Steel cased ammo damages your extractor: myth or reality?
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xxjumbojimboxx
Member
Ive shot well over 10000 rds of steel through my ruger sr9c, nothing crazy as far as wear on the extractor... but maybe 10000 is not enough.
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
Hm.
Yeah I've never really inspected the extractors on any of my aks. But you know thay ruger wasnt designed with steel in mind.
Yeah I've never really inspected the extractors on any of my aks. But you know thay ruger wasnt designed with steel in mind.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
By the time you've worn out your extractor with steel cased ammo, you'll have paid FAR more than the gun is worth to buy that ammo.
In other words, do not sweat it.
The soft steel used in those cartridges cases is harder than brass, but not as hard as your extractor. It isn't going to accelerate wear to a degree you or I could measure.
In other words, do not sweat it.
The soft steel used in those cartridges cases is harder than brass, but not as hard as your extractor. It isn't going to accelerate wear to a degree you or I could measure.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have broken exactly two 1911 extractors in about 50 years, including a stint on an Army AMU match shooting team.
Both extractors I broke were while shooting surplus WWII steel case .45 ACP ammo in the 1960's.
That's enough proof for me.
Not to mention Jeff Cooper his-self mentioned oiling his steel case .45 ammo in WWII in order to prevent broken extractors in combat.
rc
Both extractors I broke were while shooting surplus WWII steel case .45 ACP ammo in the 1960's.
That's enough proof for me.
Not to mention Jeff Cooper his-self mentioned oiling his steel case .45 ammo in WWII in order to prevent broken extractors in combat.
rc
I have posted on countless threads over the years, posting about the 10s of thousands of rounds of steel case ammo I have fired with no problem what-so-ever.
However, within the last month or so, someone posted a link to a test run by a group of people, I think they were in Arizona, doing a torture test of AR15s running three different brands of ammo. It was very professionally done and had very high resolution pictures of the various parts of the guns during and after the tests.
This caused me to totally change my mind about steel cased ammo. It was obvious that the steel cases caused FAR more wear than brass cased ammo, and bi-metal bullets caused FAR more damage to the barrels than a copper jacket.
Someone will probably post a link to that test.
And I am man enough to admit that I have been wrong for 10+ years.
However, within the last month or so, someone posted a link to a test run by a group of people, I think they were in Arizona, doing a torture test of AR15s running three different brands of ammo. It was very professionally done and had very high resolution pictures of the various parts of the guns during and after the tests.
This caused me to totally change my mind about steel cased ammo. It was obvious that the steel cases caused FAR more wear than brass cased ammo, and bi-metal bullets caused FAR more damage to the barrels than a copper jacket.
Someone will probably post a link to that test.
And I am man enough to admit that I have been wrong for 10+ years.
22250Rem
Member
I've heard of Glocks that have been through thousands of rounds of steel cased 9mm with no problems. I was thinking about it when I bought a new 9mm G19 in Feb. '12. I've put both brass and steel case stuff through it but last fall purchased a couple thousand rounds of steel cased stuff before the ammo situation got crazy. Still planning on reloading 9mm someday besides all the other stuff I already reload. But it looks like I'm gonna see how the G19 holds up with steel case stuff 'cause I have so much of it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Pick up a spare extractor. It's like a magic talisman -- if you carry it with you, the one in your gun will NEVER break! 
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
Hah, so right sam, so right.Pick up a spare extractor. It's like a magic talisman -- if you carry it with you, the one in your gun will NEVER break!
BCRider
Member
rcmodel said:
That suggests to me that the real issue isn't that the steel to steel contact that is hard on the extractor. But rather that the steel casings would stick in the chamber for some reason which ends up being hard on the extractor.
Edarnold
Member
Also depends on the coating applied to the case. The brown lacquer is sticky stuff that melts onto the chamber when hot; the brass and zinc plated cases should be better. The best coating should be the grey baked enamel, which if it follows the original German WW2 method is actually slippery due a wax added as the last step in the application. So just because the case is steel doesn't really tell much about how much stress it's going to create on extraction. Also, I don't think a test of 5.56 ammo says much about the performance of pistol ammunition: pistol cases are much shorter and tapered, and operate at half the pressure or less, so are bound to have less drag whether in brass or steel.
IMHO
IMHO
TreeDoc
Member
myth
DeepSouth
Random Guy
Myth or reality it doesn't matter to me, extractors are cheap.
That said I don't shoot them in my carry gun, I generally shoot what I carry in it.
That said I don't shoot them in my carry gun, I generally shoot what I carry in it.
wally
Member
And the extractor on my Colt 1911 broke after about 8000 rounds of nothing but brass cased ammo. Don't prove a thing!
I've had steel cased ammo expose out of spec extractors on ARs -- they were fine with brass cased ammo, but frequently stovepiped with steel cases, installing a properly made extractor cured the problem. I haven't shot brass cased 5.56 or 7.62x39 ammo in almost ten years except for the rare situations where I was trying to shoot small groups off sandbags. We run high volumes 200-300 rounds per gun per outing shooting steel plates, the guns often get too hot to hold comfortably without gloves in our 95+ summer heat.
Ain't much of a gun if using steel cased ammo breaks it!
mrgoodwrench
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444 if you or some one else could link to that test your talking about i would be really interested in reading it thanks
mrgoodwrench
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im still up in the air and deciding what to think of steel cased ammo
mrgoodwrench
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The steel jacketed bullets vs copper is harder on the barrel. powders are dirtier. And yes the cases don't expand as well sealing the chamber. And I have herd that using brass after steel without cleaning can cause brass to stick on the residue left in the chamber left from the steel not sealing too. Because the brass expands and can catch on the carbon build up from the steel not sealing
sent from my mind using telepathy
sent from my mind using telepathy
I think the extra friction between a steel case and a steel chamber could wear out an extractor faster than the use of a brass case.
It would depend on the case, case taper, pressure drop, and action type.
The Hispano-Oerlikon was a blow back cannon, used by the Navy from WW2 all the way through Vietnam. The WW2 era cannons required greased ammunition, post war an automatic oiler was added, to function or it would rip the case in half. You can imagine that given enough extraction difficulty the extractor would give out, assuming the ship was not sunk before then by a Kamikaze.
You can see at exactly 2:14 on this WW2 video a Sailor’s hand painting grease on the 20 mm ammunition loading machine for the Oerlikon anti aircraft machine guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=9dR3h2HdnBQ
Figure from The Machine Gun Vol V page 358
This 1943 Pamphlet gives me the idea that broken extractors could happen if the grease coating was insufficient.
http://hnsa.org/doc/gun20mm/part4.htm
Often I put a drop of oil on steel case ammunition and roll them around before loading them in my magazines. It improves function and reduces wear.
It would depend on the case, case taper, pressure drop, and action type.
The Hispano-Oerlikon was a blow back cannon, used by the Navy from WW2 all the way through Vietnam. The WW2 era cannons required greased ammunition, post war an automatic oiler was added, to function or it would rip the case in half. You can imagine that given enough extraction difficulty the extractor would give out, assuming the ship was not sunk before then by a Kamikaze.
You can see at exactly 2:14 on this WW2 video a Sailor’s hand painting grease on the 20 mm ammunition loading machine for the Oerlikon anti aircraft machine guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=9dR3h2HdnBQ
Figure from The Machine Gun Vol V page 358
This 1943 Pamphlet gives me the idea that broken extractors could happen if the grease coating was insufficient.
http://hnsa.org/doc/gun20mm/part4.htm
.
Often I put a drop of oil on steel case ammunition and roll them around before loading them in my magazines. It improves function and reduces wear.
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Look at his background he received degree from Stanford before service in Marine Corps. Americans sent university graduates into trenches during WWII? That was in days when college degree wasn't like high school diploma.
Yes, College Graduates were sent into combat. In WW2 if you were in College, you were in the service and once you hit two years, the Army and the Marine Corp pulled you out of College and sent you on your way to combat. The Navy allowed students to complete a four year degree and then you were sent to midshipmen school before going into combat.
Communist block guns were designed, as were the cartridges, to use steel case ammunition. Steel cases were not a concern in either the 223 or AR15 design and malfunctions occur all the time with steel case ammunition in AR's.
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