Status Quo of Firearms

[toivo]

British gun owners went back to muzzle loading revolvers, initially, altho' their popularity fell away as they came to appreciate their limitations. Pistol-caliber lever actions became the pistol/revolver substitute, and 10/22s.
The AR platform is still used, in manually operated form.

Semi-auto AR-platform rifles are still legal in .22 LR only:

http://www.southpointfirearms.co.uk/chiappa-ar15-mfour-22-22lr-semi-auto/

Antis love to tout British-style gun laws, but ironically (and sadly) this is a rifle that UK citizens can own but I, as a resident of NY State, can't.

 

[Laggy]

My honest opinion, it's not even a red versus blue thing it's an Authoritarian vs. Libertarian thing (Or have you all forgotten that Reagan signed the Mulford Act and W promised to sign a PERMANENT extension of the 94 AWB if it made it to his desk and Dan Crenshaw thinks Red Flag laws are dandy).

The next time there is an authoritarian majority in the House , Senate and White House, Hell yes, they're going to take your AR15.

You’re my new favorite on here. Also, mandatory minimums, 3-strikes, asset forfeiture, no-knock warrants, extension of patriot act all came into being/happened under Red and Blue rule...

Back on topic: doesn’t the progression of weapons follow military usage? I don’t see things going backwards technologically. And as far as federal government limitations on capacity, until dissolving the BATF is on the table, you never know what’s up these fools’ sleeves.

 

[Old Dog]

So what I'm seeing in this thread is that not only do we seem to have members who've accepted that magazine capacity limits may be on our horizon, but they're okay with that. Some of us believe more regulation only leads to further regulation.

While I actually read all of Fiv3r's self-described rant, and agree with much of what he says -- yes, we do need to change the dialog -- I disagree with what he said about most voters not being one issue voters. Perhaps on one side; while the Democrats are certainly becoming one-issue only (Not Trump) for this election, they have so many special interest groups competing for their own agendas, they tend to self-destruct to an degree. But I see every Democrat I know chafing at the bit to go to the polls to cast a ballot to protect a single pet issue, be it gays who think ACB will overturn their right to marry, people fearful of Roe v. Wade being overturned and thus women losing "the right to chose," minorities who believe the Dems are the only thing standing between them and being gunned down by police ... Everybody has one issue above all.

The gun rights issue has made single-issue voters out of conservatives due to the paucity of Democrats on the side of RKBA.

There isn't ever going to be enough political will to move in massive jolts.

The growing socialist movement with the Democrat party seems to belie that. Lemmings moving toward the cliff ...

 

[Jim Watson]

members who've accepted that magazine capacity limits may be on our horizon, but they're okay with that. Some of us believe more regulation only leads to further regulation.

I am not okay with it but I am not a die in front of my gun case defending my 'nannerclips, type either.
I got through AWB94 and I will choose to survive the next one.
Regulation breeds more regulation? You bet, that is all the regulatory state knows how to do, even if it amounts to reinforcing failure.

 

[AlexanderA]

The gun rights issue has made single-issue voters out of conservatives due to the paucity of Democrats on the side of RKBA.

I just got the November issue of the American Rifleman with Trump on the cover. I'm an NRA life member, and this is the first time I've thrown the magazine in the trash without reading it. The NRA has jumped the shark with its partisanship.

 

[Jim Watson]

And what would you suggest NRA do now that they are primarily a lobbying group?

 

[danmc]

I don’t want to see our rkba go the way of the English rkba- keep the camel well away from your tent flap

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Our rights regarding firearms have been continuously encroached upon since the 1930's. If not sooner. Little by little, baby step by baby step, we've slowly lost our firearms rights. That much the same will continue, I do not deign to argue. It will occur. The only question is... how fast ?

 

[AK103K]

That old quote attributed to Caligula has a lot of merit here...."Let them hate, so long as they fear".

Lots of gun right losses over time, and lots of whining and complaining, and lots of fear, and nothing ever done.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

That old quote attributed to Caligula has a lot of merit here...."Let them hate, so long as they fear".

Lots of gun right losses over time, and lots of whining and complaining, and lots of fear, and nothing ever done.

Aye. It gives me a laugh when a few buddies of mine get uppity, "Why, if XXX ever happens, I'll go down fighting !!!". They looked at me when I didn't say anything, and I just smiled and told em "Im still waiting for you to "go down fighting" from last time."

Short and sweet, I highly doubt anything is ever going to happen to stop or even slow the loss of our rights.

 

[Ivy Mike]

The growing socialist movement with the Democrat party seems to belie that. Lemmings moving toward the cliff ...

This kind of language is why you have a hard time connecting with guys like myself on the left.
The real socialists don't like being associated with the neoliberal Democratic party, but they don't have a lot of options for representation.
The Democrats who are agreeable with social programs don't like being called socialists because, they aren't socialists.

Broadly categorizing Democrats as being single issue voters rings pretty hollow. The issue is not just Anti-Trump. Trump represents a great many things that bother all manner of left-leaning Americans albeit for different reasons.
As far as how this might effect guns, I get the feeling that a fair number of Democrats have begun to adopt more of a wait-and-see approach. Many of us have learned that gun regulation is an absolute loser and aren't really willing to engage in it, especially after the Heller and McDonald decisions.
In fact, one of the guys who called himself a Democratic Socialist; Bernie Sanders (who isn't really a socialist), has been historically tepid on supporting gun legislation. A fact that primary opponents were happy to use to beat him over the head. He tried to more closely align with the DNC platform for 2020, unsuccessfully so.
It's something of a difficult time for the Democratic Party even though they look to be on the cusp of a pretty substantial win in a couple weeks. Support for gun legislation is low, even among actual Democratic politicians and their constituents, despite still being a part of the DNC platform with the usual assault weapons legislation, universal background checks, ending online sales, etc. It's one of the reasons I sought out and joined the Socialist Rifle Association, because I believe the Democrats approach to gun control is wrong and causes more harm than good. It only takes a quick look at statistics on poverty and the war on drugs to realize that gun laws aren't effective in reducing crime.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Our rights regarding firearms have been continuously encroached upon since the 1930's. If not sooner. Little by little, baby step by baby step, we've slowly lost our firearms rights. That much the same will continue, I do not deign to argue. It will occur. The only question is... how fast ?

Our rights regarding firearms have been continuously encroached upon since Virgil Earp posted City Ordinance Number 9 in Tombstone on April 19 1881.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Our rights regarding firearms have been continuously encroached upon since Virgil Earp posted City Ordinance Number 9 in Tombstone on April 19 1881.

There is a very good argument to be made that gun rights have never been in a stronger position. From the founding of this nation until 2008, nobody understood the 2nd Amendment to refer to an individual right to firearms.
Having the 2nd Amendment incorporated against the states was a HUGE change.

 

[army_eod]

How about this?
Guns. Knives. Hammers. It does not matter. The govt has no place telling me what I can or cannot own.
That is the issue.

 

[Old Dog]

This kind of language is why you have a hard time connecting with guys like myself on the left.

At this point, I have little interest in connecting with anyone on the left, especially those who would attempt to assert some sort of moral superiority over those with whom they don't agree.

The Democrats who are agreeable with social programs don't like being called socialists because, they aren't socialists.

Hmm. Do we need to have separation between those Democrats who are agreeable with social programs, and those who do label themselves socialists. Just what is the difference? Is a review of the basic tenets of socialism called for here? For those that might be interested, scan McKelvey's piece on the principles of socialism:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/11/29/the-principles-of-socialism/

In fact, one of the guys who called himself a Democratic Socialist; Bernie Sanders (who isn't really a socialist), has been historically tepid on supporting gun legislation.

His reality is that he has to be, given what state he represents.

Support for gun legislation is low, even among actual Democratic politicians and their constituents, despite still being a part of the DNC platform with the usual assault weapons legislation, universal background checks, ending online sales, etc.

Do you also have a bridge that you'd like to sell me?

There is a very good argument to be made that gun rights have never been in a stronger position.

And there are even better arguments to be made that gun rights have never been in such a precarious position. Unless you would be telling us not to believe anything that any of the Democrats currently in office, or who are running for office, have been saying over and over, lo these past several years. Are they lying to us? Is Beto just being dramatic? Is Sleepy Joe simply throwing up a smokescreen to divert our attention from something else? Is Schumer simply a posturing, whimpering liar who has no intention of going through with his threats?

 

[DT Guy]

I think home CNC and rapid additive manufacturing moving into the home or individual garage is going to make future gun restrictions largely irrelevant; it's always been that the law-abiding are more affected by gun laws than criminals, but we're rapidly approaching a time when restrictions simply won't stop anyone who wants a semi-auto firearm or any type of magazine.

While this might not dissuade those who want to 'ban' things, it will be quickly blatantly obvious they're not impacting crime in any way.

Larry

 

[Old Dog]

I think home CNC and rapid additive manufacturing moving into the home or individual garage is going to make future gun restrictions largely irrelevant; it's always been that the law-abiding are more affected by gun laws than criminals, but we're rapidly approaching a time when restrictions simply won't stop anyone who wants a semi-auto firearm or any type of magazine.

They'll find something to ban ... and you'll have to show your driver license to purchase parts or download software for the at-home manufacturing materials (just like trying to buy Sudafed or large quantities of fertilizer containing ammonium nitrate} ...

While this might not dissuade those who want to 'ban' things, it will be quickly blatantly obvious they're not impacting crime in any way.

The impact on crime doesn't seem have been the real intent behind any of the bans. Even the legislators behind the '94 AWB admitted that, finally. Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist, but those who are would posit that it's all simply about control over the citizenry (and restricting their capabilities -- read, firearms -- to resist, if it ever came to that).

 

[Trunk Monkey]

They'll find something to ban ... and you'll have to show your driver license to purchase parts or download software for the at-home manufacturing materials

No they won't. They've already won the culture war. Once we're all old and dead they'll ask our grandkids (who have been indoctrinated by their anti RKBA teachers that guns are evil since kindergarten) to turn them all in and they will.

 

[GEM]

There is too much politics and various complaints about each party for our rules.

Closed.

 

[Old Dog]

Well, there's the long view. Frankly, I don't give them credit for thinking that far ahead. The other side wants to get their glory while they're still around to revel in it ... The liberals haven't had any figures that gave a thought to their legacies since the '60s.

But, your point is well taken. You are definitely on to something. Shame on us for letting our public schools turn into the current morass of political correctness, revisionist history and blind devotion to distorted concepts of inclusivity and diversity.