Sticky brass in F/TR even after full length resize

[TargetTerror]

I bought a couple thousand Lake City once fired 308 brass to load for my Savage F/TR. I'd previously used some Lapua brass, but it was just too expensive to buy in bulk. The Lapua sized fine, and would chamber and extra just fine, even when only neck sized. With the Lake City brass, all the brass is really sticky, and the bolt requires a fair amount of force to close and open (thats open even before the round has been fired). I've tried a Lee die, and just tonight an RCBS X-die to no avail.

I'm thinking that the dies just aren't getting the military brass quite to spec, and the F/TR's chamber is tight enough that it matters in this case. But why would the Lapua do OK? Might it be that they started undersized, then fireformed, then shrunk back enough after firing to make extraction (and future chambering) easy? And the LC by contrast could be fired in a larger chamber, so neither the dies nor fire forming wouldn't be able to pull it back down to spec?

 

[Zak Smith]

I've found that different F/S dies "full size" different amounts. I went to a Forster F/S die in a couple calibers to help a similar problem.

 

[loadedround]

It's just possible that your LC brass was fired in a military semi or likely a full auto weapon which are known to have very loose tolerances to keep them fucnctioning. It just possible that the bases have expanded so much that your regular sizing die can't bring them down to spec. If you have enough money tied up in these LC cases, I would suggest you purchase a 308 small base sizing die from either Redding or RCBS and I'm certain that will solve your problem. I had a similar situation with 30-06 brass a few years back and a SB die solved my problem. Good luck.

 

[fguffey]

Again, I make the gages I use, before removing a case from the press as in before lowering the ram I can tell if the case won or my press(es) won, all of my presses are adjustable with MOST SHELL HOLDERS, from .017 below a go gage to .011 beyond a go gage, there is no such thing as sizing a case that is too tough to size and chambering a round with resistance in anything but a very clean environment is called 'lug lapping'.

Again I do not tighten the lock nut to the die (I adjust the die every time) and I remove the slack between the threads with the ram up and in a bind or when sizing with the ram up. My favorite type of die is the trim/forming die. I transfer measurements from the chamber to the press for sizing, a go gage could be used to check full length sizing BUT that would require a feeler gage.



F. Guffey

 

[Walkalong]

different F/S dies "full size" different amounts

Yep.


fguffey has a point about different brass having different needs to get them all sized the same amount, but it's really only critical for match guns and ammo. If useing a bunch of mixed brass some will size more than others. (Different inherent toughness, how much it is work hardened compared to the last case etc. Some are dead soft, and some are very tough)

When bumping the shoulder in on my 6PPC brass for a tight necked chamber I want to bump it back .001 or less, so I have to check it every time I size my little batch because it slowly work hardens and the sizer has to be adjusted to keep up. This is a non issue with standard sizing and standard chambers. A good sizer will size brass enough to fit a proper chamber.

So, I agree with Zak that a somewhat tighter sizer, not necassarily a small base, will fix your problem. Forster dies are good stuff. One would be worth a try.

I have 3 .45 ACP sizers, all three are slightly different sizes.

 

[SP Shop Foreman]

Zak, +1 and if you really want to know, Cerrocast the chamber. Its not hard to do.

Latigo

 

[TargetTerror]

Thanks everyone. I played around with the sizing die a bit, and it is absolutely as far down as it will go, and still its being difficult. All the cases have been trimmed, so I know it's not a case length issue.

I ordered a small base die and hopefully that will rectify things. If it does not, is there any negative to have brass that is this tight? (other than have to work the bolt harder?) None of this brass will be for an autoloader, so feeding and extracting reliability in that regard is not at issue for me.

 

[redneckdan]

Try the small base die. Another tool to invest in is the hornady LnL case gaging tool. I made my own version but the hornady tool will work fine. With out this tool you truely do not know how much you are pushing back the shoulder from the chamber dimension. I would say .001-.002" is enough to allow free chambering in your rifle.

Brass is elastic, it expands upon firing and contracts enough to allow it to be extracted....but it doesn't contract as much as it did the previous firing. Eventually even those laupa cases will get sticky. This is why across the course and F-class shooters usually full length size instead of neck size only.


Your rifle is not a bench rest rifle, it doesn't have a tight chamber...no production rifle does. It may be on the minimium side of saami spec but its not the same thing as what benchresters would call 'tight'. Neck only sizing would make little if any difference in your rifle, a botched wind call with lose you more points....

 

[jim147]

Blacken some of the LC brass to see where it is tight.
Is an empty case tight?
If it is tight on the neck you need to find out why.
If it is tight on the case body you should be OK to shoot them if you don't mind the extra work out the bolt and your arm get.

 

[TargetTerror]

Well my RCBS small base die arrived today. The problem has resolved itself.