Springfield XDm and California

Status
Not open for further replies.

davidjblythe

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
126
What specifically makes the new Springfield XDm illegal in California? If it cannot be sold in CA can it be purchased in another state and then brought legally to California? I'm aware of the ten round magazine limitation, but are there other laws barring ownership in CA?
 
The "Roster" lists the following Springfield Armory "XD" pistols as approved for retail sale in California. I am unsure what an "XDm" is or if it corresponds to an item listed below; if it doesn't it is not Rostered and not available for general dealer sale in CA.

Apologies for the poor formatting (date is expiration date of Roster status):

XD-9 (9704) / Polymer/Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 8/26/09
XD9101 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 10/21/09
XD9102 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/20/09
XD9103 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 SIG 12/20/09
XD9104 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/21/10
XD9109 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/21/10
XD9113 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 SIG 3/26/10
XD9121 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" 9mm 1/23/10
XD9122 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/23/10
XD9131 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 1/23/10
XD9132 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 11/28/09
XD9161 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 11/20/09
XD9162 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/20/09
XD9201 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/26/10
XD9202 / Composite, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/10
XD9221 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08 9mm 1/23/10
XD9222 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/23/10
XD9231 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/10
XD9232 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 3/26/10
XD9261 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/10
XD9262 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/26/10
XD9301 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 1/17/10
XD9302 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/17/10
XD9311 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/26/10
XD9312 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/27/10
XD9401 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 3/10/10
XD9402 Tactical / Polymer/Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 9/6/09
XD9404 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 6/23/09
XD9405 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 12/3/09
XD9411 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 3/26/10
XD9412 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 3/26/10
XD9501 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 12/3/09
XD9502 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/3/09
XD9504 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4.05" .45 3/23/10
XD9505 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 5.01" .45 3/23/10
XD9524 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 4' .45 GAP 9/26/09
XD9525 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 GAP 9/26/09
XD9611 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/17/10
XD9612 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 1/23/10
XD9614 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/10
XD9621 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/17/10
XD9622 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 1/23/10
XD9624 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/26/10
XD9645 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/17/10
XD9646 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 11/28/09
XD9647 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 1/23/10
XD9648 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/10
XD9701 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 5/9/09
XD9702 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .40 S&W 9/6/09
XD9781 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 3/17/10
XD9782 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4" .40 S&W 3/17/10
XD9801 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 3/19/10
XD9802 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 10/25/09
XD9810 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 7/29/09
XD9811 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 4/7/09
XD9812 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/10/10
XD9821 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" 9mm 3/23/10
XD9822 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" .40 S&W 2/18/10
XD9831 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 3/26/10
XD9832 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/26/10
XD9842 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/26/10



The following concepts apply to non-Rostered handguns in CA (and which are not exempt dimensionally-compliant single-action revolvers or single-shot pistols):

  • the non-Rostered handgun itself is legal to actually possess
    (providing it had a proper import path into CA);
  • non-Rostered status means you can't, say, buy one on GunBroker
    in Iowa and have it shipped to your CA FFL and transferred to you
    (unless you are an LEO). This is regardless of whether it doesn't have
    hicap magazines.
  • this means a CA FFL can't have one in inventory for regular sale (he
    could sell to LEO, though) even if it just has 10rd magazines;
  • you CAN receive one via inheritance, bequests, "operation of Law",
    etc. - as Rostering status does not apply in these cases.
  • you can receive one via "lineal intrafamily transfer" (grandparent,
    parent, child, grandchild are only authorized family members). If the
    supplying party is outside CA, the transfer must run thru a CA FFL to
    keep the *Feds/ATF* happy, but CA doesn't care about Rostering
    status here. (Many CA FFLs do not realize this.)
  • If someone possesses a non-Rostered handgun in CA, he can
    sell it to a Californian thru "private party transfer".


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
M refers to the Match barrel and grips included with this gun, which is made in Croatia. My roomate has one, awesome handgun.
-FL

Edit: It says not legal for sale in California for the Hi-cap mag, I believe the pistol is legal.
-FL
 
What specifically makes the new Springfield XDm illegal in California? If it cannot be sold in CA can it be purchased in another state and then brought legally to California? I'm aware of the ten round magazine limitation, but are there other laws barring ownership in CA?
Well it appears the XDm does not have a magazine disconnect.

To many people such a feature is a liability. It means you have more moving parts that intentionaly cause the firearm not to fire if they are not aligned properly. Parts to wear down which are unnecessary but the firearm depends on to allow firing. Even a faulty magazine or poorly seated magazine could cause some mag disconnects to think a magazine is not in the firearm, preventing them from firing.
Additionaly even if they work flawlessly as intended all the time, many people would rather thier firearm still be capable of firing when they remove a magazine or are in the middle of a reload. nto seat or falls out? You are defenseless.
Your firearm while in the holster has the magazine release lightly pressed. It causes the magazine to be less seated or even disconnect, you are totaly disarmed and you do not even know it.
Mag release gets bumped or pressed while unholstering and in the struggle of your life with a bad guy rolling around as he tries to harm you? You are totaly defenseless because it is working as designed.
Bad guy trying to get ahold of your firearm and bumps the mag release? You are totaly disarmed.

Imagine yourself in the firefight of your life, not sure how many rounds you just fired and want to be topped off with the threat still around the corner. Drop a magazine to throw another you have in and just then the goblin steps around the corner. You are totaly defenseless even with one in the pipe.


So bottom line is a magazine release is not for everyone, even considered a liability by some, much like the S&W trigger locks that can lock the action unexpectedly on occasion if they get loose.
Yet CA law requires the magazine disconnect.
CA also requires a 10 round or less magazine and the XDm uses standard capacity magazines

Even in spite of all that, it would appear the XDm went too far to appease just such people with "safety" features.
Check out this picture shamelessly copied from the first website that popped up with the image to show you:
features_11a.jpg


That is the loaded chamber indicator stuck up. A tab sticking straight out at almost a right angle. A hard metal tab on a surface that is otherwise smooth.
The type of thing that will destroy a holster, get caught on things, and otherwise remind you of the unnecessary "safety" feature.
So they really hurt a good design already with a stupid LCI to appease those places requiring such a feature.
Yet on top of all that it appears the LCI is also not good enough for CA. You see CA has a very strict definition in statute on what a LCI must do and say. This definition was "updated" to be more restrictive.

This does not make the gun "illegal" in CA. It means FFLs cannot sell them in the state. Since all transfers from out of state go through an FFL it means they cannot be shipped from out of state to be sold to someone in CA.
They can however be brought into CA legaly by someone moving in from another state.
There is other legal tricks as well, but bottom line is the gun is unlikely to be rostered as a CA approved "safe gun".
You may wonder how some similar guns even by the same manufacturer got onto the roster in light of these requirements.
Until a couple years ago a magazine disconnect requirement or the updated definition of a LCI did not exist.
Most of the firearms on the CA roster would not actualy pass the requirements to be added to the roster today. However if the manufacturer continues to pay the yearly extortion fee CA will not drop them from the list. They cannot however add new firearms unless they have the requirements of the legislation in place.
 
Last edited:
The LCI is just a small bump on the top. In the dark it is a nice little feature instead of doing a press check. I have three different XD's and I carry at least one daily, and the LCI and done nothing to any of the holsters over the last couple of years. As far as CA goes, I am not even going to touch that...
 
Last edited:
the standard xd does NOT have a mag disconnect in it and is still legal for sale in california
 
the standard xd does NOT have a mag disconnect in it and is still legal for sale in california

Zoogster is 100% correct on why the XD is approved and XDm is not.

As mentioned the XD was on the approved list before mag disconnects were a required safety item, therefore grandfathered.

The complete list of things required can be found here:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12125.php

Here is the mag disconnect section. Note that it grandfathers handguns already approved and notice the effective date.

(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center-fire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it does not have both a chamber load indicator and if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.


And of course next year there won't be ANY handguns added to the list because this one kicks in:

7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired,

CA DOJ has the option of extending that date, be interesting to see if they do.
 
Last edited:
What specifically makes the new Springfield XDm illegal in California?

in california the question is not "what makes the xdm illegal for a ffl to sell to the average person?"

in california the question is "what makes it legal?"
 
M actually stands for "More" not "Match"

And to Gugnir, who said the XDM is sold in CA...its not. It is NOT on the CA DOJ approved roster of handguns. Also as far as I know XD still has not come out with a 10 round magazine for it.

To the OP, the only way to legally obtain an XDM in CA is to:
A) Be a LEO and then you are legally allowed to buy non roster firearms from an FFL
B) Have an immediate family member (must be Father, Mother, Daughter, Son, Grandfather, or Grandmother) purchase one out of state and then give it to you as a gift. It still has to go through a CA FFL as an "intra-family transaction"
C) Purchase the gun legally in another state and then move to CA

I obtained one through option B
 
bonmid003,

Have you found either a legal 10 round magazine or a way to convert the 16, permanently to 10? I have my XDM via the intra-family as well & didn't need a FFL, I simply filled out the paperwork & sent it in. Disassembled the magazines before bringing them across state lines.
 
No Springfield doesn't make a 10 rd magazine yet. Remember it is not against CA law to possess high cap magazines, only to buy, sell, or import them.
 
Quser.619 said:
bonmid003,

Have you found either a legal 10 round magazine or a way to convert the 16, permanently to 10? I have my XDM via the intra-family as well & didn't need a FFL, I simply filled out the paperwork & sent it in. Disassembled the magazines before bringing them across state lines.

Intra-familial transfer across state lines still needs to be transfered through a CA FFL dealer.

Sending in an Operation of Law or Intra-familial Handgun Transaction Report, just satifies the CA DOJ BOF (they do not care about Federal laws). But, you still broke Federal law by not transfering it through a CA FFL dealer. So, the BATFE can still arrest you for comitting a Federal felony.

There is no Federal intra-familial gift exemption.
 
Wow! That is so wrong.

Just ask any cop. You get caught with hi-caps and your going to jail.

No, it is not against the law to simply have a "high capacity "magazine in California. It very much depends on how and when you obtained it.

Asking cops for legal advice is usually a bad idea as well.

In depth discussion over at Calguns on this. The short version:

Prohibited actions:
manufacture or cause to be manufactured
import into the state
keep for sale
offer or expose for sale
give
lend


Note that it is not prohibited to
own a large-capacity magazine
possess a large-capacity magazine
use a large-capacity magazine, in whatever gun*
repair a legally possessed large-capacity magazine
(and, necessarily, to acquire the parts to make the repair --
remember it only makes sense to buy parts kits for existing
legally-possessed large-capacity magazines)

"High Cap" mags are grandfathered

If you did not possess a large-capacity magazine in California before January 1, 2000, you may not have it now

If the gun (and its matching magazines) did not exist before January 1, 2000, you shouldn't have large-capacity magazines for it now

Link to the entire long thread, with references to all of the California laws:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709
 
Darthbauer how about you do some research before you shoot your mouth off

www.calguns.net and use the search function

Quiet I also got the impression he did the transfer in the state in which his family resides
 
"High Cap" mags are grandfathered

For that one owner. Which differs from the old federal and some other states in that the "grandfathered" magazine is only grandfathered for the person who owned it prior to 2000.
It can never be sold or transferred to anyone, or even left to thier children. The same goes for those registered "assault weapons" that could be registered for a brief window after the law was enacted.

They must go out of state, to an FFL for sale to LEO, or they become illegal when the person dies and will be seized by the state. Have your grandfather/father die, and he left what he had to you? You just committed the felony of having an unregistered assault weapon if you don't find his gun stash and turn in his "assault weapons" which nobody in the state can legally possess ever again.

Such firearms and magazines are legally permanently attached to a single person in California.




The primary reason the high capacity magazine issue has not been seen as such a big deal by some gun owners, is it is nearly impossible to enforce.
Magazines previously owned can be repaired indefinitely, even if that means 100% of the magazine components gradually were replaced.
That means if a LEO finds a magazine that is a 2009 model magazine (that goes to a firearm model that existed before 2000), that does not even mean it violates the law. As someone who owned that type of magazine in 2000 could have replaced every portion of an existing magazine with brand new parts.

Thier is no registry of high capacity magazines. So who owned what in 2000 is not known. Who owned what firearms, especially handguns automatically registered in the state at that point is known.
So people may own magazines for firearms they did not own yet, but that may sound strange to many prospective jurors.

Additionally the age requirements for firearm purchase create a cutoff of who can break the law without it logically being deduced. That means anyone who was not 18 by January 2000 logically would not have had magazines for firearms they could not own. It is perfectly legal for children to have those magazines though, so it is technically possible.
People 18 by that date would be at least 27 today. So anyone under 27 should logically have no high capacity magazines because they were not old enough to legally own a firearm in the state of California before then.
Unless they received a handgun from a parent or grandparent they also would not have legally possessed any before being 21. Which means in most cases those currently under 30 should not legally have a high capacity magazine for a handgun.

Also anyone who never traveled or lived in California before 2000 could not have legally met the requirements to have any grandfathered magazines under state law.



As time goes on, and the 2000 date gets further away, you can expect more restrictive enforcement of the high capacity magazine issue as it becomes clearer and clearer that younger people are in illegal violation of the law through possession.
 
Why to U.S. citizens choose to remain a resident of California, then complain about it?:confused:
 
As time goes on, and the 2000 date gets further away, you can expect more restrictive enforcement of the high capacity magazine issue as it becomes clearer and clearer that younger people are in illegal violation of the law through possession.

Actually there is a bill in California now to require those already grandfathered to be registered at a cost of $20 per magazine to fund the registration program.

Like KenW says, not sure why anyone would stay.

California SB776.

This bill would, commencing January 1, 2011, and subject to
exceptions, require registration of large-capacity magazines with the
Department of Justice. The bill would require registration of
large-capacity magazines no later than January 1, 2011, for magazines
that are already possessed, as specified, and would provide that
large-capacity magazines acquired after January 1, 2011, be
registered within 30 days of taking possession. The bill would
establish exceptions to these provisions.

The bill would authorize
the Department of Justice to charge a fee, not to exceed $20,
for registration of large-capacity magazines, and would authorize
increases in that fee, as specified. The bill would exempt local
and state entities from that registration fee.
 
I just had a revelation. People stay in Ca. just as people continue to vote for Ted Kennedy, Diane Fienstein, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, and the like.

Back to the topic; If I carry my XD45 with the 13 rd mag into CA under LEOSA, I'd be violating, right?
 
The only reason I'd go to CA as a private citizen would be if I scored some good NASCAR tickets. And then I'd just take a 1911 to stay out of trouble. I think at least one of mine would be CA legal.
 
Back to the topic; If I carry my XD45 with the 13 rd mag into CA under LEOSA, I'd be violating, right?

CA treats LEO as above most serfs in many firearm issues, so it becomes complicated:


It appears it may be a violation of the law.
Purchase and possession of those already in the state is simple for LEO under the law (but CA department policies usually require a special process of permission), like any other magazine.
Import under the law does appear to exempt peace officers as well if they are current peace officers:

In the statute there is this worded exemption:
"who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties."

So are you currently active LEO?
That could make a difference as a retired LEO under the LEOSA may still not meet the California definition of still being "authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of thier duties". As a retired officer is no longer "in the course and scope of thier duties" at any time.
They don't have any "duties" not being employed as a peace officer anymore.
Under LEOSA they could still be protected for the firearm, but not the large capacity magazine no longer meeting the CA definition of an exempted person as just a retired LEO.


LEO are also subject to the extensive "assault weapon" legislation. Possession by a police officer of such a weapon is still a felony unless it is in the scope of thier duties. Which it would certainly not be for someone from out of state.
 
Last edited:
So are you currently active LEO?
That could make a difference as a retired LEO under the LEOSA may still not meet the California definition of still being "authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of thier duties". As a retired officer is no longer "in the course and scope of thier duties" at any time.
They don't have any "duties" not being employed as a peace officer anymore.
Under LEOSA they could still be protected for the firearm, but not the large capacity magazine no longer meeting the CA definition of an exempted person as just a retired LEO.

I am an honorably retired veteran and current deputy sheriff. I've carried concealed in CA while on extraditions, but have never been there for pleasure.
California definitions should not make a difference in this. LEOSA is federal. I was curious what kind of reactions I may find.
On duty, off-duty; how does that affect my character? :banghead:

Oh, and those that think I'm above you; at least you can carry whatever gun you want. I must have mine examined and qualify with it. A change in the armorer's weapon committee or a new Sheriff could really screw me up. For example; a new sheriff may be elected who is opposed to single actions, and I could be forced into a pitcher of Glock cool-aid.
 
You're protected when you're concealed carrying but I've heard of out of state LEO getting harrassed for hollow points in NJ, so there could be a potential of getting harassed for high cap mags in CA as an out of state LEO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top