This should have been the only answer.The simplest solution to this is just to have the brother buy a cheap shotgun locally.
Provided your brother isn't a prohibited person just send him a gift card from Academy, etc and he can get his own gun locally. Avoid this illegal movement/transfer of guns. We all are trying to keep you out of prison.
Giving someone money (or something of value), or promising to give him money (or something of value), for him to buy a gun and transfer it to you would be illegal under Abramki v. U. S.,134 S. Ct. 2259 (2014). Giving someone money so that he could buy a gun (or anything else he might want) to keep for himself is not.
I would rethink that phrasing....@il.bill: Think of it this way: Legally, the crime committed during a straw purchase is when someone lies on question 11a. of Form 4473, which states: “Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?” In other words, it’s asking, “Is this gun for you, or did someone else give you money to buy a gun for them?” So if the gun is for you, then you’re not lying by answering “Yes” to that question and therefore you’re not committing a straw purchase.
As I sometimes tell customers when this question comes up: It doesn't matter who pays for it as long as the person receiving the gun is the one filling out the 4473.
Agreed, it was poorly phrased in that post. Usually my question to customers where this is an issue starts off with: “Who is the gun actually for?”. If they can’t give me a straight answer or I think they might be lying, I’ll deny the sale. And sometimes they straight up admit to trying to commit a straw purchase since they still think a straw purchase is limited to buying a gun for a prohibited person.I would rethink that phrasing....
My understanding is that does not apply when the two faces are attached to bodies which legally reside in different states.No felonies committed here just free men living in free states. Face to face firearm transactions are still legal.
Second, who pays certainly does matter, World Pawn and J&G Sales found that out a couple of years ago. This is why you are seeing more and more online retailers warning the transfer dealer to only transfer to the person named on the invoice.
To be clear......my mentioning "transfer only to the name on the invoice" is due to the lawsuit involving World Pawn & J&G Sales. It is not an ATF requirement.Thats what i would think too but when Tom mentions invoice, I think register receipt, and that's different than a 4473.
Maybe I need to better understand what Tom means by invoice.
1. It would be the licensees call on whether its a genuine loan. If both are buying it would seem less likely to be a straw purchase.Simply, person A has a credit card and B doesn't and didn't have enough cash on hand to pay himself. Guns stay with respective names on 4473.
I don't think it matters much if it is a C&R or not.So my brother does not have any firearm for SD. With things getting so crazy I was thinking of "storing" one of my SGs at his home for my use when I visit. Is this legal? Is there any difference between doing this with a C&R vs non C&R?
I don't think it matters much if it is a C&R or not.
If you want to transfer it to him, just have him get a C&R license and do it legally.
To be clear......my mentioning "transfer only to the name on the invoice" is due to the lawsuit involving World Pawn & J&G Sales. It is not an ATF requirement.
By "invoice" I mean the sales invoice/receipt/packing slip that accompanies most firearm shipments.
The last thing the dealer wants to see is an invoice for John Brown, yet Mary Jones arrives to pick up the gun. The first question that comes to mind is "Why isn't John Brown picking up the gun HE paid for?"
The fear of a straw sale (and the repercussions) makes dealers suspicious of any out of the ordinary sale.
Now, if John Brown had called or emailed me earlier, saying "Hey Tom, Im buying a pistol for my girlfriend, can she come in to pick it up?"..........in my head thats different.
1. It would be the licensees call on whether its a genuine loan. If both are buying it would seem less likely to be a straw purchase.
But.........
2. This could be a means of avoiding the multiple sale of handgun reporting to ATF (required of the dealer when a buyer acquires more than one handgun from that dealer in a five business day period)
You would be correct--outside of FFL's who can transfer firearms across the state lines because of their license, everyone else must transfer through an FFL for transfers among residents from other states. Few odd exceptions not withstanding and wiser to do that on them too because of compliance with state laws in addition. Pretty much interstate transfers through FFL's will take care of both federal and state legal issues in most cases.My understanding is that does not apply when the two faces are attached to bodies which legally reside in different states.