Springfield EMP Ronin 3" need feedback please

[megatronrules]

I'm thinking about getting one of these soon. I handled one a while back and from what I remember right it did seem smaller in all dimensions than the Colt defender I used to own. Springfield touts this gun as being built around the 9mm cartridge.

I know the grip frane is shorter from back to front. But my question about the EMP 3 inch is is the rest of the frame and slide also smaller than any other 3" 1911 chambered in 9mm? It seems from all I've read a out the Ronin EMP 3" seems that it's the smallest 1911 in 9mm,in that it's downsized in the frame and slide for an all around smaller gun? Thanks for any help on this as any info would really help me decide if I should get this gun as my next purchase thanks all.

 

[ctdair1]

Have a 3inch Emp pre Ronin association. Works great for me.
Wife shoots all the other handguns we have with zero issues. The Emp just doesn’t work for her. Multiple issues. She doesn’t limp wrist it. Shoots other 1911 style pistols in 9mm and .45
Runs 100% for me all day everyday.
Daughter has her own Emp runs 100% for her

 

[megatronrules]

Have a 3inch Emp pre Ronin association. Works great for me.
Wife shoots all the other handguns we have with zero issues. The Emp just doesn’t work for her. Multiple issues. She doesn’t limp wrist it. Shoots other 1911 style pistols in 9mm and .45
Runs 100% for me all day everyday.
Daughter has her own Emp runs 100% for her

Thanks for the info,also how would you say it compares size size to a Colt defender 1911? Is it an all around smaller pistol?

 

[ctdair1]

Smallest 1911 we have is Commander size. EMP much smaller overall. .45 Colt Defender is probably larger than EMP by necessity because of Caliber.

 

[someguy2800]

All the dimensions are the same as a normal 1911 except that the basically took 1/8” out of the grip length to match the 9mm cartridge length. They did not narrow the frame or slide or reduce the height of the side.

If you are looking for a 1911 style pistol that is actually shrunken down in all dimensions, take a look at a Star model BM or Star BKM.

 

[ctdair1]

All the dimensions are the same as a normal 1911 except that the basically took 1/8” out of the grip length to match the 9mm cartridge length. They did not narrow the frame or slide or reduce the height of the side.

If you are looking for a 1911 style pistol that is actually shrunken down in all dimensions, take a look at a Star model BM or Star BKM.

It is definitely not just 1/8 shorter. Below is a quote from Springfield.

Rather than simply shortening the barrel and slide like most compact 1911 pistols, the EMP also shortens the frame and action . In fact, the pistol features 11 proprietary parts distinct from a standard 1911 as a result of this adaptation. The end result is a pistol with a reduced grip radius for both enhanced comfort and concealability. Proprietary parts include the frame, slide, firing pin, firing pin spring, extractor, ejector, trigger, plunger tube, plunger tube assembly, grips and magazine.

 

[someguy2800]

It is definitely not just 1/8 shorter. Below is a quote from Springfield.

Rather than simply shortening the barrel and slide like most compact 1911 pistols, the EMP also shortens the frame and action . In fact, the pistol features 11 proprietary parts distinct from a standard 1911 as a result of this adaptation. The end result is a pistol with a reduced grip radius for both enhanced comfort and concealability. Proprietary parts include the frame, slide, firing pin, firing pin spring, extractor, ejector, trigger, plunger tube, plunger tube assembly, grips and magazine.

Yeah those are all the parts that also need to be shortened when you section 1/8” out of the grip length.

If you have a caliper handy can you measure yours? The normal with of a 1911 frame is 0.75”, and a normal slide is .920” wide. The height of the slide not including the sights is about 1.000” to 1.050” depending on if it’s rounded or milled flat.

 

[Riomouse911]

Yeah those are all the parts that also need to be shortened when you section 1/8” out of the grip length.

If you have a caliper handy can you measure yours? The normal with of a 1911 frame is 0.75”, and a normal slide is .920” wide. The height of the slide not including the sights is about 1.000” to 1.050” depending on if it’s rounded or milled flat.

These measurements may not be of great help, but it may give you a starting point or two for comparison. I measured a couple of different 1911 style pistols:

Springfield Armory Loaded 5” .45 ACP.
Springfield Armory Ronin 4.25” 9mm.
Kimber Ultra Carry II 3” 9mm.



I used a Dillon dial caliper. Not the worlds greatest scientific device, but pretty good for the uses I have.

Here are the measurements I got based on what you asked for.



Hopefully someone has the EMP you are looking for to compare to these ones .

Stay safe.

 

[bangswitch]

I'm thinking about getting one of these soon. I handled one a while back and from what I remember right it did seem smaller in all dimensions than the Colt defender I used to own. Springfield touts this gun as being built around the 9mm cartridge.

I know the grip frane is shorter from back to front. But my question about the EMP 3 inch is is the rest of the frame and slide also smaller than any other 3" 1911 chambered in 9mm? It seems from all I've read a out the Ronin EMP 3" seems that it's the smallest 1911 in 9mm,in that it's downsized in the frame and slide for an all around smaller gun? Thanks for any help on this as any info would really help me decide if I should get this gun as my next purchase thanks all.

SA's EMP's are smaller frames than standard 1911 in all dimensions; you're correct, they were designed around a smaller cartridge than the .45 Auto. I don't own a 3" EMP/Ronin, but I do have two EMP4 Champions, one in 9mm and one in .40S&W. They have the same frame dimension from the trigger back (I believe the forward portion of the frame is shorter on the 3"), and it is noticeable when held in the hand. The grip panels on the EMP4 will fit on a standard 1911, but are a lower profile (thinner) and would need shorter screw escutcheons on a standard 1911 frame in order to fit flush and tighten down, but the grip panels on a standard 1911 will fit on the EMP frame without modification.

You immediately notice the difference in the grip thickness if you hold a fullsize 1911 and then grip an EMP, it's as noticeable as the difference in a single stack vs a double stack in a full size gun. You don't readily notice the difference from just looking at them, though. The Champion, BTW, is just an earlier version than the Ronin, sizes are the same between them.

 

[someguy2800]

SA's EMP's are smaller frames than standard 1911 in all dimensions; you're correct, they were designed around a smaller cartridge than the .45 Auto. I don't own a 3" EMP/Ronin, but I do have two EMP4 Champions, one in 9mm and one in .40S&W. They have the same frame dimension from the trigger back (I believe the forward portion of the frame is shorter on the 3"), and it is noticeable when held in the hand. The grip panels on the EMP4 will fit on a standard 1911, but are a lower profile (thinner) and would need shorter screw escutcheons on a standard 1911 frame in order to fit flush and tighten down, but the grip panels on a standard 1911 will fit on the EMP frame without modification.

You immediately notice the difference in the grip thickness if you hold a fullsize 1911 and then grip an EMP, it's as noticeable as the difference in a single stack vs a double stack in a full size gun. You don't readily notice the difference from just looking at them, though. The Champion, BTW, is just an earlier version than the Ronin, sizes are the same between them.
View attachment 1132126

Can you measure one?

 

[bangswitch]

Can you measure one?

Certainly. Lots of pictures coming, but I'll say from the start the single biggest difference in size, beyond barrel and slide lengths, is the front-to-back measurement of the grip frame, and therefore the magazine well. A standard 1911 magazine will not fit in the EMP well. The EMP magazine will slide into the 1911 well, but doesn't fit in the correct sense.
First, the barrels. There are some very small differences in the diameters of the barrels along the chamber, and of course the EMP4 has an integral ramp, where the full size 1911 has the ramp in the frame. The EMP4 in these pictures is my 9mm version, the 1911 is my SA 1911A1 in .45 Auto. Top picture is the 1911, bottom is the EMP4



I measured from the breech face to the front of the forward locking lug in these two. Top is the 1911, bottom is the EMP4:



Now, the frames. The EMP4 slide fits the 1911 frame and will slide all the way back. The 1911 slide will fit on the EMP4 frame, but is stopped by the EMP4's ejector, which is thicker than the 1911's and won't fit in the slot in the slide. So, the frames are the same width and the slides are the same width. Don't give me any grief about the idiot mark on the 1911 frame, I bought the gun used and it already had it.

Height of the frame from the slide rail to the bottom of the grip is the same on both guns. Angle of the grips to the frames are identical, as you'd expect. When placed butt-to-butt, you can see the difference from front to back of the grip frames. 1911 is on the left, EMP4 on the right.


Next is looking down on the frames. EMP4 is on the left, note how the ejector extends over the mag well, where the 1911 on the right has the extractor flush with the rear of the well, and of course the 1911's well is deeper front to back.

Now, frames top-to-top, note the distance from the rear to the trigger guard is the same, and the EMP4's ejector is longer (left):

Last shot shows the guide rods and springs. The EMP4 uses a long guide rod and has no barrel bushing. There is a small hole in the guide rod, when you pull the slide back for disassembly, you put a small bent pin (a paper clip works great but a "tool" is included with the pistol) into the hole and it traps the spring compressed within the internal rod bushing, making take-down easy. The barrel on the EMP4 slides out the front, just like the 1911. When I reassembled the pistols after making the pictures, I used the slide stop from each gun on the other gun. They are identical, fit perfectly in either gun and both guns function with the other's slide stop/takedown pin.

 

[someguy2800]

Certainly. Lots of pictures coming, but I'll say from the start the single biggest difference in size, beyond barrel and slide lengths, is the front-to-back measurement of the grip frame, and therefore the magazine well. A standard 1911 magazine will not fit in the EMP well. The EMP magazine will slide into the 1911 well, but doesn't fit in the correct sense.
First, the barrels. There are some very small differences in the diameters of the barrels along the chamber, and of course the EMP4 has an integral ramp, where the full size 1911 has the ramp in the frame. The EMP4 in these pictures is my 9mm version, the 1911 is my SA 1911A1 in .45 Auto. Top picture is the 1911, bottom is the EMP4
View attachment 1132227
View attachment 1132228

I measured from the breech face to the front of the forward locking lug in these two. Top is the 1911, bottom is the EMP4:
View attachment 1132229
View attachment 1132230

Now, the frames. The EMP4 slide fits the 1911 frame and will slide all the way back. The 1911 slide will fit on the EMP4 frame, but is stopped by the EMP4's ejector, which is thicker than the 1911's and won't fit in the slot in the slide. So, the frames are the same width and the slides are the same width. Don't give me any grief about the idiot mark on the 1911 frame, I bought the gun used and it already had it.
View attachment 1132231
Height of the frame from the slide rail to the bottom of the grip is the same on both guns. Angle of the grips to the frames are identical, as you'd expect. When placed butt-to-butt, you can see the difference from front to back of the grip frames. 1911 is on the left, EMP4 on the right.
View attachment 1132233

Next is looking down on the frames. EMP4 is on the left, note how the ejector extends over the mag well, where the 1911 on the right has the extractor flush with the rear of the well, and of course the 1911's well is deeper front to back.
View attachment 1132234
Now, frames top-to-top, note the distance from the rear to the trigger guard is the same, and the EMP4's ejector is longer (left):
View attachment 1132237
Last shot shows the guide rods and springs. The EMP4 uses a long guide rod and has no barrel bushing. There is a small hole in the guide rod, when you pull the slide back for disassembly, you put a small bent pin (a paper clip works great but a "tool" is included with the pistol) into the hole and it traps the spring compressed within the internal rod bushing, making take-down easy. The barrel on the EMP4 slides out the front, just like the 1911. When I reassembled the pistols after making the pictures, I used the slide stop from each gun on the other gun. They are identical, fit perfectly in either gun and both guns function with the other's slide stop/takedown pin.
View attachment 1132238

The ramped barrel and the extended ejector are not unique to the EMP, those are pretty common changes to 9mm 1911’s to make them feed and eject reliably. The bushingless barrel setup is also used on a lot of officer length 45’s because the barrel needs to tilt at a more extreme angle. That’s what I remembered that it’s still a officer or commander size 1911 but with about an 1/8” sectioned out of the grip length and all the associated parts that intersect that.

 

[someguy2800]

There are quite a few miniaturized 1911 type pistols in 380, but the only miniaturized 9mm I know of is the Kimber micro 9 and the Star pistols, specifically the model B, BM, BKS, and BKM. These are not actually 1911’s because they are actually quite different mechanically. They have a very different trigger mechanism, updated slide stop, safety detention, external extractor, no grip safety, ect… They are definitely a derivative design of the 1911 however. It’s like 85% scale of a real 1911.

 

[bangswitch]

The ramped barrel and the extended ejector are not unique to the EMP, those are pretty common changes to 9mm 1911’s to make them feed and eject reliably. The bushingless barrel setup is also used on a lot of officer length 45’s because the barrel needs to tilt at a more extreme angle.

Yeah. I'm aware. The bushingless barrel is used in full-size 1911's also, just depends on who builds the gun and how they engineer it. My Ruger SR1911 (10mm) has a ramped barrel and is bushingless. My RIA 1911 (.38 Super) has a ramped barrel but has a barrel bushing. The ejector on the 10mm and the .38 Super are slightly different lengths from either the 9mm, .40S&W or .45; like you said, made to properly kick out whatever the gun chambers. I was a bit surprised though that the 9mm ejector was thicker than the one on the .45. The ejector on my .40 EMP4 is the same thickness as the 9mm's. Makes for a pretty robust pistol. I really love my .40 EMP4, I shoot it a lot, but hardly ever shoot the 9mm. I wouldn't even have the 9mm, but bought the pair as a package deal. I'm not much of a 9mm shooter, that one is the only 9mm I have. Even my BHP is a .40.

 

[someguy2800]

Yeah. I'm aware. The bushingless barrel is used in full-size 1911's also, just depends on who builds the gun and how they engineer it. My Ruger SR1911 (10mm) has a ramped barrel and is bushingless. My RIA 1911 (.38 Super) has a ramped barrel but has a barrel bushing. The ejector on the 10mm and the .38 Super are slightly different lengths from either the 9mm, .40S&W or .45; like you said, made to properly kick out whatever the gun chambers. I was a bit surprised though that the 9mm ejector was thicker than the one on the .45. The ejector on my .40 EMP4 is the same thickness as the 9mm's. Makes for a pretty robust pistol. I really love my .40 EMP4, I shoot it a lot, but hardly ever shoot the 9mm. I wouldn't even have the 9mm, but bought the pair as a package deal. I'm not much of a 9mm shooter, that one is the only 9mm I have. Even my BHP is a .40.

I’d really like to have an aluminum frame one in 40. I don’t think they made one through.

 

[bangswitch]

I’d really like to have an aluminum frame one in 40. I don’t think they made one through.

If you're talking about the BHP, no, they didn't. Browning-Herstal went to a cast steel frame for the .40S&W version, the forged frame being used for the 9mm was not strong enough and early models were experiencing cracked frames. The slide is also thicker on the .40 than the 9mm, by about 0.15". There are a couple of internal differences, too. The .40 is noticeably heavier than the 9mm, but still lighter than a full-size 1911.