Springfield Millspec Or Springfield GI? 1st 1911
- Thread starter Curiousity
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^^^
I was under the impression all their frames and slides were forged. According to their website, even the GI has a forged frame.
Here's a post from a 1911Forum member:
"....(straight from Deb at SA herself) they say that even their Pro is still an Imbel forging... from top to bottom ALL of SA's slides and frames are forged in Brazil.
N milspecs are also Brazil and those make up the majority of milspecs you see under the case or on the streets....the reason the NMs are a bit nicer is they are US made, where from an earlier production date - again, straight from Deb at SA.
As I've posted on numerous occasions, we both agree that Brazils forging are among the finest in the world...evident by their supply of military forgings to almost every country around the world with any type of military.
Not saying you don't know different from me, I am just saying what I've got from the horse's mouth at SA....that being Deb in the Custom Shop."
Are there some frames from SA that aren't?
I was under the impression all their frames and slides were forged. According to their website, even the GI has a forged frame.Here's a post from a 1911Forum member:
"....(straight from Deb at SA herself) they say that even their Pro is still an Imbel forging... from top to bottom ALL of SA's slides and frames are forged in Brazil.
N milspecs are also Brazil and those make up the majority of milspecs you see under the case or on the streets....the reason the NMs are a bit nicer is they are US made, where from an earlier production date - again, straight from Deb at SA.
As I've posted on numerous occasions, we both agree that Brazils forging are among the finest in the world...evident by their supply of military forgings to almost every country around the world with any type of military.
Not saying you don't know different from me, I am just saying what I've got from the horse's mouth at SA....that being Deb in the Custom Shop."
Are there some frames from SA that aren't?
Curiousity
Member
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- Apr 8, 2008
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- 148
FEG
So what do you think of the Loaded? is this the least expensive that you speak of, or do you mean the GI? would the Loaded be considered a good stainless steel model...
Thank you for your input every one...
So what do you think of the Loaded? is this the least expensive that you speak of, or do you mean the GI? would the Loaded be considered a good stainless steel model...
Thank you for your input every one...
fletcher
Member
Price goes (from least to highest): GI => Mil-Spec => Loaded
I have a loaded and it's great, definitely a good deal (especially if you can score a used one in the $500-$600 range)
I have a loaded and it's great, definitely a good deal (especially if you can score a used one in the $500-$600 range)
I just realized that self-deprecating humor doesn't really work in print. Earlier, I meant that it would have helped if I knew what I was talking about...
For some reason, I thought the G.I. Model had an investment cast frame. Inexpensive cast stainless frames are generally more problematic than the equivalent in carbon steel. For whatever reason, stainless likes to crack at all of the right angles and relief cuts.
The best values in the $700-$1,000 price range are the Springfield Loaded and Dan Wesson Pointman 7. It's really just a question of which features are more important to you. The Springfield is forged, the DW has a cast frame and forged slide. That said, I would be hard pressed to make any further modification to a DW PM-7; the pistol came the way I wanted it, straight out of the box.
My first 1911 was inherited: a WWII vintage Colt 1911A1 that has been reblued a few times. Then, I got a parkerized Springfield Mil Spec as a "beater" when I heard that the lock was coming out. I decided I wanted a stainless pistol for kicks, so I got a Colt New Series 70. Big mistake. To make a long story short, I traded it in for this Dan Wesson:
I voted "Mil Spec" in the poll. Odds are, you won't want/need to do much to it at first. If you plan on replacing virtually every part anyway, I guess the G.I. would make more sense.
bam-bam: You are correct. My attempt at being funny didn't translate too well. I was saying that if I knew what I talking about, then my stab at being helpful would have been more helpful...
For some reason, I just assumed that the G.I. model had a cast frame.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
If choosing for myself, I would want the Mil-Spec for its improved sights and lowered ejection port.
XavierBreath
Member
If you are like many 1911 shooters, you will end up owning more than one, along with extra grips and parts.
For a starter 1911, it's hard to beat the Mil-Spec, unless you are into retro stuff. If the idea of a WWII style pistol thrills you, then get the GI. It's durable,and decently accurate if you can use the sights effectively.
The big difference between the Mil-spec and the Loaded is the beavertail grip safety. The Mil-Spec won't bite, but the Loaded is still more comfortable to shoot high volumes of ammunition with. If you are a 500 round a day reloading guy, consider the Loaded. There are a lot of other differences, but when it comes to shooting the gun, that is the primary one. The dovetailed Loaded front sight makes sight swaps a snap. the ambi-safety makes shooting the pistol easier if you are a Southpaw.
The Loaded is a good pistol, no doubt, but there are other options in it's price range with similar features. If you are going to spend that amount of money, you may want to consider the other options as well. I'll list a few and why they may be options, if you don't want to consider them just skip over that part to my last paragraph.
A used Series 1 Kimber Custom (assuming you can find one for sale). This is a great gun, no FPS, and very durable. Also accurate and reliable (not that the Springers are not). Other used Kimber Series 1 pistols fall into this price strata as well. These include the Pro-Carry and occasionally others. The good thing about a used Kimber is resale value. somebody else took the new gun depreciation hit. You can sell it for as much or more than you paid for it. If the idea of that thrills you, check out Xavier's used 1911 buying guide.
A Colt NRM 1991 is another option. Colts hold resale value well too. Often they sell used five years later for more than you paid new. This is the hidden benefit of the Colt, and the hidden problem with the Springfield. The Springfields just don't fare well at the trade-in counter, especially if you modified it. Of course this is only a problem if you sell the pistol. Be aware that many 1911 shooters do end up selling and buying and trading fairly frequently.
I have found the Smith & Wesson SW1911 to be an excellent gun, despite the external extractor. These are also in the Springfield Loaded's price range. They suffer at trade-in too, but I expect that to change over time.
If you are planning to carry the 1911, a lightweight frame does make a difference. This is where a used SW1911PD or a used Kimber Pro-Carry will make a good choice.
The bottom line is the first 1911 will likely not be your last, nor your only one. By chosing Springfield, you are getting a good gun with a reputation for customer service second to none. Chose one and get into the 1911 game. As you shoot it, you will discover what your specific needs and desires are. Then trade it off, modify it, or sell it in search of your own personal perfect 1911.
For a starter 1911, it's hard to beat the Mil-Spec, unless you are into retro stuff. If the idea of a WWII style pistol thrills you, then get the GI. It's durable,and decently accurate if you can use the sights effectively.
The big difference between the Mil-spec and the Loaded is the beavertail grip safety. The Mil-Spec won't bite, but the Loaded is still more comfortable to shoot high volumes of ammunition with. If you are a 500 round a day reloading guy, consider the Loaded. There are a lot of other differences, but when it comes to shooting the gun, that is the primary one. The dovetailed Loaded front sight makes sight swaps a snap. the ambi-safety makes shooting the pistol easier if you are a Southpaw.
The Loaded is a good pistol, no doubt, but there are other options in it's price range with similar features. If you are going to spend that amount of money, you may want to consider the other options as well. I'll list a few and why they may be options, if you don't want to consider them just skip over that part to my last paragraph.
A used Series 1 Kimber Custom (assuming you can find one for sale). This is a great gun, no FPS, and very durable. Also accurate and reliable (not that the Springers are not). Other used Kimber Series 1 pistols fall into this price strata as well. These include the Pro-Carry and occasionally others. The good thing about a used Kimber is resale value. somebody else took the new gun depreciation hit. You can sell it for as much or more than you paid for it. If the idea of that thrills you, check out Xavier's used 1911 buying guide.
A Colt NRM 1991 is another option. Colts hold resale value well too. Often they sell used five years later for more than you paid new. This is the hidden benefit of the Colt, and the hidden problem with the Springfield. The Springfields just don't fare well at the trade-in counter, especially if you modified it. Of course this is only a problem if you sell the pistol. Be aware that many 1911 shooters do end up selling and buying and trading fairly frequently.
I have found the Smith & Wesson SW1911 to be an excellent gun, despite the external extractor. These are also in the Springfield Loaded's price range. They suffer at trade-in too, but I expect that to change over time.
If you are planning to carry the 1911, a lightweight frame does make a difference. This is where a used SW1911PD or a used Kimber Pro-Carry will make a good choice.
The bottom line is the first 1911 will likely not be your last, nor your only one. By chosing Springfield, you are getting a good gun with a reputation for customer service second to none. Chose one and get into the 1911 game. As you shoot it, you will discover what your specific needs and desires are. Then trade it off, modify it, or sell it in search of your own personal perfect 1911.
Rather than just parrot Xavier, I will add another log to the fire...
A lot of 1911 shooters buy/sell/trade pistols and parts like you and I change our socks. There are some hidden gems out there. A friend of mine lucked into a modified Auto-Ordnance 1911A1 that is a real dream. To my shame, we all suck up to my friend who owns it, because he is impulsive and might sell it for what it is "worth" on paper, rather than the real world.
I forgot to mention the S&W models. If I was getting into the game today for a GP type of 1911, I would take a look at them also.
A lot of 1911 shooters buy/sell/trade pistols and parts like you and I change our socks. There are some hidden gems out there. A friend of mine lucked into a modified Auto-Ordnance 1911A1 that is a real dream. To my shame, we all suck up to my friend who owns it, because he is impulsive and might sell it for what it is "worth" on paper, rather than the real world.
I forgot to mention the S&W models. If I was getting into the game today for a GP type of 1911, I would take a look at them also.
DarkSoldier
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2008
- Messages
- 145
I've been carrying a Springer TRP (Tactical Response Pistol) for seven years now and I've burned up a lot of hardball and hollowpoints in that amount of time. The TRP falls somewhere between the Loaded models and the Professional Model (formerly the FBI model) in features and price. Check out the factory web site for details. I bet my life on the gun every day and carry a Springer .45 Micro compact as a back up. One thing I do with any 1911 is to replace the magazines that come with the gun with Wilson Combat mags.
Buy as much gun as you can, but if money is an issue (and for me it usually is...) my thought would be that having a Mil Spec or a Loaded Model with good Wilson mags and enough cash left over for practice ammo beats the heck out of having a TRP and no cash left over for ammo, decent leather and mags.
Respectfully,
DarkSoldier
Buy as much gun as you can, but if money is an issue (and for me it usually is...) my thought would be that having a Mil Spec or a Loaded Model with good Wilson mags and enough cash left over for practice ammo beats the heck out of having a TRP and no cash left over for ammo, decent leather and mags.
Respectfully,
DarkSoldier
TimboKhan
Member
This is a pretty simple question to answer for me:
Want a historically accurate gun? Go for the GI.
Want a gun with notably superior sights, but less of the "GI" experience? Go with the Mil-Spec.
There isn't anything wrong with either gun, and even the sights aren't a big issue if your looking for a shooting experience accurate to what a GI actually had, which is a perfectly valid thing to want. I happen to dislike the GI sights enough that the Mil-Spec would be my choice everytime, but that isn't meant to disparage the GI. Thats just to say that I think, for me, the Mil-spec would be the better choice of the two.
Want a historically accurate gun? Go for the GI.
Want a gun with notably superior sights, but less of the "GI" experience? Go with the Mil-Spec.
There isn't anything wrong with either gun, and even the sights aren't a big issue if your looking for a shooting experience accurate to what a GI actually had, which is a perfectly valid thing to want. I happen to dislike the GI sights enough that the Mil-Spec would be my choice everytime, but that isn't meant to disparage the GI. Thats just to say that I think, for me, the Mil-spec would be the better choice of the two.
Tom Fury
Member
Go for loaded
The difference between "necessary" and "unnecessary" extra features is hard to define and usually better determined from experience ("if I had it to do over, I wouldn't do THAT again...") after the fact.
The perspective that helps you assess this is:
What does the production ("factory custom" or "loaded") gun with features (maybe a couple "unnecessary" ones) cost versus taking a stock gun to a Smith and having him do only the "necessary" ones; usually you'll come out ahead or verrrry close, plus avoid shipping, waiting, etc. Especially if you have little experience with getting what you want out of a Smith, which is a whole 'nother story and the reason there is a market for "factory custom" guns. I have had several custom guns done from SA Mil Specs and have been very happy with them. Be advised that when you go for the beavertail, SA frame grip tangs are cut on a different radiue than Colt, which means to use most aftermarket BT grip safetys a smith has to weld up the frame and recut; I'd rather not, if nothing else cos' it usually involves refinishing, Smith & Alexander make a BT specifically to address this, but I prefer the shape of ED Brown.
This specific operation by itself is enough to make me go loaded, and the cost of this specific operation (about the difference between the two) in itself is enough to make me go loaded; plus the sights. I could give a rip about frontcocking serrations and holsters; I don't like them aesthetically, but pleease; the holster is gonna take some wear; buy another; buy two now while they're still cheap.
Having it in stainless is also enough to make me pay extra.
Simple (drop in) solution to hammer bite; Chip McCormick Commander hammer and Commander pigtail style beavertail.
Cheers, TF
The difference between "necessary" and "unnecessary" extra features is hard to define and usually better determined from experience ("if I had it to do over, I wouldn't do THAT again...") after the fact.
The perspective that helps you assess this is:
What does the production ("factory custom" or "loaded") gun with features (maybe a couple "unnecessary" ones) cost versus taking a stock gun to a Smith and having him do only the "necessary" ones; usually you'll come out ahead or verrrry close, plus avoid shipping, waiting, etc. Especially if you have little experience with getting what you want out of a Smith, which is a whole 'nother story and the reason there is a market for "factory custom" guns. I have had several custom guns done from SA Mil Specs and have been very happy with them. Be advised that when you go for the beavertail, SA frame grip tangs are cut on a different radiue than Colt, which means to use most aftermarket BT grip safetys a smith has to weld up the frame and recut; I'd rather not, if nothing else cos' it usually involves refinishing, Smith & Alexander make a BT specifically to address this, but I prefer the shape of ED Brown.
This specific operation by itself is enough to make me go loaded, and the cost of this specific operation (about the difference between the two) in itself is enough to make me go loaded; plus the sights. I could give a rip about frontcocking serrations and holsters; I don't like them aesthetically, but pleease; the holster is gonna take some wear; buy another; buy two now while they're still cheap.
Having it in stainless is also enough to make me pay extra.
Simple (drop in) solution to hammer bite; Chip McCormick Commander hammer and Commander pigtail style beavertail.
Cheers, TF
Last edited:
Tom Fury
Member
Ditto Xavier on 1991A1
cheers, tf
cheers, tf
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