A thread came up recently about carrying in NYC so I thought I’d tell a story about a non-New York resident carrying concealed in NYC and getting busted for it. This is a bit long, but I thought I'd share this. We can always learn something from the experiences of others.
In 2004 I had a co-worker who had a CCW for PA (Philadelphia). He was a younger guy, 23 or so, and was going up to NYC with a friend to visit some other friends one weekend. He was a non-drinker so that isn’t the issue here. The bottom line is while it would be illegal to carry across state lines from PA to NY (especially NYC,) he rationalized that getting shot or stabbed would be worse than getting arrested for illegal CCW, so he ended up deciding to carry as a precaution. He figured if he kept it concealed, no one would know and he’d be ok. I think many of us have been in that dilemma. What is more important; obeying the law and subjecting yourself to danger by not carrying or breaking the law and subjecting yourself to legal persecution?
To give the story better context (but not turn it into a race issue) my co-worker was black and like some young people, didn’t dress very conservatively. Hey, I've seen white 23 yr olds dress just as casual (or fooilsh in my opinion). So I will admit his appearance may have been a factor. * As you may have guessed, his friend and he were pulled over in NYC, the car was searched (the cops came up with some alleged probable cause) and he spent from Friday night to Monday afternoon in an NYC jail until he could get bailed out. Keep in mind this was a jail in NYC. It was 30 guys in one big common room for various charges. My co-worker was a big guy and pretty street smart, but he said the weekend was total hell. He said he literally had to go into a survival mode where his face was stone, emotions like iron- playing the street game of avoiding conflicts with other inmates but not backing down (don't give up your seat for example), projecting a vibe he wasn’t to be messed with while inside he was really scared. He said he was so nervous and high strung, he barely could eat and didn’t dare sh—all weekend, not on the open toilet in front of the whole room. He didn’t see anyone raped but an Asian guy got beat up and robbed in front of him in the common room. As I said, he was a street smart Philly guy, and still said it was a horrible and frightening 60 hours.
On a side note- before we make any social assumptions about my old co-worker, he was a college graduate with a clean record, not some thug. So let's not jump to a "well that could never happen to me" mindset.
On the Monday, he was fortunately bailed out and came back to PA. The legal process was very long, costly, and he had to travel all the way back to NYC for every court date. Eventually his lawyer proved the cops didn’t have probable cause to search the car so the entire case was thrown out (he is a parole officer today so it couldn’t have stained his record too much) but I don’t think he ever got his pistol back (Glock 23).
The point of all this? This isn't some boo-hoo story, it's just something to consider when you think about carrying over state lines (which I would admit may be necessary at times).
1. Carrying a pistol into NY or NJ (as a PA or non-NY resident) is always a risk. This story illustrates the high price you can pay if you are caught.
2. You are often treated how you dress. I am sure most THR guys don’t dress like Snoop Dog, a goth, or some heavy metal guy, etc, but I don’t think (in this story) their dress helped them when they were pulled over (note: not trying to start a cop racial profiling thing here). I just think its common sense. I think police, and society in general, often treats you how you dress and carry yourself.
Anyway, this was just a story for you guys to chew on. I’ll open this up, maybe some other guys have stories about people they know who were busted for carrying concealed in the wrong place (different state, posted area, etc).
In 2004 I had a co-worker who had a CCW for PA (Philadelphia). He was a younger guy, 23 or so, and was going up to NYC with a friend to visit some other friends one weekend. He was a non-drinker so that isn’t the issue here. The bottom line is while it would be illegal to carry across state lines from PA to NY (especially NYC,) he rationalized that getting shot or stabbed would be worse than getting arrested for illegal CCW, so he ended up deciding to carry as a precaution. He figured if he kept it concealed, no one would know and he’d be ok. I think many of us have been in that dilemma. What is more important; obeying the law and subjecting yourself to danger by not carrying or breaking the law and subjecting yourself to legal persecution?
To give the story better context (but not turn it into a race issue) my co-worker was black and like some young people, didn’t dress very conservatively. Hey, I've seen white 23 yr olds dress just as casual (or fooilsh in my opinion). So I will admit his appearance may have been a factor. * As you may have guessed, his friend and he were pulled over in NYC, the car was searched (the cops came up with some alleged probable cause) and he spent from Friday night to Monday afternoon in an NYC jail until he could get bailed out. Keep in mind this was a jail in NYC. It was 30 guys in one big common room for various charges. My co-worker was a big guy and pretty street smart, but he said the weekend was total hell. He said he literally had to go into a survival mode where his face was stone, emotions like iron- playing the street game of avoiding conflicts with other inmates but not backing down (don't give up your seat for example), projecting a vibe he wasn’t to be messed with while inside he was really scared. He said he was so nervous and high strung, he barely could eat and didn’t dare sh—all weekend, not on the open toilet in front of the whole room. He didn’t see anyone raped but an Asian guy got beat up and robbed in front of him in the common room. As I said, he was a street smart Philly guy, and still said it was a horrible and frightening 60 hours.
On a side note- before we make any social assumptions about my old co-worker, he was a college graduate with a clean record, not some thug. So let's not jump to a "well that could never happen to me" mindset.
On the Monday, he was fortunately bailed out and came back to PA. The legal process was very long, costly, and he had to travel all the way back to NYC for every court date. Eventually his lawyer proved the cops didn’t have probable cause to search the car so the entire case was thrown out (he is a parole officer today so it couldn’t have stained his record too much) but I don’t think he ever got his pistol back (Glock 23).
The point of all this? This isn't some boo-hoo story, it's just something to consider when you think about carrying over state lines (which I would admit may be necessary at times).
1. Carrying a pistol into NY or NJ (as a PA or non-NY resident) is always a risk. This story illustrates the high price you can pay if you are caught.
2. You are often treated how you dress. I am sure most THR guys don’t dress like Snoop Dog, a goth, or some heavy metal guy, etc, but I don’t think (in this story) their dress helped them when they were pulled over (note: not trying to start a cop racial profiling thing here). I just think its common sense. I think police, and society in general, often treats you how you dress and carry yourself.
Anyway, this was just a story for you guys to chew on. I’ll open this up, maybe some other guys have stories about people they know who were busted for carrying concealed in the wrong place (different state, posted area, etc).
