Steel case reloading !

[BADUNAME37]

OK, thank you for clarifying your intent.

I appreciate that and now I completely understand from where you are coming!

Thank you.

 

[Duce1]

EXACTLY, SDM!

Hey, if you see a lot of nice ones at the range, they may not be bad to have on hand just in case all else fails and it is the end of the world, and you need to load just one more batch!

And you finally come around to what I have been saying and doing all alone .

Have the experience and knowledge to do it in case it was needed .

Notice I stated way earlier that I have plenty of brass casing in 223 to reload I just wanted to know and have first hand experience in doing it if needed !

When push comes to shove I can say I know how and can show you .

 

[BADUNAME37]

OK, EXACTLY!

I'm sorry, that is the problem with these forums. Half the time we don't really know what the other person is talking about.

It's kind of one-dimensional as opposed to if we were sitting here chatting, that would have been all established at the beginning!

Now you have my wheels turning, next time I go to the range, spare .223 steel (I hope it has one primer hole)!

 

[jcwit]

With all I've popped in here about this, let me end for now with this.
Do I recommend reloading steel or alu. cases. No not really, theres plenty of brass available.
Is it possible. Yes

Now I shall bow out for awhile.

Still wonder what those plastic cases are tho.

 

[Duce1]

With all I've popped in here about this, let me end for now with this.
Do I recommend reloading steel or alu. cases. No not really, theres plenty of brass available.
Is it possible. Yes

Now I shall bow out for awhile.

Still wonder what those plastic cases are tho.

Thank you for chiming in and helping me and others get my point out that I failed to do in the beginning I guess .

Now I will go back to reloading " BRASS " casings in 223 that I have been working on almost all day and stopping in and posting as I get it and other things in my reloading room done .

Now if I can find some " cheap " FMJ 223 to buy and finish these up ?

Next we go to 45 ACP and then back to 308`s .

 

[BADUNAME37]

Thank you for chiming in and helping me and others get my point out that I failed to do in the beginning I guess .

Now I will go back to reloading " BRASS " casings in 223 that I have been working on almost all day and stopping in and posting as I get it and other things in my reloading room done .

Now if I can find some " cheap " FMJ 223 to buy and finish these up ?

Next we go to 45 ACP and then back to 308`s .

I hear ya!
Sometime we just may have to load steel cases at the rate the components are so scarce!

 

[Duce1]

Inspector I have no proof of anything I am about to say but !

I really think most ammo companies will soon turn to steel casings in there regular product line as a cost saver ? And hopefully they will pass on the savings to the customer ?

But brass casings will be a rare item if they do .

 

[ants]

Plastic cased practice ammo: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=476821




Duce, there is one detail regarding steel cases (at least in my mind). As we all know, metals tend to spring back slightly when formed in a die. All metals and alloys have their own unique spring-back characteristics. The resizing dies we use in reloading are made slightly undersized knowing that brass is the metal being formed, and it springs back in a predictable manner to meet standard dimensions for the cartridge. So our dies are specifically dimensioned for sizing brass. Since steel has a different spring-back characteristic, our dies may not do such a perfect job of sizing the case. I tried it myself and measured with inside and outside micrometers, and steel cases are slightly oversized after sizing. But they still work, just slightly oversize. If a reloader wanted to do thousands of steel cased reloads, he would probably get custom dies made for that metal.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Inspector I have no proof of anything I am about to say but !

I really think most ammo companies will soon turn to steel casings in there regular product line as a cost saver ? And hopefully they will pass on the savings to the customer ?

But brass casings will be a rare item if they do .

I hope you are not right, but the way things look, I'm AFRAID you are right, my friend.
I don't see this "shortage" of components going away soon I'm afraid.

I hope I'm all wrong and I hope it comes around like the way it was a year or two ago!

 

[BADUNAME37]

Plastic cased practice ammo: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=476821




Duce, there is one detail regarding steel cases (at least in my mind). As we all know, metals tend to spring back slightly when formed in a die. All metals and alloys have their own unique spring-back characteristics. The resizing dies we use in reloading are made slightly undersized knowing that brass is the metal being formed, and it springs back in a predictable manner to meet standard dimensions for the cartridge. So our dies are specifically dimensioned for sizing brass. Since steel has a different spring-back characteristic, our dies may not do such a perfect job of sizing the case. I tried it myself and measured with inside and outside micrometers, and steel cases are slightly oversized after sizing. But they still work, just slightly oversize. If a reloader wanted to do thousands of steel cased reloads, he would probably get custom dies made for that metal.

Excellent point, ants!

 

[ants]

For those concerned about obduration (expanding to seal the chamber), I have never seen spent steel cases burned or stained on the outside by hot gases due to insufficient sealing. On another web site (I'll see if I can find it for you) they checked the hardness of steel cases, and found that the steel alloy is very, very soft. Just like brass. So it seals the chamber as required.

I'll see if I can find that URL for you.

 

[Duce1]

Plastic cased practice ammo: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=476821




Duce, there is one detail regarding steel cases (at least in my mind). As we all know, metals tend to spring back slightly when formed in a die. All metals and alloys have their own unique spring-back characteristics. The resizing dies we use in reloading are made slightly undersized knowing that brass is the metal being formed, and it springs back in a predictable manner to meet standard dimensions for the cartridge. So our dies are specifically dimensioned for sizing brass. Since steel has a different spring-back characteristic, our dies may not do such a perfect job of sizing the case. I tried it myself and measured with inside and outside micrometers, and steel cases are slightly oversized after sizing. But they still work, just slightly oversize. If a reloader wanted to do thousands of steel cased reloads, he would probably get custom dies made for that metal.

I am sure you are correct in your measurements and I would agree . I have not intent to strictly reload steel casings so a investment in special dies would most likely be a waste for me .

This has been done for me to learn and understand what was all involved with working with steel casings .

I have probable done it to 500 casings over the past 8 or 9 months ( I real do not know how many I have done I am just guessing ) as a true measurement in my mind as to how piratical it would be to do if a " have to case " and it was all I had would work . And it has satisfied my mind that in all practicality I could do it for a good amount of time if I needed to depend on it to work .

 

[sonier]

on the size of my bullets im pulling they are .3105 im resizing them to .308. that has nothing to do about steel casing so dont bring it up again.

Back to steel casing the rumor flying around is lack of seal around the chamber and cartridge. we get it, and far as overpressure cause damages well it does. but duce isnt loading high pressures.
if your wrried about gas blowback use a bolt action rifle, i can see that maybe a semiauto would be more dangerous.

 

[BADUNAME37]

For those concerned about obduration (expanding to seal the chamber), I have never seen spent steel cases burned or stained on the outside by hot gases due to insufficient sealing. On another web site (I'll see if I can find it for you) they checked the hardness of steel cases, and found that the steel alloy is very, very soft. Just like brass. So it seals the chamber as required.

I'll see if I can find that URL for you.

Another excellent point, no signs of gas blow-by within the chamber as signs on the outsides of the cases!

Good point!

 

[bullseye308]

I have loaded steel only in 223 and 45 so far. I have only loaded about 50 45's 4 times so far with no problems as of yet. Like I have said before, don't load hot and if you keep it in the middle, you should be fine if you decide to try it yourself. The 223 I loaded and tried lasted 4 loadings before problems started showing up. Now that I know it can be safely done at least 3 times(per my limited testing), I now only load them once and put them away for a rainy day.

Another thing not mentioned is that not all of us can afford to buy all that plentiful brass that some of you claim is all over the place. Some of us don't make it to a range to pick any up either. Where I shoot there is wolf all over along with .22 shells and that is it. I also have enough brass on hand for myself, but it won't last forever and unless I can be sure of getting more real cheap or free, I will look into whatever alternatives are around.

Look at it kinda like this: I have a friend that won't cast bullets because he is sure he will get lead poisoning and most likely burn the crap out of himself. He doesn't believe it is safe for him to do it. I believe him. He shouldn't be doing it if he doesn't think it is safe. Kinda like loading brass. Noone is telling anyone to load it and scrap your brass, just that it can be done within certain limits and you may at some time need to know this.

 

[snuffy]

Still wonder what those plastic cases are tho.

These?





PCA spectrum were made to reduce weight allowing a soldier to carry more ammo. The plastic was cast around the bullet, then the powder poured in then the primed brass base was snapped on. It was not supposed to be reloaded, but you COULD do it. The problem was bullet pull/grip, there was none! The neck would not size down. Besides it shot lousy, as far as good groups! I heard they made some .308 and were going to try magnum handgun as well. They went broke a couple of years ago.

Looks like the plastic would melt, right? Apparently not. Even after a mag of rapid fire to heat the barrel, then one left in for a minute. Some tough, high temp, plastic.

As far as the reloading steel goes, why not? As far as harming dies goes, dies are heat treated high carbon steel. Very hard. The steel cases are soft mild steel. Problem is it work hardens when being fired then reformed via sizing. Duce1 says he's only doing it once, then leaving it lay, no problemo I say. Might even give it a try myself, sounds interesting.

 

[jcwit]

Yup thats the stuff.

 

[Duce1]

WOW ! Did not know that stuff was once on the market !

I have seen military blank ammo out there that looks exactly the same but without the bullet . I kind of thought that was what he had seen !

 

[Sport45]

that has nothing to do about steel casing so dont bring it up again.

Why are you scolding us? You took this off topic when you interjected with your "recycling components from 7.62x39" topic.

i got a good idea, ill change subject lol. What tools do i need to deprime these 7.62x39, i dont shoot that cartridge so i am salvaging all i can. (emphasis added)

We were just pointing out that those primers and bullets can't easily be used in other cartridges.

As far as shooting steel case reloads in a bolt gun vs a semi, I'm not sure it would make much difference. My AR's and M1 have locking lugs and the bolt is just as secure as a bolt action. I've never seen the insides of an AK but assume it uses locking lugs too. None of them do a good job of sealing the chamber without the casing in place.

 

[ants]

Good thread.

Duce1, I think it's a good experiment. And a good thing to store in the back of the head, just in case it is necessary some day.

Using steel cases isn't a casual thing to do, one must be aware of the materials and adjust procedure accordingly. For instance, it would be wise to measure interior case volume compared to brass, and make powder adjustments as necessary. Same with primer pocket and neck tension. Since common knowledge and loading data for these adjustments are not published, one must be very very careful.

Many reloaders (especially the inexperienced) may not have the knowledge or skill or experience to do that, and that is where the danger enters the picture. Clearly steel works as a case material, so the shortcoming is in the reloader rather than the material.

Those who assert that most steel cases can be reloaded safely are telling the truth.

And those who assert that reloading steel cases is potentially dangerous for most reloaders are also telling the truth.

 

[Duce1]

Duce1, I think it's a good experiment. And a good thing to store in the back of the head, just in case it is necessary some day.

Using steel cases isn't a casual thing to do, one must be aware of the materials and adjust procedure accordingly. For instance, it would be wise to measure interior case volume compared to brass, and make powder adjustments as necessary. Same with primer pocket and neck tension. Since common knowledge and loading data for these adjustments are not published, one must be very very careful.

Many reloaders (especially the inexperienced) may not have the knowledge or skill or experience to do that, and that is where the danger enters the picture. Clearly steel works as a case material, so the shortcoming is in the reloader rather than the material.

Those who assert that most steel cases can be reloaded safely are telling the truth.

And those who assert that reloading steel cases is potentially dangerous for most reloaders are also telling the truth.

I could not agree more .

I have followed your words and checked out what I was doing ahead of time .

Volume , primer pockets sizes ( I am a tool and die person and have access to the tools to do as needed ) . I even have checked a few in electrolight checking for cracks .

I do not take reloading lightly and think I have a good handle when to stop before I or someone else gets hurt .

I personally have done it to just know and keep in mind it can be done and if needed I can do it .

I prefer brass casings and stay with them but I can if needed do it with steel was all I have been checking into .

 

[Johnny Guest]

. . . AND, that's a good place to close this thread.

It is fitting that the original poster wrote the last entry on the thread.

l'm a bit miffed that there's been so much acrimony in this thread. The OP started out with a generally informative premise and went to share his findings with the rest of us. Perhaps he was a bit too anticipatory that he would be attacked, but, as it turns out, he was entirely correct!

It is quite easy to observe that reloading steel cases is really not worthwhile, at a time when there is an abundance of good, cheap, brass empties available. It is also a good thing to point out the possible hazards of reloading steel unless certain precautions are taken. It is NOT a good thing to mock or attack those who choose to experiment with utilizing non-standard components. If you don't want to try something different, fine. Just don't undertake an attack on those who seek alternative methods. It has been proven repeatedly that it IS possible to safely reload steel cases, provided certain precautions are observed. The [CURRENT] practicality may be called into question, but it is well to recall that there MAY come a time when brass is not so readily available.

I thought of deleting all those posts that gratutiously attacked the mere concept mentioned in this thread. I have chosen to leave them in place, as an object lesson on how SILLY such blithering appears a few days or weeks later. Please remember - - If you have something to contribute to a discussion -- Something ON TOPIC -- go for it. If you just want to nit pick, insert some thread veer, or attempt to antagonize those engaged in discussion, --- Well, we're all better off without wending our way through your unintelligent space-wasting.

For those who did post contributory material, who asked on-point questions, and who put forth considerations not previously mentioned, THANK YOU. It is such give-and-take that makes a technical forum truly worthwhile.

If there's additional, CONTRIBUTORY, discussion to be had on this topic, someone can strart a new thread. For now, though, this one is - -

CLOSED.

Johnny Guest
THR Staff
Handloading and Reloading Forum