Storing primers and powder in the garage

[VrockTDSaz]

Any problems with storing primers and powders in the garage? Separate of course. I hadn't been because I was worried about them getting to hot/cold or humid. My plan is to store them in some sort of locking cabinet. Temperature here ranges from low 30s in the winter (though rare) to over 100 in the summer (all summer). It gets quite humid in July.

 

[Khaot1c]

Is it good for it? Hard to say, I've been doing it that way since I moved to Florida (about 3 years ago)

I have a metal locker where I store my primers and powder that are 'in use'. As in, they are opened but still in their original container/package. I have a spare bedroom in the house with a closet I use for stashing my hoarded supplies. I'm not permitted to bring my 'noisy hobby' indoors so I reload in the garage and keep my (opened) supplies there as a matter of convenience. I would rather do that then subject them to humidity fluctuations in the summer. You know, like walking outside from indoors and your glasses get all fogged over? Maybe I'm going about it all wrong. If I'm doing it wrong, I don't know I'm doing it wrong.

Perhaps my next planned purchase of a chronograph will tell more of the tale.....

 

[VrockTDSaz]

Khaotic,

That's exactly what I've been doing, but the wife wants it locked up. Which I think really means out of the closet. So, I was thinking of putting it in a cheapo locked cabinet in the garage. The primers can go in the safe, but safe space is at a premium around here.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

As long as the powder is seal up in it's original container it should be ok for storage in your garage. The primers, I would keep inside somewhere if it were me.
I did keep primers in my damp bacement for a few years when I lived in Pa, I kept them in ziplock freezer bags. It didn't seem to hurt them.

I wouldn't lock either one up in a steel cabinet, you would be making a bomb if there were a fire. Powder and primers are supposed to be stored in containers or cabinets that open easily so they can't build pressure in the event of a fire.

 

[nastynatesfish]

I keep all my stuff in the garage. I keep all my primers in zip lock bags. No issue

 

[Swampman]

If you're going to store your components in a non climate controlled area you should probably at least try to keep your primers stored in Ziplock type bags (in original packaging of course).

I have a friend that keeps his powder in a refrigerator in his shop, primers are kept in a freezer. He just gets them out a couple of hours before he's going to load so that they have a chance to come to room temperature while still sealed so that they don't get any condensation on them.

 

[cfullgraf]

I wouldn't lock either one up in a steel cabinet, you would be making a bomb if there were a fire. Powder and primers are supposed to be stored in containers or cabinets that open easily so they can't build pressure in the event of a fire.

Right.

Even just a latch will keep a steel cabinet closed long enough to generate excessive pressure if the powder or primers are set off.

I believe it is SAAMI has a design of a wood cabinet for safe storage of powders.

I have seen information in the past but I cannot lay my hands on it at this time.

 

[Khaot1c]

My metal locker is a vented "flammable liquids" locker i got from a warehouse as it was shutting down a few years back. Ya, gunpowder is a bit more than a flammable liquid but I figure the premise is about the same. Fire around it - is bad. The vent is a mesh covered port about 3 inches in diameter. It has a metal shelf on the inside. Powder goes up top, primers go on bottom. It's only tall enough for a box of primers on bottom and a bottle of Power pistol on top. So, not very tall. All in all holds a few boxes of primers and powder.

 

[dickttx]

I think one of the ideas behind the SAMMI locker is that the 3/4" wood insulates the contents for awhile.

 

[GLOOB]

Most powders are in a constant state of degradation... only very very slow. But heat speeds up the reaction to where it might be a factor in your lifetime. If you plan to shoot that powder before 2045, then it probably doesn't matter either way.

 

[Rule3]

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx#recommendations

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I have a friend that keeps his powder in a refrigerator in his shop, primers are kept in a freezer

That's fine as long as the refrigerator and freezer have nothing more than a magnetic seal on the doors. That actually would be an ideal container. I don't know about freezing my primers, I've seen arguments on that one before, so what ever floats his boat.
If the refrigerator and freezer have the old latching doors, your friend is asking for a disaster if there were a fire.

 

[Jim Watson]

A guy here has recently replaced his kitchen refrigerator and is moving the old one to the shop for powder and primer storage. It has magnetic door seals and would not build up pressure in the unlikely event that it was in a penetrating fire.

 

[medalguy]

I built storage cabinets IAW SAAMI specifications. Both (2) powder cabinets and (1) primer cabinet are built of 3/4 inch birch plywood, nailed together with pretty small finishing nails and with a hinged top that just lifts up. No latch or lock. The idea is that in the event of a fire, the wood will insulate the contents for a little while, and if it does explode, the walls will easily blow out and the lid lift up. Powder is on one side of the room, and primers on the other side, 22 feet apart. My county fire inspector gave me a go on it.

 

[VrockTDSaz]

I can build a little cabinet that's not nailed together very well. That describes most my attempts at carpentry. My other option was buying a used minifridge, but I don't think that'll be enough space. My primary concern is that 110 degrees in the summer is going to accelerate powder degradation. I guess I could always hide the powder in the spare room closet.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I'm not sure that 110deg would actually degrade your powder that much or that quickly. Most of what I have read is that degradation really accelerates at a higher temperatures than that, like at 130 and above but especially up to 150deg. In the dark of a refrigerator or a wood cabinet in your garage, it would never get that hot.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can attest to that one. I've seen posts from people that had actual scientific proof of where the serious degradation starts. In your case at 110deg on and off for a couple months at the most, through the summer in Arizona, you would probably use it before it would go bad unless you buy it in 8lb jugs, even then I would doubt it.

 

[rambokid]

I would love to see more on this because I live in Indiana and store in my garage. One of my favorite sayings is "if you dont like the weather, stick around...it will change.

 

[Rule3]

I can build a little cabinet that's not nailed together very well. That describes most my attempts at carpentry. My other option was buying a used minifridge, but I don't think that'll be enough space. My primary concern is that 110 degrees in the summer is going to accelerate powder degradation. I guess I could always hide the powder in the spare room closet.

I live below the Sub Tropic line in Fl. Although we do not get the temp changes you get in the Dessert it is always hot and humid. We do not usually go above 100. Highs are around 95 but get much hotter in the garage. Humidity is a constant,
I store powder and primers inside in the air conditioned house. The closet (the whole inside of the house) is drywall which is what they line fireproof safes with.

Any old refrigerator with magnet seals makes a good storage compartment and helps insulate against the temp swings.

You powder will do better in cool or cold. Heat is worse. I post the specs above in a PDF.

 

[suemarkp]

How about use the fridge to store it, but plug in that fridge during the summer to keep it cooler. Unplug during the winter.

 

[medalguy]

I have read a lot of posts where guys store their powder in an unplugged fridge, and that seems to control the temperature pretty well. Has anyone done any actual tests on temperature rise in an unplugged fridge in the garage?

 

[hartcreek]

Back during WWII grain was shipped by the military in galvinized lined wooded crates that had an O ring top seal and cams to keep the lid sealed. I use a couple of these for my powder and keep my primers in the metal cam lock ammo cans.

What you use will depend on how much powder and primers you have to store as ther are legal requirements depending on how many pounds you have. Havent looked at the requirements in years......seems I remember the cut off point was fifty pounds.

 

[hapidogbreath]

Has anyone used a SEAL-A-MEAL vacuum packer to put stuff into for LT storage???

 

[Foto Joe]

After having spent 35 years in Arizona (Lake Havasu City) I personally never would store my powder or primers in the garage during the summer. First of all you wouldn't find me on a loading bench in an un-air conditioned garage in the summer trying to put loads together without succumbing to heat stroke.

Besides the risk of fire starting in the garage (which is common), my fear would be degradation of the powder due to the extreme heat. I believe if you read the label on the powder it states that the product should be stored in a "cool dry place". 'Nuf said.

 

[Slamfire]

I'm not sure that 110deg would actually degrade your powder that much or that quickly. Most of what I have read is that degradation really accelerates at a higher temperatures than that, like at 130 and above but especially up to 150deg. In the dark of a refrigerator or a wood cabinet in your garage, it would never get that hot.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can attest to that one. I've seen posts from people that had actual scientific proof of where the serious degradation starts. In your case at 110deg on and off for a couple months at the most, through the summer in Arizona, you would probably use it before it would go bad unless you buy it in 8lb jugs, even then I would doubt it.

Unfortunately, very bad advice. Heat is the absolute worst thing you can expose gunpowder. Well, there might be some others, but heat is absolutely bad, bad, bad.

Heat accelerates the deterioration/decomposition of powder and the rate is directly proportional to the Arrhenius equation, which is an exponential function. Maybe this is a simpler way to say it: the lifetime of ammunition decreases exponentially as temperature rises. This table is instructive on how quickly heat deteriorates smokeless propellants, and notice, the rate of deterioriation above 86F, not 110F:


UN manual on ammunition inspection. See section 7.3.

Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nations

http://www.un.org/disarmament/conva...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf





There is almost no data on the internet because all that was ever needed to be known about gunpowder aging was determined well before WW2. However ball powders did come out at the end of WW2 and I was able to find this data showing that gunpowder at the end of its lifetime will pressure spike. In accelerated aging tests, heat is used to accelerate the age of gunpowder, so what you are seeing is in fact because of “age”, not heat, but it took heat to age the powder quickly. The IMR is a single based and the WC is a double based ball powder.

INVESTIGATION OF THE BALLISTIC AND CHEMICAL STABILITY OF 7.62MM AMMUNITION LOADED WITH BALL AND IMR PROPELLANT

Frankfort Arsenal 1962

3. Effects of Accelerated Storage Propellant and Primer Performance

To determine the effect of accelerated isothermal storage upon propellant and primer performance, sixty cartridges from each of lots E (WC 846) and G (R 1475) were removed from 150F storage after 26 and 42 weeks, respectively. The bullets were then removed from half the cartridges of each lot and from an equal number of each lot previously stored at 70F. The propellants were then interchanged, the bullets re-inserted, and the cases recrimped. Thus, four variations of stored components were obtained with each lot.

Chamber pressures yielded by ammunition incorporating these four variations were as follows. These values represent averages of 20 firings.

 

[VrockTDSaz]

So, it seems like the moral of the story is to move the powder and ammunition out of the garage and into the closet in the spare room.