Square deal B - Feedback?
- Thread starter Noxx
- Start date
- Status
cdrt
Member
Had one, sold it. Too many problems with the priming stage. Other guys love them, as you'll soon see on your post.
If I bought another Dillion, it would be the 650. Spend the money now and get the better product.
If I bought another Dillion, it would be the 650. Spend the money now and get the better product.
wcwhitey
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 2,814
I have had mine for quite a few years, has been reliable and a good loader. I bought it second hand with five caliber conversions, spare parts kit and all the bells and whistles. No regrets. I use my RC for rifle and R&D. Once I settle on a load which requires volume I go to the SDB. You won't be sorry with your purchase, the only think negative I can say is that I wish it at least did .223 rifle. Bill
P.S. Dillon has a very good customer service reputation for a reason, they are great.
P.S. Dillon has a very good customer service reputation for a reason, they are great.
SDB
I have two of them. The first one I got in 1984 not too long after they first became available. Loaded tens of thousands of quality pistol rounds on both machines. Sure, they have not been 100% trouble free, but for the rare occasion a part breaks or an adjustment needs to be made, I stand behind the Square deal for great handgun ammunition. Curiously I have had reletivley few problems with the priming system. I am now loading for 6 pistol calibers, Best reloading investment I ever made.
I have two of them. The first one I got in 1984 not too long after they first became available. Loaded tens of thousands of quality pistol rounds on both machines. Sure, they have not been 100% trouble free, but for the rare occasion a part breaks or an adjustment needs to be made, I stand behind the Square deal for great handgun ammunition. Curiously I have had reletivley few problems with the priming system. I am now loading for 6 pistol calibers, Best reloading investment I ever made.
SDB forever...!
I bought mine used and never looked back. (I load primarily .45ACP). Many people start with SDBs and then add another one set up for a different caliber or add a 650 but KEEP the SDB because they liked it. Mine's great and has been reliable with only minor (but simple) routine repairs.
I bought mine used and never looked back. (I load primarily .45ACP). Many people start with SDBs and then add another one set up for a different caliber or add a 650 but KEEP the SDB because they liked it. Mine's great and has been reliable with only minor (but simple) routine repairs.
Hawk
Member
SDB: Rock solid. Wound up getting an XL-650 but not because of any issues with the SDB.
CommanderPoopyduX
Member
So Noxx, does that mean you will be selling your Rockchucker?
Rivet8
Member
I had a Square Deal B back in the late 1980s. I loaded quit a bit of ammo
with it, and the machine worked as designed, but I would not buy another one.
I hope this is not taken as Dillon-bashing, because I like the company.
My first criticism is aimed more at the progressive press than it is at the
SDB. Obviously, you step up significantly in terms of complexity when using
a progressive vs a single stage. Even though I bought four caliber conversions
for it, none (beyond the first) ever got installed because I was too intimidated to go through the setup and adjustment again. I realize that says as much about me as the press, but nonetheless, it is what occurred, and that was a non-trivial amount of money to be wasted.
The second aspect is value. The Square Deal seemed a lot more square of a
deal when it was $200 and change, instead of $300+. Now it is knocking on
the price threshhold of much more capable machines like the XL650.
Which brings me to my final issues, the real dealbreakers. They are Dillon's
proprietary dies unique to the SDB, and the inability to handle rifle calibers.
At $75 per caliber, you can spend a lot of money for dies that you might
already own in standard format. As for the rifle cartridges, that was one
issue I easily rationalized away (I had access to a single stage), but
regretted many times.
If I were looking at Dillon today, I'd spring for the XL650. However, I
find my needs met by a Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret. While it doesn't generate
the production rates of a true progressive, it's fast enough for me, it
handles standard dies and rifle calibers, and it was $83.99 at Midway.
with it, and the machine worked as designed, but I would not buy another one.
I hope this is not taken as Dillon-bashing, because I like the company.
My first criticism is aimed more at the progressive press than it is at the
SDB. Obviously, you step up significantly in terms of complexity when using
a progressive vs a single stage. Even though I bought four caliber conversions
for it, none (beyond the first) ever got installed because I was too intimidated to go through the setup and adjustment again. I realize that says as much about me as the press, but nonetheless, it is what occurred, and that was a non-trivial amount of money to be wasted.
The second aspect is value. The Square Deal seemed a lot more square of a
deal when it was $200 and change, instead of $300+. Now it is knocking on
the price threshhold of much more capable machines like the XL650.
Which brings me to my final issues, the real dealbreakers. They are Dillon's
proprietary dies unique to the SDB, and the inability to handle rifle calibers.
At $75 per caliber, you can spend a lot of money for dies that you might
already own in standard format. As for the rifle cartridges, that was one
issue I easily rationalized away (I had access to a single stage), but
regretted many times.
If I were looking at Dillon today, I'd spring for the XL650. However, I
find my needs met by a Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret. While it doesn't generate
the production rates of a true progressive, it's fast enough for me, it
handles standard dies and rifle calibers, and it was $83.99 at Midway.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
For not much more than the price of an SBD, you can get a Hornady LnL and it's a heckuva lot more machine than an SBD. The SBD's aren't bad machines, they just aren't worth the current price. Especially when you can get other machines that are faster for the same money or get machines for less money that are nearly as fast.
Those proprietary dies are especially a deal breaker.
Just my .02,
Dave
Those proprietary dies are especially a deal breaker.
Just my .02,
Dave
Rivet8
Member
In the interest of fairness, I should point out that to make an apples-to-apples price comparison between the SDB and the Lee Classic Turret, you would have to add the price of the automatic powder measure and auto primer feed to the Lee, about $60.
HankB
Member
I've been using an SDB for probably around 20 years now. I had a little problem with the priming system a couple of years ago, but a call to Dillon and they sent me some parts.
Parts didn't fit - another call, and after describing my problem, they said "Ohhh, that's and OLD one . . . we'll have to send you an entire new priming assembly." And they did - no charge.
So for loading straight-wall pistol cases, I like it more than the 550, since the SDB has auto indexing and the 550 doesn't.
But as someone already wrote, when I got mine it was under $200. I plan to keep using it because it's paid for and it works well, but if I were buying a progressive today, I'd go for the 650.
Parts didn't fit - another call, and after describing my problem, they said "Ohhh, that's and OLD one . . . we'll have to send you an entire new priming assembly." And they did - no charge.
So for loading straight-wall pistol cases, I like it more than the 550, since the SDB has auto indexing and the 550 doesn't.
But as someone already wrote, when I got mine it was under $200. I plan to keep using it because it's paid for and it works well, but if I were buying a progressive today, I'd go for the 650.
cherryriver
Member
My SDB has done around fifteen thousand .45s so far. I keep the parts overhaul kit nearby. It seems as though the wear-parts changeout needs to be done every ten thou or so if you want it stay perfect. It's no big deal, and cheap.
I've never considered changing calibers on it. It's not intended for that. You can, but it's not the idea. It's a one-straightwall-pistol caliber setup.
I do everything else pistol on an ancient 550, for which Dillon has sent a good number of replacement parts for the price of a phone call.
Their phone support defies description. I wish I could be that good at it.
I'd say the SDB price is fair enough, given what's included, namely the dies and good powder measure.
I hope to get my hands on another for .38 Special, my other heavy-use caliber. I think I'm faster with it, and I know it's less effort for me.
Bill
I've never considered changing calibers on it. It's not intended for that. You can, but it's not the idea. It's a one-straightwall-pistol caliber setup.
I do everything else pistol on an ancient 550, for which Dillon has sent a good number of replacement parts for the price of a phone call.
Their phone support defies description. I wish I could be that good at it.
I'd say the SDB price is fair enough, given what's included, namely the dies and good powder measure.
I hope to get my hands on another for .38 Special, my other heavy-use caliber. I think I'm faster with it, and I know it's less effort for me.
Bill
SASS#23149
Member
I started on,and still have, a 550b.
recently a friend loaned me his sdb for the next year,so I mounted it at the other end of my bench.
I MUCH prefer the 550b,especially the maneuvering room of the larger press area.
when my friend takes his back I won't be buying one,I'll make do with just the 550.It serves me well,and I have all the room my hands need too.
recently a friend loaned me his sdb for the next year,so I mounted it at the other end of my bench.
I MUCH prefer the 550b,especially the maneuvering room of the larger press area.
when my friend takes his back I won't be buying one,I'll make do with just the 550.It serves me well,and I have all the room my hands need too.
Last edited:
i agrre with buying a 650
I currently have a Lee pro 1000. Unfortunatley it requires too much tinkering
to keep it running. The tinkering is mainly due to powder spillage and flipped,
turned or missing primers. The other big disadvantage is its size. It is a small
press. Some of the advantages of it are: The shellcase feeder, although somewhat primitive, you can run out if you don;t rotate the tubes, and
it auto indexes. I had not reloaded previous to this press. But i like those
features. I would rather shoot than reload.
A friend has a 550B, one huge difference is the size and room you have.
unfortunatley it does not index and does not have a case feeder.
I have read a lot of comments, and watched both videos 550 and 650.
I've decided to order a 650, with a powder check.
My friend spends a lot of time checking for "no powder or double charging"
i think the powder check would eliminate this, "it does not check for
accuracy" but at least you know you have a problem and you can remove the
shell.
My 2 cents.
Wood
I currently have a Lee pro 1000. Unfortunatley it requires too much tinkering
to keep it running. The tinkering is mainly due to powder spillage and flipped,
turned or missing primers. The other big disadvantage is its size. It is a small
press. Some of the advantages of it are: The shellcase feeder, although somewhat primitive, you can run out if you don;t rotate the tubes, and
it auto indexes. I had not reloaded previous to this press. But i like those
features. I would rather shoot than reload.
A friend has a 550B, one huge difference is the size and room you have.
unfortunatley it does not index and does not have a case feeder.
I have read a lot of comments, and watched both videos 550 and 650.
I've decided to order a 650, with a powder check.
My friend spends a lot of time checking for "no powder or double charging"
i think the powder check would eliminate this, "it does not check for
accuracy" but at least you know you have a problem and you can remove the
shell.
My 2 cents.
Wood
RobZ71LM7
Member
It's a fine machine-almost bought one at one point. But do you do any rifle reloading? If so I'd strongly consider a 550 or 650. You can load rifle and use standard dies. I got my progressive mainly to load .45ACP, but soon started loading .223 on it which I normally reserved for the single stage.
ATM I don't do any rifle reloading. I just picked up an SKS at auction, so I imagine I'll be doing some reloading in 7.62x39, but only on a scale that the Rockchucker will be fine for.
Where I'm really hurting is burning through 200-300 rounds weekly of 9mm and 45
HankB
Member
One more thing about my SDB . . . working at what I feel is a comfortable pace, where I can keep an eye on what I'm doing, loading a 50-round box of .45 ACP takes just under 6 minutes, for a rate of 500+ per hour. However, factor in refilling the primer feed, periodically checking the weight of powder dropped, emptying the loaded rounds hopper, etc., and I'd guess the one-man sustained rate is no more than half that.
Someone in a hurry (shouldn't be loading!) could probably crank out rounds at 750 or 800 per hour for a short time, maybe more, but IMHO they'd be working too fast, and that would increase the chances that something would go wrong.
Someone in a hurry (shouldn't be loading!) could probably crank out rounds at 750 or 800 per hour for a short time, maybe more, but IMHO they'd be working too fast, and that would increase the chances that something would go wrong.
cherryriver
Member
I think of my SDB as being capable of 350, maybe 400 per hour. The lower figure is about right, though, if you count everything like cleaning.
I would not suggest that the SDB is a good primary machine. For a guy who can only have one machine, then the 550 is a better choice.
What the SDB is, is a niche machine- a fast, but inexpensive, single-caliber machine you don't change around much.
I hope I never have to go back to using only one again (I have three different setups right now), and so, from that perspective, the SDB has a valuable place.
Bill
I would not suggest that the SDB is a good primary machine. For a guy who can only have one machine, then the 550 is a better choice.
What the SDB is, is a niche machine- a fast, but inexpensive, single-caliber machine you don't change around much.
I hope I never have to go back to using only one again (I have three different setups right now), and so, from that perspective, the SDB has a valuable place.
Bill
James Thomson
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
- Messages
- 39
I bought a 550 and a year later bought a 650. I didn't even consider the SDB because for just a little more, you can have the 550, a much more versitile press that can load any kind of round. I use my 650 for 9MM and the 550 for all the rest I use less consistently. It works great for me.
redneck2
Member
FWIW...I load a mix of high volume rifle, develop rifle loads, and pistol. I like the fact that the 550 doesn't index. I can set bullet depth, measure & adjust, and not have to mess with the shell plate.
Moving the shell plate means flipping your thumb about an inch every round. No big deal to me. If you strictly do pistol or rifle with very easy flowing powders and load large volumes, the 650 would probably be great.
If you do get a Dillon, get extra tool heads or preferably the entire quick change assembly. I have 5 of them and it takes a minute or two to completely swap calibers.
Moving the shell plate means flipping your thumb about an inch every round. No big deal to me. If you strictly do pistol or rifle with very easy flowing powders and load large volumes, the 650 would probably be great.
If you do get a Dillon, get extra tool heads or preferably the entire quick change assembly. I have 5 of them and it takes a minute or two to completely swap calibers.
Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
Still another viewpoint
I loaded for many years on a single stage RCBS press and waited FAR too long to go progressive. I finally bought a Dillon 550 in, I think, 1989. I have several comlete toolheads, powder measure and all, for it, plus a few spare toolheads for my lesser-loaded calibers. I still single-stage almost all my rifle cartridges.
I picked up a used Square Deal B set up for .38 Special two or three years ago. After I looked it over, I decided I'd never swap calbers on it - - Just too much trouble, and I already had conventional dies for almost every cartridge I'd want to load. I got a very good price on this used machine. I agree with James Thomson about the price difference, 550 vs. SDB. At today's prices, I'd not buy a new SDB.
I sent the SDB to Dillon for a complete refurbishing, and it works flawlessly, within design limitations. I'd prefer it to be set up for .45 ACP, as this is by far what I shoot the most. I don't load ANY heavy charges on the SDB, but this is fine, due to my likng for alloy framed revolvers.
It would be ideal for me to have two 550 presses, leaving one set up for each primer size, with the single stage for rifle stuff. I guess, with the rising ammo prices, I'll probably begin loading .223 progressively.
Pending aquisition of another 550, I'll keep the SDB. Like redneck2, I'm not overly fond of the auto indexing feature. I really LIKE the manual advance of the 550, so I can do a bit more quality control as I go. With the SDB, once you start the handle cycle, you are committed, and it is a (minor) hassle to pull a case out of the rotation. Personal preference. I've always preferred slow-and-steady production to blazing speed. (That is, until I'm short on .45 ammo, with a submachine match the next morning.)
I started out with a Dillon progressive and I'm another BIG fan of their customer service, seldom as I've needed to use it. Both RCBS and Hornady make many fine products, and I have nothing against their progressive presses - - I've simply never used them.
Best,
Johnny
I loaded for many years on a single stage RCBS press and waited FAR too long to go progressive. I finally bought a Dillon 550 in, I think, 1989. I have several comlete toolheads, powder measure and all, for it, plus a few spare toolheads for my lesser-loaded calibers. I still single-stage almost all my rifle cartridges.
I picked up a used Square Deal B set up for .38 Special two or three years ago. After I looked it over, I decided I'd never swap calbers on it - - Just too much trouble, and I already had conventional dies for almost every cartridge I'd want to load. I got a very good price on this used machine. I agree with James Thomson about the price difference, 550 vs. SDB. At today's prices, I'd not buy a new SDB.
I sent the SDB to Dillon for a complete refurbishing, and it works flawlessly, within design limitations. I'd prefer it to be set up for .45 ACP, as this is by far what I shoot the most. I don't load ANY heavy charges on the SDB, but this is fine, due to my likng for alloy framed revolvers.
It would be ideal for me to have two 550 presses, leaving one set up for each primer size, with the single stage for rifle stuff. I guess, with the rising ammo prices, I'll probably begin loading .223 progressively.
Pending aquisition of another 550, I'll keep the SDB. Like redneck2, I'm not overly fond of the auto indexing feature. I really LIKE the manual advance of the 550, so I can do a bit more quality control as I go. With the SDB, once you start the handle cycle, you are committed, and it is a (minor) hassle to pull a case out of the rotation. Personal preference. I've always preferred slow-and-steady production to blazing speed. (That is, until I'm short on .45 ammo, with a submachine match the next morning.
)I started out with a Dillon progressive and I'm another BIG fan of their customer service, seldom as I've needed to use it. Both RCBS and Hornady make many fine products, and I have nothing against their progressive presses - - I've simply never used them.
Best,
Johnny
brentfoto
member
I bought a SDB without really needing it. I am glad I did.
With five Lee die sets it could be argued that I should have purchased a 550B.
However, I don't fancy having to push a shellplate 500-600 times per hour with my thumb. If that notion does not bother you then by all means consider the 550B over the SDB.
I wanted auto-indexing, which ruled out the 550B, and did not want to spring for a 650 with a casefeeder. I believe there's no utility in a 650 without one and we're getting into quite a bit of expense there.
Some people just like auto-indexing, and I was accustomed to it with my Lee Classic Turret Press. IMO, manual indexing borders on 'dangerous'.
I only look at loading rates based on optimum setup. That is the only way to objectively rate speed. The SDB is a great machine. Shortly after getting it, and learning it, in a short test run I was able to load 13 rounds in about 75 seconds. That's over 600 rph. You're going fast if you can do 10 in a minute. Slow down if you want. 400 rph would be almost 'leisurely'.
Anyway, the learning curve and frustration ratio was less with the Dillon. I can not emphasize enough to buy both videos, even though they cover the 550 and 650 and not the SDB (there are many similarities-the videos are quite helpful!).
I still do love my Lee Classic Turret Press, but tell me - wouldn't you prefer one cycle of the handle for a completed round compared to four? And the AI is a delight!
The only caveat with the SDB-if you've fat fingers and big hands it's likely you will not enjoy the machine as there's a small working platform, shellplate, etc.
I don't consider myself mechanical. Through necessity, I have picked up some skills. Once you understand the SDB uniqueness, and the difference between the dies and what you get with a toolhead (die 'inserts') a caliber change is not at all intimidating. But with a progressive, it's best to load large amounts before changing calibers.
I bought the basic machine with 38/357 dies new and directly from Mr. Dillon. Certainly better than buying it "used" and for more money on ebay. I guess P.T. Barnum was right!
Just purchased one caliber conversion in 40 S&W and two additional toolheads. That will be it for me with the SDB. The rest will be loaded on the Lee-.30-06, 9mm, 45ACP (currently not shooting). I can do smaller batches of 38/357 and 40 S&W on my Lee.
With five Lee die sets it could be argued that I should have purchased a 550B.
However, I don't fancy having to push a shellplate 500-600 times per hour with my thumb. If that notion does not bother you then by all means consider the 550B over the SDB.
I wanted auto-indexing, which ruled out the 550B, and did not want to spring for a 650 with a casefeeder. I believe there's no utility in a 650 without one and we're getting into quite a bit of expense there.
Some people just like auto-indexing, and I was accustomed to it with my Lee Classic Turret Press. IMO, manual indexing borders on 'dangerous'.
I only look at loading rates based on optimum setup. That is the only way to objectively rate speed. The SDB is a great machine. Shortly after getting it, and learning it, in a short test run I was able to load 13 rounds in about 75 seconds. That's over 600 rph. You're going fast if you can do 10 in a minute. Slow down if you want. 400 rph would be almost 'leisurely'.
Anyway, the learning curve and frustration ratio was less with the Dillon. I can not emphasize enough to buy both videos, even though they cover the 550 and 650 and not the SDB (there are many similarities-the videos are quite helpful!).
I still do love my Lee Classic Turret Press, but tell me - wouldn't you prefer one cycle of the handle for a completed round compared to four? And the AI is a delight!
The only caveat with the SDB-if you've fat fingers and big hands it's likely you will not enjoy the machine as there's a small working platform, shellplate, etc.
I don't consider myself mechanical. Through necessity, I have picked up some skills. Once you understand the SDB uniqueness, and the difference between the dies and what you get with a toolhead (die 'inserts') a caliber change is not at all intimidating. But with a progressive, it's best to load large amounts before changing calibers.
I bought the basic machine with 38/357 dies new and directly from Mr. Dillon. Certainly better than buying it "used" and for more money on ebay. I guess P.T. Barnum was right!
Just purchased one caliber conversion in 40 S&W and two additional toolheads. That will be it for me with the SDB. The rest will be loaded on the Lee-.30-06, 9mm, 45ACP (currently not shooting). I can do smaller batches of 38/357 and 40 S&W on my Lee.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
