Steel Cases=FTE & Jamming?

[bmph8ter]

Hey all! I just bought a new Bersa Thunder 9UC yesterday and split a case of 1000 rounds with a friend. Just some cheap Brown Bear (steel cased) that they had at the gun show. Took my new pistol out of the box (should have cleaned it first) and decided to run 100 rounds though it.

The first box of 50 ran without a hitch. Near the end of the second, however I had a couple FTEs including 1 case that I thought I was going to have to pry out with a screwdriver it was stuck so hard.

So then, I see the following posts @ BersaChat:

The biggest issue with steel cased ammo and Bersa is with the T380's. It misfeeds a lot, when it does it usually sticks the nose of the bullet against the roof of the chamber then the slide below the firing pin hits the round and on the steel case it peens the breechface. The 9mm usually doesn't have that problem, but I still wouldn't feed it a regular diet of steel.

and

On the Old Bersa Talk Forum there was a fellow who put a case of steel cased ammo through a Thunder 9 that had previously ran flawlessly, but by the time he got through that case, it was jamming all the time, and he never could get it to run reliably after that. He eventually traded the gun away. So I wouldn't use it in a Bersa of any kind. The warranty gunsmith over there told us repeatedly to never use Wolf ammo or any steel cased ammo in our Bersa firearms. He didn't tell us it would void our warranty, he just practically begged us no to use it.

So I guess my question is could the steel really be bad on my gun? Or were the jams just because I had gone shooting before cleaning it? It wasn't even especially dirty once I got home so I'm not certain that was it.

 

[mustang_steve]

It should'nt be bad....the misfeed mentioned in your post about the other bersa's sound like an issue with overall length or a bad feed ramp.

Steel casings have been around for a while, and used sucessfully in blowback and locked breech configurations for decades. just clean your pistol thoroughly and look for any damage.

edit: also check the barrel for fused jackets, if the pistol is new, and the rifling lands are coarse, they may take a piece of jacket off, this will impede the bullet and create a condition where the casingsa may "crimp" themselves inside the chamber due to excessive pressure. I had a pistol that did this...until I ran some polishing compound down the barrel.

 

[Shadow 7D]

the cases react differently than brass, I believe the description is less elastic, in that they expand, but don't retract as much, BUT most guns run it fine, if it's old, or if your gun was dirty, esp. if both, you get 'sticky chamber syndrome' where the old steel case lacquer melt and bond with the carbon, sticking the spent case in the chamber.



Also, sticking cases are a sign of a tight chamber, and you arn't going to change that unless you are a gunsmith, or do alot of your own gun smithing, don't want to mess with it really.

Or a dirty gun, might be amazing what some cleaning and lube does

Or a 'ruff' chamber where you have concentric mill marks inside the chamber that act to grab and retain the case. The solution is to make a roll of 400 grt+ sand paper and lightly burnish (lightly sand until near polished) the chamber forwards and back (the way the round moves) to remove any milling marks, and then if you feel like it polish the chamber.
This is time intensive, there is other brass based ammo that is as cheap or almost as cheap, if your gun won't run it, this also works for removing 'cooked' lacquer if that's the problem.

 

[stickhauler]

Steel cased ammo often has lacquer on it as well, that builds up in the chamber over time. For the slight extra cost of brass cased ammo over steel cased ammo for a 9 mm, I'd have to ask if the savings made up for the aggravation of poorly feeding and ejecting ammo.

The only guns I run any steel cased stuff in are my Commie Bloc guns, the chambers are made loose enough that there is near never an issue shooting it.

 

[nalioth]

Why don't you run some brass through your "brand new gun" before you condemn the steel cases?

 

[writerinmo]

Why don't you clean your brand new gun before even shooting it? Most times they are shipped with a lot heavier lube than you should use as a normal use since it is intended to protect and preserve it while it sits on a shelf for who knows how long? You probably just have too much 'gunk' in the chamber, clean it real well and try it again. I've shot a lot of steel cased ammo in various calibers with no problems.

 

[bmph8ter]

nalioth: I'm actually not condemning steel cased ammo; I'm asking if it really could be bad for my gun like some others had said or if the jamming could have been just because I hadn't scrubbed the pistol yet.
writerinmo: I didn't clean it because honestly, it didn't look dirty and I was excited to go shoot it. I have since cleaned it good, and no marks in the chamber I can see. I've already picked up a few boxes of brass cased Federal; hopefully I can try that this week. Although I'm kinda curious to try some more of the steel now that the gun is clean. Just not sure I'll get the chance or not.

 

[writerinmo]

I'd shoot a few hundred rounds of brass through it to get it broken in well, then maybe try some. If there is a Cabelas near you they currently have Sellier and Bellot 9mm on sale with their coupon (they have them at the checkout) for $8.99 a box.

 

[nalioth]

Steel cased ammo is produced to international specifications.

If it was bad for guns, they wouldn't sell it.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Grab as much of that S&B as you can, it is quality, better than any American ammo in the price range.

 

[Average Joe]

Some ammo is funny. I had Brown Bear that shot just fine in all my pistols, then the next shipment was just the opposite, jams and FTE, My advice would be to sample a bunch of different ammo, and see what your gun likes.

 

[dogtown tom]

Shadow 7D: ...if both, you get 'sticky chamber syndrome' where the old steel case lacquer melt and bond with the carbon...

stickhauler: ...Steel cased ammo often has lacquer on it as well, that builds up in the chamber over time...

"Lacquer buildup" is a myth or at the very least misplaced blame. Take a steel cartridge case and with an open flame try to melt the lacquer off of a spent case. It doesn't happen.

Few manufacturers use old fashioned lacquer, instead they use newfangled "polymer" coatings.

The real cause of FTE problems with steel cartridge cases is the use of steel cartridge cases. Steel, being less flexible than brass, tends to not expand and seal the chamber near the case mouth as effectively as brass. Carbon that builds up in front of the case mouth on a brass case will often build up behind the case mouth on a steel case- resulting in difficult or "sticky" extractions.

It is this buildup of carbon that is the symptom of using steel cases. If you remove the lacquer or polymer coating from a steel case you will continue to have extraction problems.......because steel does not expand as well as brass. The lacquer or polymer has nothing to do with it.

Clean your chamber and you will not have problems. I run cheap Wolf through AR's, Glock, Kahr's, Hi Powers with ZERO problems. But I do make sure the chambers are free of carbon buildup.

 

[Yarddog]

Take a look at your extractor make sure it's not chipped ; )
Y/D

 

[Onward Allusion]

Steel cases = jamming if the chamber is tight and HOT. I have FTE's after about the 4th mag in my 5946. It takes about few of dozen mags with brass cases before FTE's start happening. Talked to my 'smith about it and he says that it's the susceptibility of steel cases to heat. Steel cases should not be too much harder on extractors. The Bear stuff has a softer outside (bi-metal). Besides, it's only an extractor.

bmph8ter
Steel Cases=FTE & Jamming?

 

[smince]

I shoot steel-cased ammo all the time without any problems.

Of course, I shoot Glock, AK, SKS...

 

[Snowdog]

Take a steel cartridge case and with an open flame try to melt the lacquer off of a spent case.

Sure, take the fun out of it. You probably don't run with scissors either. How square.

Seriously, the UC9 has an excellent reputation for reliability. I would give it a good cleaning, paying close attention to the chamber. Using some nitro solvent and brush would be a good idea for reasons Dogtown Tom mentioned.
Afterwords, give some decent brass-cased ammunition a try.

 

[dogtown tom]

Snowdog: ...Using some nitro solvent and brush would be a good idea...

Real men chuck a bronze brush into their 1/2" Black & Decker and let 'er rip.



Who needs solvent?

 

[Shadow 7D]

uM, Dogtown, most cases now are Poly coated, supposedly less likely to melt, and please read the START of my post where I explained that STEEL is

I believe the description is less elastic, in that they expand, but don't retract as much

Try the ammo in other guns, try other ammo in your gun, find out what works, this is half the fun of a new gun...

 

[GLOOB]

Steel cases get the chamber dirtier, faster, because they don't expand as much. But coated steel cases may extract better out of a dirty chamber for the same reason. The real test on your gun would be to first shoot a couple hundred rounds of steel cased ammo. Then switch to brass, without cleaning the chambers.

 

[MICHAEL T]

A Bersa must be cleaned before shooting They are shipped by sea and have all kind of rust preventives. That must be clean off . Shooting with this stuff does nothing for reliability .
Most the Warranty Centers don't recommended shooting the steel case ammo .
I shoot a lot of S&B in my Bersa and other pistols and never been a problem .

If you a Bersa owner then http://bersachat.com should be on your list.