Steyr Odd-o-Loaders

[barnbwt]

I've got a thing for unique, interesting, and forgotten mechanical designs, so I'd like to acquire one of the less common autoloaders for my collection. Purely a range toy and curiosity, so size and practicality (and to a certain extent, ammo availability) are non-issues.

I've been eyeing two relics from Steyr in particular; the gas-delayed GB, and the clip-fed Steyr Hahn. The former is basically an H&K P7 with 18rnd magazine and better DA trigger (allegedly) in 9mm, and the latter the next evolutionary step beyond the C96 Broomhandle Mauser; clip fed through ejection port, 8 round capacity, rotating barrel lockup like the PX4, but in 9x23 Steyr. Two very different guns, each equally unlikely to be seen on the range.


The 1912 Steyr Hahn (Hammer) with its awkward "bleeding edge of technology" look (still pretty slab-sided for guns of that era, though) and distinctive stripper clip. I have to imagine shoving a clip down into a pistol is even cooler than sliding a box-mag up its bell-end ;D

The GB; beaten out of nowhere by upstart Gaston Glock at the peak of its debut in the 80's

Obviously the 70-years-more-advanced GB is the "practical" of the two choices, but that's not the point here. I'm looking for the most "weird" for my buck, but for something that still functions properly as an auto loader (the 1912 is reputed to be fairly reliable, and more importantly, safe to use with its 9mm Steyr chambering). My lean is toward the 1912, since other than a manual of arms that has become obsolete, it seems to be a pretty thought-out piece. However, the GB is such a brilliantly simple mechanism, that along with its large mag capacity (though mags seems scarce) and easy ammo sourcing, it vies for my affections as well.

If anyone with experience with either could chime in with range reports, reviews, or words of caution I'd sure appreciate it. That, and suggestions for other rarely-seen semis of interesting design in the <500$ budget category

TCB

 

[MikeJackmin]

I want a Bergman Bayard Model 1910 pistol, and a Roth Steyer Model 1907.

Both are pictured here.

 

[Storm]

I own and shoot both.

GB: An amazing gun. Very low recoil and muzzle jump. Extremely accurate. I think that it is probably the fastest gun out there in terms of shooting fast and accurately. Mags are rare and expensive. Recently they have been in the $250 to $300 range. I found one in a magazine bin at a local shop for $25. Don't count on that kind of luck. Parts can be an issue but you do see folks selling parts on Gunbroker. Doesn't like to get its nose dirty.

Steyr Hahn: One of the coolest looking guns out there. Looks sort of sci-fi and old fashion at the same time. Mine is in 9mm Steyr. I haven't shot one in 9mm Luger. In 9mm Steyr it is a very smooth shooter and accurate. Rotating barrel system. Using stripper clips doesn't bother me and there are no magazines to buy. The only downside on this one is the ammo which is on the pricey side and not always easy to get.

Unfortunately prices on both the GB and Steyr Hahn have jumped significantly and that was before the hysteria. Prices on the Steyr Hahn will vary depending on which one it is. Chilean Contract seem to be most common. Romanian Contract bring a premium as do the 9mm Luger guns.

 

[barnbwt]

"Mags are rare and expensive. Recently they have been in the $250 to $300 range."

Holy crap! That mag:gun cost ratio is approaching inkjet printer levels ! Did Steyr match them one to a the gun like the SVT's or something?! That really bums me out, the design looked so simple and distilled

Jeez, the 1912 is a better deal, I guess. The stripper clips seem to exist in decent quantity, at least, even if the ammo is a tad more than Largo at checkout.

I know these have been rechambered to 9mm Luger (which isn't exactly paving the streets these days, either), do you think the action could withstand 7.62x25? I hear many of the barrels are shot anyway, why not a shot-out one and reline it to 30cal? If I understand correctly, 9mm Steyr is similar in performance to Largo, and Tokarev/Largo are frequently supportable on each other's platforms (with rechambering, obviously).

It could even feed from 8-round Czech VZ24 stripper clips

"Unfortunately prices on both the GB and Steyr Hahn have jumped significantly and that was before the hysteria."
Who the heck was panic-buying WWI relics?! Although, they probably are the highest-capacity handgun allowed in NYC these days what with the internal magazine

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

I forgot to ask;
There appears to be no interlock preventing the gun from firing with the front takedown pin absent. This pin applies return spring force to the slide. Is it a complimentary lobotomy if the gun fires with this piece missing or sheared-through? (I wouldn't think so, but it's better to know than to wonder )

TCB

 

[Fremmer]

How can you say no to a stripper clip pistol?!?

 

[barnbwt]

Interestingly, there appears to be a company making replacement barrels, if you can believe that. Even extended length versions, which I presume could be threaded

IGB Austria


Yeah, they're like +300$ for a 9mm, but when you consider what any normal barrel would cost, the kinds of machining required for this design, and just how dang obscure and low-production they must be, I'm surprised it's even that low. Heck, 9mm CZ52 barrels go for several hundred, these days, and they don't look nearly as well made.

I haven't been able to hear back from any places whether or not the gun could handle a Tokarev rechambering. The pressures/bolt thrust seem like it would be reasonable proposition, and the necked design would only improve feeding. It appears the feed lip in the magwell is far enough back to clear the neck constriction, too, so it should feed just like a 9mm Luger. I'll have to contact some places to see if they think a Tokarev variant would be a good idea (or if they've done one before)

Sandy Gun Works also appears to service these guns, doing barrel relining (may or may not be cheaper than a direct replacement)

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

Well, here's the warhorse I'll be welcoming to the stable in a week or so:


Doesn't get much more Deco than that . Austrian Army issue, "tasteful" import marks around the model number, the grips are not standard, but seem more befitting than finely checkered dark walnut.

TCB

 

[Jim K]

The Steyr-Hahn can be fired without the barrel wedge in place and doing so might not do the gun any good. But, unlike the dual link Colt-Brownings with the same kind of setup, the slide will not come back in the shooter's face.

Actually, the Steyr-Hahn is a good pistol and with practice the clip loading is quite fast, though not as fast as changing a magazine. They served the Austrian/German military and police in two wars, and many were taken over by the Germans in WWII, and converted to 9mm P. Those are marked "08" on the left side of the slide to indicate that they take the German 1908 (Luger) cartridge. The original spring is a flat coil, but they can be converted to a conventional round coil easily enough if the flat spring breaks, which they sometimes do.

Jim

 

[barnbwt]

Well, it finally came home, today

The seller managed to find two clips for it and generously sent those as well (a 5$ value or so). Condition is better than the CZ52 I bought, except for the barrel interior, which is as crusty as a juggler but still has decent rifling. All other metal is very flat and smooth, aside from very scattered and faint pitting, and hairline scratches. I didn't know stainless existed back then, but there are several pieces like the mag follower that actually look polished.

I can tell the grips are fatter than the original scales would have been, adding a good .25" to the width, which I find comfortable for a magwell as long as this. The screw head has started a crack in the bottom of the grip where the wood is thin which I can easily repair. The slide release/bullet fountain button is tiny and quite hard to actuate; as with many service pistols, it would be faster to just slingshot the slide after loading (safer for both your thumbs, too). The manual safety/slide latch gets a lot of bad rep for wearing easily, but mine appears to function, and isn't difficult to switch. It switches up for safe and is really far back, so it's easier for your weak hand to move it to safe, but a thumb can swipe it down quickly to fire. The slide is fairly hard to draw back, probably almost as tough as my CZ52 with the 20lb Wolff spring in it, but the giant knobs on the rear make it easier to get a grip than the CZ.

The trigger is light and smooth, with a good deal of first stage takeup before a squishy but short release. Really light --around 3-4lbs . I'm convinced the sear is worn down, since the barrel indicates this was not a match shooter's gun . However, jostling the pistol, banging on the hammer, racking/releasing the slide, and the like would not dislodge it, so I will trust it to not run away for now. I do notice occasional hammer follow on manual racking, especially if done slow, in which I can tell the sear only ~1/2 engages --the hammer stays back, but isn't rotated down quite far enough to clear the slide, and is banged loose by it when the slide is released (it I try to ride the slide forward, it will actually block the slide's motion). My hope is that the energetic operation of the slide by recoil will avoid this scenario most times. The hammer is pretty small, too, with a short pivot and horn that makes it tough to manually cock/drop, which I think stands out from other guns of the day whose hammers looked more at home on revolvers. It definitely smacks pretty good, though.

Takedown is an absolute pain, though simple :banghead:. The spring loaded push pin at the front must've ripped the thumbnails off countless Austrian troops. I did get it out, though, for a field strip. All parts are smooth non-corroded metal, the rotary cams very slick. Other than being a machining/tooling nightmare, the design is quite simple and clever. Relative motion of the frame cams the barrel to rotate, in so doing it pulls away from the breechface a hair for very strong initial extraction, after which the slide separates and ejects the casing. There are a total of three lugs that hold the barrel back, not counting the camming surface which is set at a steep angle to the bore, for a total bearing surface that has got to be twice that of my CZ52's rollers, and probably more than a 1911's. The gun feels lighter and is much more balanced than the CZ, the slide side panels are only 2mm or so thick. The moulded/machined cam surfaces are about 3/32" tall.

Now the bad news (not really); 7.62x25 Tokarev will not quite fit . It fits the clips perfectly, but is about .5mm too long to get through the slide opening, and about 1-1.5mm too long for the magwell (rake angle). Interestingly, one round will sit comfortably below the slide in the feed ramp, and will strip/feed like it was made to. I'll have to look around and see if shorter bullets exist in 308 caliber (the tok's round nose sticks out really far) because this gun is just screaming to be in that caliber (I can hear it even now...)

The box is in fairly good condition, considering what its age must be. There's one joint that's coming unglued (with an old Elmer's glue repair) that I can hit with some Titebond III to cure for the rest of time. It's made of something like cherry, I think, and has a light satin varnish. The felt interior is a DIY job, and is starting to come up at the edges where the contact-adhesive is deteriorating. The felt is in pretty good shape, and its contrast in workmanship compared to the rest leads me to believe it may be a recent addition (and the box was originally unlined). I know cloth is a bad thing to store guns on, but it obviously hasn't hurt this one recently. There is a clever scrutiny 8x3 + 1 holes drilled for loose rounds, but the pattern looks cool, and they do hold 9mm/tokarev snugly. The block is short enough that a loaded clip can sit atop it with the lid shut. The brass hinges/latches are tarnished but in working condition. The box really adds to the class of the pistol, the LGS guys were pretty impressed with the whole package. It's kinda making me want to look into making functional "shadow boxes" for my other old guns. Line it with the colors/flag of the nation, and etch or burn an insignia on the interior/exterior --instant cool.

If I'm not distracted by a box-building kick by this, I'll be looking into reaming out the barrel and having it sleeved for Tokarev (if shorter OAL bullets exist). That or getting a replacement barrel. The round is cooler, and the thicker sleeve would make me feel better, too (the barrel is pretty thin for a 9mm as is --about as thin as my CZ52 9mm conversion barrel). I would test this guy out this weekend, but there is no ammo to be had, hence the 7.62x25 in the clips . I'll wait for someone to sell both ammo and clips online and pick up some of each

TCB

PS-the box makes it really easy to take a nice picture of the gun, btw

 

[Fremmer]

That's a good looking pistol.

 

[Jaymo]

You could always ream/sleeve that barrel for the Tok round AND buy a replacement 9mm barrel.

 

[barnbwt]

That's most likely what I'll do, since I have little interest in permanent mods if not absolutely necessary. What'd be really cool is if the barrel company would turn a 30 caliber blank instead of a 9mm and ship it to me to do the chamber reaming (probably too much to ask, since I don't speak Austrian, though )

TCB

 

[Jim K]

I just noticed this ".... the gas-delayed GB, and the clip-fed Steyr Hahn. The former is basically an H&K P7..."

Off hand, I find it hard to think of two more different pistols than the Steyr GB and the H&K P7.

Jim

 

[barnbwt]

The architecture is a bit different, but the principle is the same. The P7 is closer than anything else I can think of, and most people have never heard of the GB

TCB