Steel Pot, Protective Value

[armoredman]

I'll have to see about getting one of those Brits.

 

[BigFatKen]

stops rocks

I was sliding downhill in a rock slide one time in RVN. I must have been knocked out. As I came to, I saw that I was looking at my 4.9 pound helmet. It had a big dent in it. I thought "I'd better put that on". It saved my life.

 

[Lucky]

As I understand it the British and Israeli helmets are similar, look similar, and are both weak ballistically too. IIRC the Germans are or did or will switch helmets, so theirs might be better quality, while the PASGT can at least take a .45 at conversation distances.

PASGT helmets on Ebay for good prices iirc.

 

[Red Dragon]

Steel pots don't provide much protection from bullets. Several years back, Nightcrawler and I went shooting and decided to set his steel pot on a target post and take a couple of shots at it. The bullets ripped through the helmet like a BB through an aluminium can. Left a hell of an exit hole too. Lots of sharp edges.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

It'd be better than nothing, but in any case, good luck!

 

[loose cannon]

i think id go for the kev pasgt lid.i do like the lobster pot rig though,is it japanese????

 

[c_yeager]

I think that for general emergency use you would be far better off with a sports-oriented helmet. You are a lot more likely to bang your head on debris and overhanging objects than you are to catch a bullet. An actual modern helmet would also fit a lot better, it would not restrict your vision, and it would be a heck of a lot lighter. When it comes down to it they probably would be about equal when it comes to stopping a bullet as both of them would be readily perferated by virtually anything fired at you from a reasonable distance.

To give some perspective I recall that one of the tests for our newer .223 round is that it be able to punch through *both* sides of a current issue kevlar helmet at 600 yards. I bet you could make swiss cheese out of that thing with a pistol at 20 yards.

 

[Moples]

Cool lobstertail helm. I wasn't too sure where it came from either, but I've heard of the term Zischagge, so I looked it up. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/ufarm/hod_14.25.611.htm

 

[odysseus]

To give some perspective I recall that one of the tests for our newer .223 round is that it be able to punch through *both* sides of a current issue kevlar helmet at 600 yards. I bet you could make swiss cheese out of that thing with a pistol at 20 yards.

That's interesting, so what good is the current kevlar helmets to soldiers then since most anything shot at them will be from a rifle? Just good for explosive frag hits?

LEO uses them too, but I guess it's for something better than nothing at all.

 

[jefnvk]

That's interesting, so what good is the current kevlar helmets to soldiers then since most anything shot at them will be from a rifle? Just good for explosive frag hits?

LEO uses them too, but I guess it's for something better than nothing at all.

My guess would be debris/frag. I think there would be quite a bit of flying objects in a combat zone, and getting knocked out by a flying rock is not somethign I am looking forward to.

 

[jobu07]

I bet they'd stop a ricochette halfway decently too.

 

[Roadkill]

One saved my butt. We got mortared in a firebase (Dautieng), I ran around a bunker to get inside, someone had left a 2x4 sticking out off the bunker top, I hit it wide open across my forehead. A mortar hit on the other side of the bunker right when I hit the 2x4, my feet went straight up in the air, I landed on my back, knocked the breath out of me, had no doubt I'd been hit. The front edge of the helmet broke the bridge of my nose and gave me a black eye. My tank commander threw one at a NVA but missed him.


rk

 

[scotjute]

I've got a Swede steel helmet bought from a surplus place. Its hard to imagine actually wearing it while moving across country or some-such. How "comfortable" would these things be after wearing them on all day on a cross-country trek? Seems like your head would get mighty hot in hot Texas sun with that thing on.

 

[Manedwolf]

I picked up a used USGI PASGT helmet at a gun show, with a woodland camo cover, for about $40 a few months ago. With the MICH helmet being used more and more often, or upgrades to the more heavily armored PASGT helmets getting around, the standard PASGT is going to become more available.

There are also German and British kevlar helmets out there in the milsurp industry to be had for under $100.

I've been leery of buying anything used that could have come back from Iraq, especially if it's cheap. A local surplus store I buy a lot from rejected a palette of BDUs and helmets recently. Because the owner had been over there in '91, he had a habit of pointing an old CD Geiger counter at things he was thinking of buying.

These were hot. Unhealthily so. Contaminated with DU dust, apparently.

 

[Manedwolf]

I think that for general emergency use you would be far better off with a sports-oriented helmet. You are a lot more likely to bang your head on debris and overhanging objects than you are to catch a bullet. An actual modern helmet would also fit a lot better, it would not restrict your vision, and it would be a heck of a lot lighter. When it comes down to it they probably would be about equal when it comes to stopping a bullet as both of them would be readily perferated by virtually anything fired at you from a reasonable distance.

To give some perspective I recall that one of the tests for our newer .223 round is that it be able to punch through *both* sides of a current issue kevlar helmet at 600 yards. I bet you could make swiss cheese out of that thing with a pistol at 20 yards.

I'd say something with a flip-down face shield, if you're talking about things like hurricanes. If you have to move around in an area where a window might turn into flying glass shards unexpectedly, it's better not to catch them with your face and eyes.

 

[armoredman]

I've been leery of buying anything used that could have come back from Iraq, especially if it's cheap. A local surplus store I buy a lot from rejected a palette of BDUs and helmets recently. Because the owner had been over there in '91, he had a habit of pointing an old CD Geiger counter at things he was thinking of buying.

These were hot. Unhealthily so. Contaminated with DU dust, apparently.

Interesting - has anyone else heard of this? Since those of us who buy cheaply, (read, poor), get surplus, what is the easy way to check for stuff like this, or how much should we worry, if at all?

 

[c_yeager]

I'd say something with a flip-down face shield, if you're talking about things like hurricanes. If you have to move around in an area where a window might turn into flying glass shards unexpectedly, it's better not to catch them with your face and eyes.

You know, a modular (flip-up) motorcycle helmet would be perfect for that particular application.

 

[History Nut]

Helmets

You know, a modular (flip-up) motorcycle helmet would be perfect for that particular application.

I agree. Also consider surplus firefighter helmets with face shield. If you add the nomex brush hood that protects the nape of the neck, you could prevent quite a few minor injuries. No protection worth mentioning from bullets, but will help against wind-blown debris or thrown rocks and bottles. They also work well when walking into low beams in the dark (ask me how I know!). Due to the compression of the spine, one is dazed for a few seconds but not having a large head laceration bleeding profusely made the helmet worth the 'discomfort' of wearing it!

 

[Gifted]

The helmet I wore on an early March night in 1969 was penetrated by shrapnel fragments first by a "chi-com" grenade, and later that night by fragments from an RPG that detonated a few feet behind me.
I have no doubt that the helmet slowed the shrapnel enough to keep it from penetrating my skull, but the fact is it went through the steel pot.

if we're talkign about the same helmet, that might be why later they made kevlar linings. Blew my mind when I got a steel pot at Holloman. AMXS might still have it. I was told it was still good, and some people said that some guys preferred the older steel helmet. About the only benefit I could think of is that it would easily second as a cooking pot, if properly cared for. The lining would keep the inside clean, you just have to get the paint out of the inside.

I was also told that in a real life situation, I should leave the chin strap unhooked, as a close grenade hit would send the helmet flying, and my head with it. Still don't know what to think of that.

 

[AFhack]

Gifted: I can guarantee you AMXS at Holloman doesn't have it anymore - we had to turn in all the remaining steel ones last year

 

[yonderway]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=109994 $29.97 for British Kevlar helmets

That is a phenomenal price for kevlar. The british helmet looks to have a better suspension than the US PASGT, and probably better mobility (try shooting from prone in a PASGT with level III gear on sometime and you'll know what I'm talking about)

 

[yonderway]

One saved my butt. We got mortared in a firebase (Dautieng), I ran around a bunker to get inside, someone had left a 2x4 sticking out off the bunker top, I hit it wide open across my forehead. A mortar hit on the other side of the bunker right when I hit the 2x4, my feet went straight up in the air, I landed on my back, knocked the breath out of me, had no doubt I'd been hit. The front edge of the helmet broke the bridge of my nose and gave me a black eye. My tank commander threw one at a NVA but missed him.

I almost shot H2O out my nose. Almost.

 

[Trebor]

To give some perspective I recall that one of the tests for our newer .223 round is that it be able to punch through *both* sides of a current issue kevlar helmet at 600 yards. I bet you could make swiss cheese out of that thing with a pistol at 20 yards.

I know the requirement for the 62 gr 5.56 round was that it be able to penetrate a STEEL helment at 600 yards. I have not heard of any requirement that 5.56 pass through a Kevlar helment.

 

[Rob62]

Back when I was in the Army I did some testing on both the USGI Kevlar helmet and the older issue Steel Pot with helmet liner and camo cover

I worked on a US weapons range and had a lot of flexibility on what I did - one of the best jobs of my entire life. Shooting guns and blowing stuff up on Uncle Sugar's dime

Anyway the tests consisted of shooting both helmets with various small arms and at distances from 25 to 50 meters.

The end results were almost everything went through the steel pot. Cartridges used were 9mm, .45ACP, 5.56 both the 55 and 62 grain bullets, 7.62mm NATO and 7.63x39.

Test conditions. Helmets were placed on posts and hung free. This allowed them to move around when hit. It would have been better if we could have fixed them in place so that they would not move easily but that was not an option. Weather warm and clear. All shots were designed to be perpendicular to a side or front/rear of the helmet.

At 25 meters everything penetrated the steel pot! The Kevlar helmet was penetrated by everything but the .45ACP. The 45 bullet did crack the shell and the bullet was sticking in the Kevlar pocking into the inside. (Another 200FPS MV and I bet it would have gone all the way through )

At 50 meters the 45 ACP glanced off of the side of the steel pot. Not sure but suspect it was due to the angle of the shot. It sure made a good dent though. 9mm went through and all other cartridges went through.
The Kevlar was not shot with the 45 at this range due to what happened at 25M. All other cartridges went through.

Last test was at about 75 meters. Helmets were pretty shot up by now. No pistol ammo was shot at any helmets. All rifle cartridges penetrated the Steel Pot minus the 7.62x39 - again I think it was the angle of hit that did not allow penetration. Kevlar Helmet - the 7.62x39 "barely" penetrated the helmet. The bullet was sticking out on the inside. Both other rifle cartridges penetrated the helmet.

The SS109 was the most impressive. We not only shot it into the helmets but into a variety of other media as well. It did a great job of penetrating everything we shot it at. Primarily cinder blocks, sand/dirt filled ammo cans, and assorted plate steel.

I never wrote these tests down so am going off of memory of what happened quite a while ago.

If someone is serious about protecting their noggin' I can highly recommend the "Pro Tech" style helmets. They are not designed for ballistic protection. Only to protect the brain safe from lumps and bumps. The even come in TactiCool colors such as ninja black. If I long ago sold my helmets and if a SHTF scenario ever occurs I'm not too worried about not having one. Helmets like the steel pot or Kevlar have to many negatives going for them IMO. The main one being they are uncomfortable as hell and I'm just plain tired of wearing 'em.

HTH,

Rob

 

[Mauserguy]

Wow. There are some interesting stories out there. I guess that I will relegate the steel pot to a curiosity, a historical novelty, but if the black helicopters begin shooting HP, I will break it out for good measure. Interesting...
Mauserguy