Stainless Steel, BRIGHT Nickel, or Both?

[Confederate]

I've long been a fan of stainless steel and bright nickel, and come to think of it, hard chrome. But lately I've wondered if stainless steel can be coated with bright nickel. I'd always wanted a S&W 59, but the early guns were just horrible. I'm not a pimp, but I've always kind of liked garish, sparkly things, and though I love seeing bright nickel Browning Hi-Powers in the movies, I'd hate to ruin the finish on my beautifully blued 1968 mint Belgium Hi-Power! (I don't have a Colt Python, but the bluing on the Hi-Power is about the same, minus the cool factor of the Python.)

But bluing is like your first love. It's really great for awhile, then time takes its toll. Holster wear and use begin to rub through the some areas of the gun, and finally they add “character” to the gun, meaning it wears through in places.

But my S&W 659 is the gun I'm thinking of plating. I'm just wondering if stainless steel can be nickel plated? Most guns plated are worn blued guns. I had a nickel plated S&W 29 years ago and loved the finish, but hated the gun! Even back then I knew not to use Hoppe's on it. I did a lot of hand loading back then and, call me a “wus,” I just didn't like being beaten up by an expensive gun. And though I have nothing against hunting, I just didn't personally like killing animals. Eating them is one thing. Back then there was a place out in Quantico, Virginia, where you could get all the barbecued beef ribs you could eat for a modest price. Eating them is one thing, and sneaking up on cows is mighty easy any time of day, but those damn cattle farmers had no sense of humor! Back before those datgum liberals moved in and turned the state blue, it was better, but back then they'd still hang you for cattle theft. I just thought cows were kind of like fat deer that moved slower, but they didn't agree.




S&W 659 (top) and 5906


Ruger Security-Six

Anyway, I got rid of the S&W 29, and now I'm wondering if I can nickel plate my S&W 659. That way it would look like a S&W 59, but have all the advantages of the 2nd generation guns. I'd also be interested in perhaps nickel-plating a Ruger Security-Six.These would be for cosmetic purposes only.

So can stainless steel be bright nickel plated and has anyone here actually done it?

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[Riomouse911]

You could... but then you’ll open it up to chipping, scratching, flaking and the possibility chemicals will alter the color.

Personally, if I wanted a super shiny ss gun I’d just polish it with Mothers with a very careful buffing wheel touch.

Factory-finish shiny stainless Old Vaquero.45C and a S&W Model 49 no-dash .38 in Nickel.



Not much of a difference other than the nickel plated gun is starting to yellow a little bit with age.

Just an opinion, nothing more .

Stay safe.

 

[bannockburn]

Confederate

Not sure but I don't think stainless steel is suitable for nickel plating. Typically you first had to put down on the base metal, copper plating because the nickel plate wouldn't adhere to just the metal surface. This was also why you didn't want to use Hoppes No.9 copper solvent as it might pass through the nickel plate and remove the copper plate underneath. Mahovsky's Metalife does offer bright nickel plating but the only one they say for sure that can be used on stainless steel is Nickel Boron Plating which is electroless nickel plating and it has a semi-bright appearance. I would give them a call for a definitive answer one way or the other.

I think your best bet would be to take Mother's Mag Polish to your stainless gun and try to make it as shiny as you like it. These two have been done by hand and they've turned out overall fairly shiny.

 

[Confederate]

You could... but then you’ll open it up to chipping, scratching, flaking and the possibility chemicals will alter the color. Personally, if I wanted a super shiny ss gun I’d just polish it with Mothers with a very careful buffing wheel touch.
Factory-finish shiny stainless Old Vaquero.45C and a S&W Model 49 no-dash .38 in Nickel. Not much of a difference other than the nickel plated gun is starting to yellow a little bit with age.

Yeah, I considered that. The only problems are that polishing my 659 would be difficult when it came to the frame of the gun, which is bead blasted. And even if I could polish the entire gun, stainless steel has a tendency to pick up scratches way too easy. True, stainless is the same color even below polishing, but the gun will pick up nicks and dings just by being picked up and set down. Nickel and hard chrome (especially the latter) don't. Hard chrome, in fact, has a Rockwell hardness rating of about 70-71. Stainless steel in handguns is much less, with a surface hardness of about 48-52. On the plus side, it resists flame cutting and the blast of the .357 magnum; but it tends to be softer than carbon steel. People who own S&W 66-no dash guns claim the metallurgy in their magnums is superior to subsequent models, but I've never seen it documented. S&W forged stainless seems to pick up nicks and scratches just as easily as Ruger investment cast stainless steel, so I don't know.


Browning Hi-Power

Some Colt Python owners hard chrome the hand (pawl) and star parts because the pawls are undersized and the hard chrome significantly slows wear of those parts. And I've heard Python owners complain about how often their guns go out of time. And whether the new Pythons have this same problem I don't know.




The Rossi 68 (top) and 88 (stainless). The latter is
notably of higher quality than the former.


I bought this model of Virginia Dragoon in the 1980s. The third time I fired it,
the hammer shattered like glass. The gun was returned.

Stay safe.

Thank you. You too. That's being increasingly difficult to do.

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[Confederate]

Not sure but I don't think stainless steel is suitable for nickel plating. Typically you first had to put down on the base metal, copper plating because the nickel plate wouldn't adhere to just the metal susurface. This was also why you didn't want to use Hoppes No.9 copper solvent as it might pass through the nickel plate and remove the copper plate underneath. Mahovsky's Metalife does offer bright nickel plating but the only one they say for sure that can be used on stainless steel is Nickel Boron Plating which is electroless nickel plating and it has a semi-bright appearance. I would give them a call for a definitive answer one way or the other.

THANKS. I'll try them. Mahovsky hard chromed my Beretta 70S and did a great job. I've had people stop me and ask me about this, my "stainless" Beretta.



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[bannockburn]

Confederate

Mahovsky hard chromed my Beretta 70S and did a great job. I've had people stop me and ask me about this, my "stainless" Beretta.

Yeah, I get that a lot too! Never gets old though...the "stainless" question or the gun!

 

[Hal]

You might want to hook up with these guys:
https://fordsguns.com/
They do all sorts of plating.

As far as taking stainless steel up to bright - I saw a bunch of guns like that & thought it would look really cool to take the slabs on my Ruger MarkII up to bright and leave the rest brushed stainless.
I went to an NAPA auto parts store and asked for an assortment of wet/dry. It was a couple of sheets of 800 through 1600 grit.
It took endless hours to hand sand it bright, but, when I was finished it looked great.

Sadly, the Ruger barrel is pretty soft. Just look at it the wrong way & it will scratch.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sadly, the Ruger barrel is pretty soft. Just look at it the wrong way & it will scratch.

With the exception of some internal parts, the steel in firearms is generally pretty soft relative to things like tools or knives. Rimfire barrels can be really soft. At one point I did some comparison work and figured out that some rimfire barrels are so soft that a really hard phosphor bronze alloy can actually be harder than the steel of the barrel. That was about the time I stopped using bore brushes on my rimfire barrels.

 

[edwardware]

I value incremental improvements in durability more than esthetics, so stainless is appealing and nickel-over-copper makes me nervous. I've seen too many peeling finishes.

OTOH, I see lots of chromed bumpers that have endured a decade or three of salty roads; that's a pretty high bar.

 

[Speedo66]

(I don't have a Colt Python, but the bluing on the Hi-Power is about the same, minus the cool factor of the Python.)

Some might dispute you as to which is cooler.... lol

 

[CraigC]

If I'm going to plate stainless, it's going to be with hard chrome.

 

[Confederate]

Yeah, I get that a lot too! Never gets old though...the "stainless" question or the gun!
View attachment 969386

Yes, those guns are great and Beretta is so slow and obstinate in the guns it sells. Its military and civilian "9s" are expensive, and when the U.S. military picked the Beretta, the U.S. guns shot up in price to more than $600 (which at the time was exorbitant). I promptly sold mine, took the $$$ and bought two Taurus PT92s! The Beretta 92s, at the time, were not as sleek as the ones today, and it was tough to tell the Beretta 92s from the Taurus 92s. But the Berettas shot up in price and the Taurus guns didn't, so it was a no-brainer. Taurus revolvers stunk, but the Taurus 9mm autos were built and assembled by one-time Beretta employees! And the Taurus autos gobbled up 9mm ammo just as hungrily as the Berettas!

Beretta discontinued the 70S when it could have continued them. It's one of the best .22 autos I've ever had. It's accurate, reliable and durable. I did notice, however, t that your gun had a different magazine release. Why is that? Very peculiar.

With the exception of some internal parts, the steel in firearms is generally pretty soft relative to things like tools or knives. Rimfire barrels can be really soft. At one point I did some comparison work and figured out that some rimfire barrels are so soft that a really hard phosphor bronze alloy can actually be harder than the steel of the barrel. That was about the time I stopped using bore brushes on my rimfire barrels.

I use nylon bristles, myself, though the copper bristles are supposed to be very soft. When the guns are hard chromed, though, they normally hard chrome the barrel as well. They used to not do it with .22 bores, but they found out they could do it with no problems.

Some might dispute you as to which is cooler.... lol

True. Now that the Browning has been discontinued, it's cool factor may, or will, go up. As for the Python, parts of it were a distasteful (to me, anyway) purple hue. Never knew why that is, but I've seen a lot of Pythons with purple parts.

 

[Hal]

With the exception of some internal parts, the steel in firearms is generally pretty soft relative to things like tools or knives. Rimfire barrels can be really soft.

Yeah - I know that now. Wish I had then.
I saw all those pretty pictures of bright polished revolvers and figured, "Why not"?

 

[Confederate]

Yeah - I know that now. Wish I had then. I saw all those pretty pictures of bright polished revolvers and figured, "Why not"?

I wouldn't fret over it. Stainless steel has been around a long time now and is very durable and well suited for handguns. The Ruger stainless Mark IIs are great guns and even my Rossi revolvers have held up well. Don't know about Taurus revolvers as I wouldn't own one. Taurus makes some purty handguns, but the only problems I had with them tended to be in tolerances, not metal softness. I was in Western Kentucky in the early 80s, and two Sheriff's deputies had S&W 681s that had their front sights rubbed off by their holsters. Soon thereafter, their accuracy began to seriously degrade. Both guns, and some others, were returned to S&W for inspection. The company determined that quality control had let steel that was too soft get through, and that it was so soft the leather holsters and hot magnum rounds were taking a toll on the guns.

This was about the same time S&W was running full page ads castigating Ruger for its investment casting process and pointing to its use of forged steel as being superior. The officers liked the 681s, but had to use stainless Ruger Security-Sixes while theirs were being repaired. Oh, the irony!

Actually, I like the 681s better than the Rugers, though in a SHTF scenario I'd take a Ruger any day. But when the "L-frames" came out, the things were so frighteningly accurate that they were the go-to gun for anyone wanting a gun that was at least as accurate, and was more durable than a Colt Python. And it could be had at a price one could afford. I still have a no-dash 686 in my safe that's never been fired. It has wood grips, a stamped side plate and hard chromed hammer and trigger. They just don't make 'em like that any more. I also have a beautiful 686-6 that's just beautiful, but it's just not as classy as the no-dash.

 

[bannockburn]

Confederate

Beretta discontinued the 70S when it could have continued them. It's one of the best .22 autos I've ever had. It's accurate, reliable and durable. I did notice, however, t that your gun had a different magazine release. Why is that? Very peculiar.

Yes that is kind of strange and also that I never noticed it before! I believe my Model 70S was one of the early ones being imported into the U.S. When I had problems with the bluing Beretta acknowledged that some of the first imported models (like mine), had this same problem and that Beretta would reblue them free of charge. When the problem reappeared some years later I decided that I had enough of this bluing nonsense and had Metalifed by Ron Mahovsky. Best gun refinishing decision I ever could have made!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Yes, you can plate Stainless Steel.

Generally speaking, a nickel strike is usually laid down first, then other metals can be plated on top of that.

Copper, Chrome, Gold, and other metals can be plated on top of the Nickel Strike.

But what is the point?

First off, let's understand a little bit about Stainless Steel. There are many different alloys of Stainless Steel. Many years ago, when I was a mechanical designer, we always called out Stainless Steel by its military designation, Corrosion Resistant Steel, or CRS for short. And that definition gets to the heart of Stainless Steel. It is not completely Corrosion Proof. It is Corrosion Resistant. At it's simplest level Stainless Steel is made by adding a small percentage of Chromium to the steel. About 11% Chromium is added to the steel. What this does is make the metal 'self healing'. Ordinarily, with iron or steel, in the presence of oxygen the metal corrodes, or rusts, forming iron oxide. Unabated, the corrosion will continue. The difference with Stainless Steel is when the metal is exposed to oxygen, the Chromium in the alloy immediately forms a very thin layer of Chromium Oxide. The Chromium Oxide is the same color as the steel, but more importantly it forms a barrier and prevents oxygen from reaching the rest of the metal under the thin layer of Chromium Oxide. Scratch the surface of the metal, and a new layer of Chromium Oxide forms, again protecting the underlying metal from atmospheric oxygen. That is what is meant by 'self healing'.

No Stainless Steel is truly stainless, or corrosion resistant. Subject it to heat, or strong chemicals, and most Stainless alloys will corrode.The corrosion is usually a dark gray color, rather than 'rust' color. There are different grades and alloys of Stainless Steel for different purposes, for instance some is better for use in a corrosive atmosphere.

Interestingly enough, when Ruger first introduced their Stainless version of the Vaquero they gave it a matte finish. They soon realized that giving the guns a high polish would closely resemble the nickel plated guns of the 19th Century, so right after that all Stainless Vaqueros came with a high polish. The pair of Vaqueros in the center of this photo are Stainless. Yes, there is a little bit of dark staining on them in the areas of the hammer because they have been shot pretty exclusively with Black Powder.






During the 19th Century, Smith and Wesson applied more nickel plated finishes than blued finishes to their smaller Top Break revolvers. The blued finishes of the 19th Century were not as robust as modern blue, and nickel plating was better at preventing corrosion than the blued finishes of the day.

An almost identical pair of Smith and Wesson New Model Number Threes. The one on the left was made in 1896, and there is lots of wear to the blue. The blue is mostly worn off most of the barrel. The one on the right left the factory in 1882 but it was refinished at the factory in 1965. No telling what it looked like before the refinish job.






A couple of nickel plated Safety Hammerless revolvers.






A 38 Single Action First Model, the Baby Russian, that left the factory in 1876. A little bit of freckling, but over all the nickel plating is in really great shape.






For something completely different, a Remington Model 1875. Not sure exactly when it left the factory, probably sometime around 1875. The plating is in pretty good condition, but there is some wear to it here and there.






OK, so why nickel plate a Stainless firearm today? There is an old English expression that goes "Carrying Coals to Newcastle." Newcastle was one of the principle coal mining areas in England, so Carrying Coals to Newcastle meant doing something completely unnecessary. Yes, nickel plating will probably prevent a Stainless firearm from corroding if it is kept in a very corrosive environment. Like under salt water.

Otherwise, there is no practical advantage, other than keeping it shiny, because yes, the Stainless Steel used in modern firearms does tend to scratch easily. As I said before, the scratch will be self healing and will not rust. But a scratch will be obvious, particularly on a Stainless firearm with a matte finish.

Personally I prefer blued firearms to Stainless. Just what I like better. Other than those antique Smiths, most of my modern firearms are blued (a lot of the antiques are too). I do have a few modern Stainless revolvers, but not very many.

From what I've seen, the great majority of revolvers that Smith and Wesson is producing these days are Stainless, not blued. The reason is simple. The traditional high luster blue that S&W applied to their firearms required a great deal of polishing, done by expert polishers. These guys did nothing but polish guns all day long, using a great variety of polishing wheels. It was very labor intensive process, and as we all know, time equals money. A Stainless revolver simply does not require the same amount of hand polishing as a blued revolver, so it is less expensive to produce them.


Here is my newest Stainless piece. Sorry for posting it here in the revolver section, but here it is anyway. A Stainless 9mm S&W 1911 Pro Series. I like it a lot. Notice it is not a bright, highly polished finish, it is more of a matte finish. I like it just as it is, have no intention of having it nickel plated. When it gets a few nicks and scratches I won't be doing anything about them, I will just let it accumulate some honest wear.

 

[Confederate]

I believe my Model 70S was one of the early ones being imported into the U.S. When I had problems with the bluing Beretta acknowledged that some of the first imported models (like mine), had this same problem and that Beretta would reblue them free of charge.

Me, too. There was a rust problem on the other side of the gun, on the frame. I went at it with a small piece of soft leather and some Breakfree and, later, with a Q-tip and Breakfree. The rust returned each time on the same place. So, like you, I sent mine off to Mahovsky's. I found a leather holster for it at a military surplus store for seven bucks. You might find one, too. Mine is brown and has a flap, and a place for the spare magazine. I'll try to take some photos tomorrow so you know what to look for. I'll also try looking at eBay.

 

[Confederate]

Yes, you can plate Stainless Steel. Generally speaking, a nickel strike is usually laid down first, then other metals can be plated on top of that: Copper, Chrome, Gold, and other metals can be plated on top of the Nickel. But what is the point?

Ah, what's the point of gold? It's all in the shine! Yes, hard chrome is the best finish one can choose, but I've always liked nickel.

Regarding stainless steel, the government did tests on a S&W 60 .38 Special and a S&W 36 carbon steel gun. What did it learn? First, the obvious: that stainless steel greatly resisted corrosion. What it didn't know was that it resisted corrosion to a point, then began to corrode at a higher rate than stainless. Bluing is simply controlled rust, then polished, and so on. So after a bit, the stainless was rapidly destroyed, while the 36 rusted to a degree and then stopped. At one point I had photos of both guns and the government's conclusions on why the corrosion rates occurred art the rates they did. (At the time, no one but cops could get S&W 60s, so many of us who weren't cops had a hard time with the government destroying a perfectly good Model 60, not to mention the Model 36, which also was a desired handgun.)

When Curtis Sliwa, head of New York's GUARDIAN ANGELS came to Washington, D.C., to look into starting a chapter, he was shoved into a van and roughed up by a bunch of guys wearing ski masks and warned not to come to Washington. After his release, he told reporters the men were cops. When asked how he knew this, he explained the men who threatened him had Model 60s, and no one but cops had Model 60s at the time. The police, who initially disputed the men were cops, then had nothing to say because he was right!)

Now, decades later, guys like me can own Model 60s (and 36s, which I also own). But those were different times.




S&W 60


S&W 36

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[bannockburn]

Confederate

Me, too. There was a rust problem on the other side of the gun, on the frame. I went at it with a small piece of soft leather and some Breakfree and, later, with a Q-tip and Breakfree. The rust returned each time on the same place. So, like you, I sent mine off to Mahovsky's.

Sounds like your gun was like mine then and was one of those early ones they imported. Never came across a flap holster for it but still have an older Uncle Mike's nylon holster for it that has served me very well for many years on a lot of backwoods hikes.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Ah, what's the point of gold? It's all in the shine!

Howdy Again

The electronics industry uses gold plating because it is electrically conductive, and does not corrode. Once upon a time when I worked in the electronics industry, all the stuff we were making that literally was going to go into orbit had gold plating on the circuits. The idea was no one was ever going to be able to service that stuff, so the circuits, not the whole thing, were gold plated to lengthen their service life. Here on earth you can find higher end connectors that are gold plated for the same reason. Gold does not corrode. You can throw pure gold into the ocean and recover it years later and it is still nice and yellow and shiny. Of course, nobody is plating Stainless Steel with gold for electronic purposes, but it is done on top of copper circuits all the time. Yes, it costs more, but the payback is in longer service life.




Model 60, shipped 1975. Notice the 'satin' finish on the hammer and trigger.






A couple of Model 36s. A flat latch that shipped in 1961.






Another Model 36 that shipped in 1969.

 

[Confederate]

Nice photos. They look well used. On the Model 60, there appears to be some discoloration on the cylinder release and ejector rod. Is that corrosion? Why not take a toothbrush soaked in BreakFree and see if you can't remove it?

As for the flash chromed hammer and trigger, I sure hatred to see S&W eliminate that. I have a 686-no-dash that has them and it's beautiful.



My dad gave me his Model 60 shortly before he passed, then a neighbor gave me her husband's Model 36 when he passed. (She hates firearms, and she gave me her husband's 36, and she gave me her husband's mint Browning Hi-Power (vintige 1968) and a mint S&W 6906 and two spare magazines. She wouldn't take any money for them; she just hates guns. Ane even before her husband's body was cold, she wanted those two guns out! Being a diligent neighbor, I took them off her hands. The Model 36 has a slight ring around the cylinder, but the gun's beautiful blue is still there. It also is a vintage 1968 pistol. She later gave me two old rifle, one carbine, but I;m a revolver guy, and I sold then each for about a grand. I'm starting to regret selling the carbine as the buyer showed what it will do in a video he posted. I could have had it hard chromed.



Anyway, I love vintage handguns and the 36 is the only blued revolver I have. It's gorgeous. My drawer gun is a Rossi 88 stainless with a 3-inch barrel. I figure that if I have to shoot anyone, the cops will most likely take the gun if there's any litigation.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

On the Model 60, there appears to be some discoloration on the cylinder release and ejector rod. Is that corrosion? Why not take a toothbrush soaked in BreakFree and see if you can't remove it?

Too lazy.

 

[P5 Guy]

lately I've wondered if stainless steel can be coated with bright nickel.

Yes, stainless steel can be plated. Bright nickel, sulfamate nickel, eletroless nickel will all work. I worked in a plating shop for a few years and at that same factory for 15 years. No copper does NOT have to be applied first, not to bright nickel or to chrome.
My question is why one would want to go to the expense of plating a stainless steel pistol/revolver with any coating?

 

[CraigC]

My question is why one would want to go to the expense of plating a stainless steel pistol/revolver with any coating?

To change the color. Hard chrome over stainless would result in about the most corrosion and wear resistance you could ask for. Some folks have a body chemistry that is corrosive even to stainless steel. Hard chrome would alleviate that.

 

[Confederate]

Yes, stainless steel can be plated. Bright nickel, sulfamate nickel, eletroless nickel will all work. ... My question is why one would want to go to the expense of plating a stainless steel pistol/revolver with any coating?

This Taurus PT92 is shiny and, to some, garish.

Ever see the movie PULP FICTION? Remember the Hi-Power used by Samuel Jackson? It was bright nickel plated and I loved it! In the case of my Hi-Power, I can't bring myself to destroy that beautiful bluing. It's gorgeous. Okay, it's not stainless steel, but it's the same principle. Bright nickel is purty. It's pleasing to the eye. I couldn't afford a S&W 59 (not monetarily, but the fact that they didn't work!). So if I nickel plate a S&W 659, it will look awesome! Or if I nickel plate a Ruger Security-Six, it will be, talk about a conversation piece!

But it has to be on the other side of this virus.


The S&W 659 would look incredible nickel-plated.