (like putting your initials across part) so no one can lift it and use it later without your permission.

 

[Fish828]

haha i would if i could. my grandmother is the one that currently has the musket and she says she got it from my great great uncle, who was kind of a recluse and didn't really to talk to anyone, even family members. unfortunately, he died before anyone had the sense to try to find out the back story on the musket/whose it was/any real details. i would love to know myself but it seems as if the musket's story may be lost in the pages of history. if by some miracle i find out anything else, i will be sure to share. thanks once again.

 

[Anderson]

I have a very similar musket. The date behind the hammer is 1864 and "U.S. Springfield" is clear. The eagle is not so clear.
I was told this was a Type II but there is one characteristic that perplexes me....

It has just 2 barrel bands rather than 3.

Can anyone explain?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Shorter 2 band rifles were made from time to time.

 

[pohill]

I babysat one recently for a local high school history teacher while he went on vacation. We fired it last summer (it's an original). He uses it in his history class. He also has the bayonet.

 

[scrat]

Wow very nice pic all of them guys. Very nice

 

[bigjohnson]

Reference 2-band Springfields with 33-inch barrels:
(1) There are no records at Springfield Armory that any such guns were manufactured or contracted for.
(2) According to Flayderman's Guide To Antique American Firearms (7th Edition) by Norm Flayderman, "The collector is urged to be wary of such specimens. There is no record of the manufacture or alteration to such size or length in otherwise detailed annual government reports. It is the author's opinion that such 'models' are non-armory. The shortening could have occurred during the civil war or later by parties as yet unknown."

 

[Mac Attack]

I saw two rifles similar to your's on a used rifle rack. I can't tell if they are originals but they had a real nice patina and some age marks (pitting and scratches) on them. They were asking $900+ for them. Is this a bad price?

 

[kentucky bucky]

One thing is , don't assume it's not loaded. You would be amazed how many old muzzleloaders are found to be loaded. If it was kept dry the powder can still be dangerous after a LONG time.

 

[sharps59]

as 4v50 said go to the NSSA site get a hold of john Holland. He is head of the small arms comette. If any one know he will