J-Bar
Member
Don't let your buddies sit around in the store, taking up your time and talking with customers. Greet everyone who comes in within one minute.
Starting a gun shop
- Thread starter KY DAN
- Start date
Reasonable prices for transfer. Don't flip out if someone wants you to do a transfer. They may become a customer for something else.
Keep the politics out of the store. Many new buyers from outside one political, ethnic, racial demographic nowadays. Don't let employees rant about politics. Read the source I recommend about attracting female customers.
Keep the politics out of the store. Many new buyers from outside one political, ethnic, racial demographic nowadays. Don't let employees rant about politics. Read the source I recommend about attracting female customers.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 26,299
My father, who was a very successful salesman, gave me this bit of advice when I first started working in Sales.
He told me: "Treat every customer the exact same way you would want to be treated if you were the customer".
He told me: "Treat every customer the exact same way you would want to be treated if you were the customer".
I'm not a businessman.
That said, expecting to make 40% on the sale of used guns versus 20% (example) on new ones? Why that discrepancy?
Long time ago, I had a gun dealer that I felt did me right on trades; he was in another town but I would drive there just to do business with him. I had him order me new guns in addition to trading my used ones to him sometimes. I did a lot of repeat business there because I thought he was fair. As I recall, my opinion is he was not trying to make 40% on the guns I traded; if he did, it was not by blatantly low balling my trades.
Gun shop nearest where I live now, my expectation is I'm going to get ripped on a trade. While back I had a Kahr P9 that I wanted to trade to a new Glock 17. Closest gun store to where I live offered me $150 for the Kahr; I walked out and drove to the next store. At the 2nd store I'm offered $200 for the Kahr and a new Glock 17 is the same price as the 1st place.
The expectation that I will be ripped off doesn't inspire me to want to trade guns with that gun store; I'm weird like that.
Disclaimer: In before just sell them yourself. Yes, I have sold my used handguns on Gunbroker in the past, so I am not unfamiliar with that option.
That said, expecting to make 40% on the sale of used guns versus 20% (example) on new ones? Why that discrepancy?
Long time ago, I had a gun dealer that I felt did me right on trades; he was in another town but I would drive there just to do business with him. I had him order me new guns in addition to trading my used ones to him sometimes. I did a lot of repeat business there because I thought he was fair. As I recall, my opinion is he was not trying to make 40% on the guns I traded; if he did, it was not by blatantly low balling my trades.
Gun shop nearest where I live now, my expectation is I'm going to get ripped on a trade. While back I had a Kahr P9 that I wanted to trade to a new Glock 17. Closest gun store to where I live offered me $150 for the Kahr; I walked out and drove to the next store. At the 2nd store I'm offered $200 for the Kahr and a new Glock 17 is the same price as the 1st place.
The expectation that I will be ripped off doesn't inspire me to want to trade guns with that gun store; I'm weird like that.
Disclaimer: In before just sell them yourself. Yes, I have sold my used handguns on Gunbroker in the past, so I am not unfamiliar with that option.
This is Business - 101. It is CRITICAL to know your expenses. This is the best advice in the entire thread!
You should also know how much money you have tied up in inventory at all times. And how long each inventory item has been on the books... you need to know what sells, what doesn't and what you need to lower the price on to get it out the door and free up working capitol. Some times it is better to take a loss on something rather than sit on it for the next 10 years and only break even. Over paying for something happens (especially when you are starting out), you need to get over the mistake and move on.
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Speedo66
Member
I had a retail store for a while, not a fan of it to be honest. Always something, went to sleep thinking about, dreamt about it, woke up thinking about, always another problem.
Staffing problems, theft, burglaries, etc, etc. When you own it, there’s no calling in sick, and forget weekends.
As far as my experience Re: a gun store, I can just point to one that opened not far from me, a one trick pony, strictly tactical. Unless you came in with a beard and tattoos, you were pretty much ignored. Tactical weapons only.
They didn’t last long.
I wish you good luck in your endeavor!
Staffing problems, theft, burglaries, etc, etc. When you own it, there’s no calling in sick, and forget weekends.
As far as my experience Re: a gun store, I can just point to one that opened not far from me, a one trick pony, strictly tactical. Unless you came in with a beard and tattoos, you were pretty much ignored. Tactical weapons only.
They didn’t last long.
I wish you good luck in your endeavor!
Buzznrose
Member
Yep. I think he also owned a boat…LOL!
To the OP, my biggest gripe locally is hours. Most LGS in my area open at 1000 and close at 1800. Figure out the clientele and when they can shop.
Good luck!
CapnMac
Member
You need a plan to be able to pay your fixed costs, which means being able to control as many of those as you can.
LGS is a pretty specialized building any more, for needing more security and protection than the average Class C commercial rental can offer. You for sure do not want to have to pay for Pad Leases, either. That points towards owning the land and the building if at all possible. Being out from under onerous City taxes will also help control your costs, too. But, you have to balance all that versus Location convenience, too.
Having those fixed costs to bear is also why you can't scrimp on selling things with the best profit margins--which are your accessories and ephemera. Which is why it can be to your advantage to find an "image promotion company" to flog you off things like hats, drink coozies, various trinkets (do not overlook getting markers made up for targets, or custom pasters made, or paper targets).
There are few things as hard as making a payroll--and it's far too easy to get into the ludicrously bad habit of not paying yourself, too.
There are too few hours in the day, and too many tasks, too.
Have you thought about who is going to mop the floor?
Or when somebody is coming in to dust all the things? (Or wipe all the fingerprints off all the things?)
I've run a couple of businesses before--there's an old adage about being self-employed, that "It's easy, you only work half days--the first half or the last half, Every Single Day." Somebody has to answer the phone. Now-a-days, somebody better answer emails, and right quickly. If that person is you, it can be right tough to have to take a sick day, or a vacation day, or go to your kid's sports tournament. If it's your employee, you have to plan for when they have to do any of those things
LGS is really tough to run with a "weekend off," too. Some places can manage if you go "restaurant style" and take Sunday & Monday off; some can't. Some can take Mondays & Tuesdays off; again, some can't. 9-7 seven days a week is tough sledding. And, you need overlap for your employees to be open that many hours, too.
Now, an upside to an LGS, is your really need almost no "back room" at all. You can rack things to the ceiling, and put "bulk storage" from around 7' high to the ceiling if wanted. Now, that brings us around to the bane of an LGS--Store Fixtures. Unless you can got raid a big retailer going out of business, Store Fixtures are ludicrous expensive. Glass cases lead that list. Especially glass cases stout enough to cope with customer abuse. Just wait until you get quotes fro SlatWall or similar display walls surfaces [eyeroll].
LGS is a pretty specialized building any more, for needing more security and protection than the average Class C commercial rental can offer. You for sure do not want to have to pay for Pad Leases, either. That points towards owning the land and the building if at all possible. Being out from under onerous City taxes will also help control your costs, too. But, you have to balance all that versus Location convenience, too.
Having those fixed costs to bear is also why you can't scrimp on selling things with the best profit margins--which are your accessories and ephemera. Which is why it can be to your advantage to find an "image promotion company" to flog you off things like hats, drink coozies, various trinkets (do not overlook getting markers made up for targets, or custom pasters made, or paper targets).
There are few things as hard as making a payroll--and it's far too easy to get into the ludicrously bad habit of not paying yourself, too.
There are too few hours in the day, and too many tasks, too.
Have you thought about who is going to mop the floor?
Or when somebody is coming in to dust all the things? (Or wipe all the fingerprints off all the things?)
I've run a couple of businesses before--there's an old adage about being self-employed, that "It's easy, you only work half days--the first half or the last half, Every Single Day." Somebody has to answer the phone. Now-a-days, somebody better answer emails, and right quickly. If that person is you, it can be right tough to have to take a sick day, or a vacation day, or go to your kid's sports tournament. If it's your employee, you have to plan for when they have to do any of those things
LGS is really tough to run with a "weekend off," too. Some places can manage if you go "restaurant style" and take Sunday & Monday off; some can't. Some can take Mondays & Tuesdays off; again, some can't. 9-7 seven days a week is tough sledding. And, you need overlap for your employees to be open that many hours, too.
Now, an upside to an LGS, is your really need almost no "back room" at all. You can rack things to the ceiling, and put "bulk storage" from around 7' high to the ceiling if wanted. Now, that brings us around to the bane of an LGS--Store Fixtures. Unless you can got raid a big retailer going out of business, Store Fixtures are ludicrous expensive. Glass cases lead that list. Especially glass cases stout enough to cope with customer abuse. Just wait until you get quotes fro SlatWall or similar display walls surfaces [eyeroll].
'My state' is difficult considering the many state governments that have taken on this kind of business. Many states are a poor choice for a new business of this type?
Without a realistic 5, 10 year plan, it could be a very big waste of time and money. Make a plan for where you are, and where the business is going. Is this a break even proposition, and do you see one or more people making a living from actual profits?
Without a sound accounting system, and tax planning,, business license plans, and other planning, you are putting the cart before the horse. Startup expenses are one thing. Beginning operations and sales without a system in place, you're in the dark without a flashlight, and missing vital recordkeeping.
Don't forget about off-site data storage. If you think paying for cloud space monthly is necessary, it may not be. External hard drives are a cinch, and not a monthly cash expense. No money spent on unnecessary items is important to keep circulating cash from sales. It's a deductable expense means cash spent.
Without a realistic 5, 10 year plan, it could be a very big waste of time and money. Make a plan for where you are, and where the business is going. Is this a break even proposition, and do you see one or more people making a living from actual profits?
Without a sound accounting system, and tax planning,, business license plans, and other planning, you are putting the cart before the horse. Startup expenses are one thing. Beginning operations and sales without a system in place, you're in the dark without a flashlight, and missing vital recordkeeping.
Don't forget about off-site data storage. If you think paying for cloud space monthly is necessary, it may not be. External hard drives are a cinch, and not a monthly cash expense. No money spent on unnecessary items is important to keep circulating cash from sales. It's a deductable expense means cash spent.
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Jim Watson
Member
Anecdote Alert:
People had been saying as long as I have lived here (50 years full time) "We need an indoor range." But there is a city ordnance against firing a gun in the city limits and nobody had enough pull to get it repealed. So when a couple of entrepreneurs got set to build one, they put it in a suburb and advertised lower taxes.
The funny part was that on opening day, the city mayor came out and spoke about the new business and employment here. But his administration isn't making anything off of it.
People had been saying as long as I have lived here (50 years full time) "We need an indoor range." But there is a city ordnance against firing a gun in the city limits and nobody had enough pull to get it repealed. So when a couple of entrepreneurs got set to build one, they put it in a suburb and advertised lower taxes.
The funny part was that on opening day, the city mayor came out and spoke about the new business and employment here. But his administration isn't making anything off of it.
ballman6711
Member
This^^^. All day, every day.
And this^^^. In four years of having my own business, I didn't have a single sick day. I did have days where customers wanted to schedule work, and I would tell them I was booked up, and that I could do the work the day before or the day after, but not that specific day. I did this to have a day off, or more specifically, to spend 10~12 hours (or more) sitting in my office catching up on paperwork that I had fallen behind on. My glass business would be different than your gun shop in this respect, you probably don't want to fall behind on your logbooks, but other things like inventory, etc..., you may fall behind on. You can fix those things and catch up "on your day off" if you have one.
This is another good one, I answered my phone (I worked out of my garage at home) from 7AM until 9PM every day of the week, even when "I took a day off".
My last two years in business, it wasn't uncommon for me to work 15 hour days. I did make money, and had enough to live comfortably, if not well, but I believe it was at least part of what cost me my marriage. And "Every Single Day" is 100% correct. It was actually very unusual if I didn't work at least 45 days straight without a day off, and my days off were spent in my office, catching up on paperwork.
Think of a new business as an infant. Your infant. Your baby. You wouldn't leave your child alone, unattended, and if you want to have a successful business you won't leave that alone, unattended either.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
chris
CapnMac
Member
Few things as illuminating as signing a PO for $90K for lumber the same day you buy an excavator (to stop renting them), and have to balance the checkbook to see when you can pay the mechanic $150 to fix your ride.
I have to give you money and then tie that money up until the gun sells. Pay the bills, employees, insurance, and try to make a profit. I'd love to give you what I can eventually sell it for, but I won't be in business long that way. I can give you 60% of book so I can sell it for 80% of book and end up breaking even. You can shop it around and see if anyone will give you the $1200 for it, but your time has to be worth something and that's really all I'm asking...sell it to me at a price so I can pay for my time and expenses reselling it.
BTW, You're not going to make 30% on average. Maybe 10 on guns. Where you make profit is on all the other things you can mark up 80% and sell.
Outlaw75
Member
Basically what @hso just posted. If it's any comfort, you won't be the only guy in the business that has to say that.
Also, a little tip from some friends of mine who've been in various collectables businesses (coins, comics, vinyl LP's); don't skim off the good stuff you buy or take as trade-in for yourself.
Bazoo
Member
Layaway services sells a lot of guns.
Having the cheapest transfer fees around may be of benefit. I used to do a lot of business with a shop. When I first bought online and asked about the transfer he said no charge since I was a regular. That was 20 years ago. Shame he’s gone.
He also kept coffee and a couple chairs around. It was a nice atmosphere.
Another shop I was at, I asked to see a gun and the guy asked “are you going to buy it today?” It took a long time before I went back, after that clerk was gone.
When I was still a kid, one local shop showed me how to adjust my iron sights, and even gave me a brass punch. Stuff like that helps keep the customers coming back.
Another thing that draws me, is a bargain bin. Holsters and such.
A shop I don’t care, they stare at their phone unless they suspect you’re going to make a purchase. I browse a lot. I also purchase and trade. That’s shop never has used guns unless they are pristine. Never any bargains to be had there.
That shop does have some nice displaces of vintage ammo boxes and gear though and it’s neat to see.
Having the cheapest transfer fees around may be of benefit. I used to do a lot of business with a shop. When I first bought online and asked about the transfer he said no charge since I was a regular. That was 20 years ago. Shame he’s gone.
He also kept coffee and a couple chairs around. It was a nice atmosphere.
Another shop I was at, I asked to see a gun and the guy asked “are you going to buy it today?” It took a long time before I went back, after that clerk was gone.
When I was still a kid, one local shop showed me how to adjust my iron sights, and even gave me a brass punch. Stuff like that helps keep the customers coming back.
Another thing that draws me, is a bargain bin. Holsters and such.
A shop I don’t care, they stare at their phone unless they suspect you’re going to make a purchase. I browse a lot. I also purchase and trade. That’s shop never has used guns unless they are pristine. Never any bargains to be had there.
That shop does have some nice displaces of vintage ammo boxes and gear though and it’s neat to see.
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HUGE problem for enthusiasts I've seen more than once suck the profits out of a gun shop
Most people have traded in a car to a dealer. Nobody who has traded in a car should be questioning why they can only get $800 or $900 for a $1200 gun. They know they blew thousands every time they did a trade in or sold a car to a dealer. Because it's easier.
If they don't like what they're getting paid from the dealer, they can sell it themselves. Meet buyers halfway and they don't show up.
Put the gun online and ship it to another state. Sometimes that works out great, but sometimes you complete a transaction wondering if the buyer ties his own shoes. And probably still don't get what the gun shop can get for it, because you're literally an amateur.
pharmer
Member
When I moved here 43 years ago there was a well established family owned LGS that bought guns for 1/3 to 40% of retail price. This was before the pawn shops took that business. When he went out of business every inch of wall space was covered in unsold long guns. Display cabinets full of pistols. His mistake; sale prices at full retail. He bought cheap and instead of making 10-20% of something he got all of nothing. Joe
Thinking about the local stores in the two recent locales that we lived, I note:
1. It's not just about the gun stock. Most of the stores have something else.
a. A range and rentals
b. Lessons from beginner to advanced. Special classes for women and SD applications (note have employees and yourself well research on firearms issues for women and associated carry methods - might look at the corneredcat web page.)
c. Gunsmith
2. Other items - one local store has good outdoor clothing, archery and fishing gear. Another is located in a general purpose hardware store - not saying one should do that but points to a retail establishment have more than just gun sales.
3. Scout out the local competition in easy driving distance.
4. What are the upcoming regulations and laws? Locally, a licensing rule moving semi rifles to 21 took away half the sales of such guns as young guys 18 to < 21 were a prime market for such. The necessity of an expensive handgun class is killing some handgun sales (the local stores are offering such). If your state might move to such, something to thing about.
I'm not seeing just a small gun store in today's market, of course, that depends on local conditions.
I again think that the comments on pure business concerns - about managing a store and your life are well taken.
A side bar - I had to sell some guns because a move made it easier. I could wail about the price I got. Some I sold for what, essentially, I paid for them. Some might be a little loss. I though about it this way. Let's say I bought the gun for $400. I sold it for $350. Thus, over about 5 years, I rented the gun for $10 a year. Not bad, considering the cost of a one day car rental or going out to dinner with the loved ones.
1. It's not just about the gun stock. Most of the stores have something else.
a. A range and rentals
b. Lessons from beginner to advanced. Special classes for women and SD applications (note have employees and yourself well research on firearms issues for women and associated carry methods - might look at the corneredcat web page.)
c. Gunsmith
2. Other items - one local store has good outdoor clothing, archery and fishing gear. Another is located in a general purpose hardware store - not saying one should do that but points to a retail establishment have more than just gun sales.
3. Scout out the local competition in easy driving distance.
4. What are the upcoming regulations and laws? Locally, a licensing rule moving semi rifles to 21 took away half the sales of such guns as young guys 18 to < 21 were a prime market for such. The necessity of an expensive handgun class is killing some handgun sales (the local stores are offering such). If your state might move to such, something to thing about.
I'm not seeing just a small gun store in today's market, of course, that depends on local conditions.
I again think that the comments on pure business concerns - about managing a store and your life are well taken.
A side bar - I had to sell some guns because a move made it easier. I could wail about the price I got. Some I sold for what, essentially, I paid for them. Some might be a little loss. I though about it this way. Let's say I bought the gun for $400. I sold it for $350. Thus, over about 5 years, I rented the gun for $10 a year. Not bad, considering the cost of a one day car rental or going out to dinner with the loved ones.
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redneck2
Member
For a while I worked at a LGS that had a range. There are very extensive and expensive regulations, plus insurance. The only way we were able to keep it was because it was grandfathered in. I would research it very extensively before making any commitments
Back in the 70's in New Jersey, I knew a guy that ran a retail gun store in his basement. Very well stocked, reload equipment, accessories, but only sold new guns at the MSRP. He was retired from Bell Telephone, had a great pension, house paid off, so he didn't need the money. He would not budge a penny on his price and would brag he wasn't a discount store. If you went in a couple of years later, he would have the same guns collecting dust, but would jack the price up on a 5-year-old dusty new gun, if the MSRP went up on that particular model. I would go in there, because he was an avid big bore handgun hunter (stuffed animals everywhere) decent gunsmith, specializing in custom honed Colt Revolvers, and 1911's. One time he had The Shotgun News laid out on his counter, back then a major source of gun discount for FFL's. He saw me glancing at it, got nervous, and quickly pulled it away. Lol, he didn't want me to see what he was paying for the guns. I had eventually moved to California, and googled him several years later, he had died, and someone had bought out his entire inventory from his estate.
PistoleroWadcutterGANG
Member
Might add: if potential customer comes in with rarities. Don't pull out the (Blue Book of gun nonsense) and tell highly knowledgeable collectors, shooters: people with long gun histories. "The book says it's worth". They will just leave and spread word. People will just take those items that you can make a nice and fair profit on to the gun shows or sell by club connection. Best thing to do is take their info down and ask for a contact phone number and tell them. with unusual, rare and hard to find pieces we want to be fair with you". Please if you have the time let us do research and come up with a fair offer". They are far more likely to work with you and you get your profit.
hoardingthemanual
Member
Learn how to deal with know it all's.
dogtown tom
Member
Paying what its worth to you is not taking advantage of anyone. Lying about the value would be. Make a sign "We pay no more than 60% of retail value on used guns". You can always explain how the owner could go about selling that firearm on their own, using GB, online gun forums, etc.
Write a business plan.
From the retail gun stores that have gone out of business in my area its clear that they had no clue about operating a retail gun store. One had even operated a retail gun store for decades, sold out, then after his noncompete was up tried to have a go again. He failed.
I caution you on opening a brick and mortar. If you have a range you have a far better chance of surviving.
TomJ
Contributing Member
If you do consignments be tactful in the way you handle customers who’s requested sale price is out of line. There’s a small gun shop in my area who leaves consignment pricing up to customers, which is fine except that they have quite a few consignment guns taking up what little space they have which haven’t sold for quite some time as they’re way over priced. When I asked about a couple of them I was told the owner wouldn’t budge on the price. The space those guns are taking up could be used for something which would sell.
