Story: People Arming Themselves in St. Paul Neighborhood in Response to Summer Crime

[Aim1]

Good. News anchors aren't for or against but it a positive story.

They interview a business owner who has her employees obtain CCW permits.



https://kstp.com/news/people-arming...hborhood-in-response-to-summer-crime/5012612/

People Arming Themselves in St. Paul Neighborhood in Response to Summer Crime

July 31, 2018 10:22 PM

There are at least two dozen people on St. Paul's North End obtaining permits to carry a concealed weapon in response to a summer increase in crime.

 

[LiveLife]

When federal judge forced early release of inmates from California prisons and violent crime increased 37% in the city I used to live in (we would frequently go to bed to the sound of gun shots, often entire magazines being emptied), even anti-gun coworkers bought guns and asked me to train them.

I said "Sure" but when I asked why the change, they said they were either personally victims of burglary/robbery or knew family/friends/neighbors who were. When they realized calling 911 would not help them if home invasion robbery took place, they decided to defend themselves by arming themselves.

Many of them are now CCW permit holders and supporters of the Second Amendment.

 

[Riomouse911]

Soros and his liberal nutcases just paid for the election of 11 new DA's out of the 58 in Ca. They're not going after the laws to soften up on crime because voters aren't that stupid (Except here in CA). Instead they're going after the DA's who prosecute the crooks.

Soros and his minions will be coming to a DA's race near you, so pay attention to who is running...and who is supporting the candidates.

I am GLAD to see people taking their safety and security seriously, and in many cases this involves a CCW and training.

Godspeed good citizens of St. Paul!

 

[LiveLife]

I grew up in Los Angeles basin and worked in East LA during and shortly after college. I saw gang violence first hand and inability for police to protect individual citizens to where they had to take matters into their own hands.


During Rodney King riot when police could not maintain law and order, only thing that protected individuals was armed citizens. During the riot my parents lived in Pasadena (just north of LA) and when different gangs started looting, neighbors in their street met and barricaded both ends of the street with cars (that allowed small opening for a car to barely drive through) and posted armed citizen patrols at both ends on 24/7 basis with signs that said "Residents of this street are armed". While other streets were looted, houses on their street were untouched. When gang bangers in lowriders approached the street, display of firearms quickly turned them away.


During various hurricanes, we saw temporary loss of law and order that lasted weeks to months. During this time, many people got robbed, raped and killed. Here is an excerpt of crime/violence following hurricane Katrina - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...w-orleans-looting-violence-misleading-reports

"Mike Kelly, 60, a former sniper in Iraq who was shipped to New Orleans with the national guard ... The most dangerous element in the early days of the flood consisted of drug addicts who were unpredictable, especially if armed ... represented the majority of looters who were stealing in order to stock up on goods to pay for their habits ... he also had to chase away another unpredictable form of looter: New Orleans police officers found rummaging through the local Walmart."


As reported by World Health Organization in this pdf, this NIH article also reports increase in violence after natural disasters - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3908534/

"... being exposed to natural disasters such as tsunami, hurricane, earthquake, and flood increases the violence against women and girls, rape and sexual abuse, intimate partner violence, child PTSD, child abuse and inflicted traumatic brain injury."


Here's one recount by Miami-Dade police major during hurricane Andrew - https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/wha...-as-a-police-officer-during-a-major-hurricane

"The police weren’t 100 percent there either. A lot of them just went AWOL. They’d drive their families up to Tennessee or somewhere [to get away from the disaster area]."


This is the reality for post-hurricane Andrew South Florida having to cope with violence - https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...-with-violence-and-decrepit-buildings-7550133

"After a few minutes, a burst of gunfire rocks the earth. POP-POP-POP-POP! POP-POP-POP-POP-POP! The shots are loud and booming ... We head for cover. POP! Another shot. We squeeze into the lobby. More fire ... a young man in a white T-shirt can be seen bobbing and ducking behind a white sedan in the parking lot. He's trying to shoot someone across the lot."


Fact is police cannot be everywhere and armed citizens may be the only ones that could protect the lives of others like in recent Florida shooting - http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...in-florida-something-media-rarely-report.html

"Law enforcement officers cannot be everywhere, so the presence of armed citizens is vital to provide an instant response to attackers."

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

They're not going after the laws to soften up on crime because voters aren't that stupid

I admire your optimism.

"... being exposed to natural disasters such as tsunami, hurricane, earthquake, and flood increases the violence against women and girls, rape and sexual abuse, intimate partner violence, child PTSD, child abuse and inflicted traumatic brain injury."

Sound like a government report.
I'm confident that no matter how hard the wind blows or how high the water gets, I won't beat up my wife, rape anyone or abuse children.

 

[Walkalong]

You won't but people do. It brings out the crazy in crazies.

 

[LiveLife]

I'm confident that no matter how hard the wind blows or how high the water gets, I won't beat up my wife, rape anyone or abuse children.

Good for you. Same here.

But sadly that's not the case for some percentage of the population. Believe me, it doesn't take much for some people to snap and get violent. And when they snap and police response is minutes/hours/days away, words won't stop them from harming you or your family. And it could simply be just summer heat.

About 20 years ago, there was a power outage during hot summer afternoon of 100F+. We were lined up at 7 Eleven that allowed one customer at a time to shop inside (most were getting ice) and irritated customers quickly become irate that became a shoving fest which escalated to a fight. My wife and I chose to go to the park and sit under a tree instead and I wondered how things would escalate if power outage lasted several days.

When my Army unit ran a disaster response exercise of earthquake damaged Los Angeles, grim expectation was anticipated due to widespread looting and violence. We were told to be prepared to shoot to kill if rioters broke through established perimeters. A co-worker told me he was in the Air Force as Military Police and was deployed to respond to Rodney King riot. He said although their vehicles were packed full of ammunition, they all feared for their lives when they actually faced angry violent rioters. Imagine facing such a crowd without firearm?

Decades later when I worked for a state government agency that oversaw the entire state, there was a statewide earthquake exercise of 9.0+. We were making plans how we would respond to Los Angeles area but after several computer simulations were run, they told us to write off Los Angeles initially as widespread violence and traffic jam would make any organized response pointless. And without delivery of food and supplies by trucking companies, LA area would quickly deteriorate and law and order would be lost until National Guard could restore law and order some time later. This among many reasons is why I moved away from Los Angeles.

As we have seen over and over again in past decades, it doesn't take much for people to become violent. Sad but true. It's reality in 2018.

Every major cities in 3 states around me are having gang, crime and drug problems exacerbated by homelessness/transient population. Meth addicts are brazen to take anything they can even in broad daylight. My parents living in the next state have experienced this first hand while funding for law enforcement decreased for their county. Yes, many of his neighbors have bought guns and have obtained CCW permits. They are currently making plans to relocate to area with lower crime rate and I may have to relocate with them to take care of them.

My sister and family living in larger city have seen crime and gang violence skyrocket. When I visited them last year, Friday evening news reported several deaths from violent crime/gang activity. I thought that was for the week but was surprised to find it was just for that day! Due to many recent break-ins and burglaries in the neighborhood, both my sister and retired brother-in-law are armed at all times as county sheriff response time is often more than 20 minutes (My BIL tells me that criminals know that too with a frown). They are making plans to relocate to area with lower crime rate for their retirement.

 

[1911 guy]

Kudos to this business owner. Apologies in advance for the philosophical rant, but the reality is that civilization is merely a thin veneer we apply over basic human nature. In case you were wondering, human nature is not "basically good" as often proposed today. Deep down, intrinsic human nature is violent and selfish. Society is a safeguard against that. So is recognizing human nature for what it is and striving to be something better. Bottom line, when you walk out your front door you are surrounded by people who are as civilized as they feel they can afford to be. Cogito ergo sum armatus.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Good for you. Same here.

But sadly that's not the case for some percentage of the population. Believe me, it doesn't take much for some people to snap and get violent.

I agree and it's not a small percentage.
Maybe I misinterpreted but I took the the WHO report as blaming natural disasters for the criminal and violent behavior of individuals. The same mentality as blaming 30 round mags for mass shootings.
The fact is people loot, riot, and commit violent acts because that is what they are.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree and it's not a small percentage.
Maybe I misinterpreted but I took the the WHO report as blaming natural disasters for the criminal and violent behavior of individuals. The same mentality as blaming 30 round mags for mass shootings.
The fact is people loot, riot, and commit violent acts because that is what they are.

The fact is when the time is ripe it goes way up.

Both statements are true.

 

[JR24]

Kudos to this business owner. Apologies in advance for the philosophical rant, but the reality is that civilization is merely a thin veneer we apply over basic human nature. In case you were wondering, human nature is not "basically good" as often proposed today. Deep down, intrinsic human nature is violent and selfish. Society is a safeguard against that. So is recognizing human nature for what it is and striving to be something better. Bottom line, when you walk out your front door you are surrounded by people who are as civilized as they feel they can afford to be. Cogito ergo sum armatus.

I would argue that its not human nature. It's just nature. Even watching growing plants spread to hog the sunlight and kill competitors we see the way the world really works, without the veneer of civilization.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I would argue that its not human nature. It's just nature.

That's exactly what it is. For most civilized humans it takes a tremendous amount of pressure to cause us to abandon civilized behavior and react with violence.
For others a stiff breeze, a few degrees of temperature or a good deal at Wal-Mart on black Friday will unleash all manner of evil.

 

[Mn Fats]

My poor state. North Minneapolis is even worse. Unfortunately that's where my boy lives during the week.

 

[entropy]

I grew up not far from there (Wheelock Parkway, just the other side of 35-E) and I don't like going there unarmed. The North End and Rice St. was my dad's beat as a cop; back then it wasn't so bad (he retired from the SPPD in '91) but it has gotten rougher. I lived just off Rice St. for a few months, the only reason I felt safe is 1) I carried, and 2) My Dad stopped by several times a week in the patrol car, the people in my apartment bldg. didn't mess with me. I will venture into the area during daylight, I DO NOT go there past dark.
Tin Cup's used to be the cop hangout on Rice St; the local station house was just kitty-corner, never used to be a problem. Then they moved out of the area, and trouble moved in, albeit slowly. I used to hang out between there and the ballpark while my Dad was, um, enjoying an evening libation or two. A lot of the problem is the area now is the FEBA of two different groups of gangs, and the usual summer crime wave has gotten meaner and deadlier. They don't value life, theirs or anyone else's.

 

[armedwalleye]

I, too, grew up in the area, Dale/Como/Front, and lived off Wheelock and Arlington in early adulthood. Like Entropy, I do my business there in the daylight, armed, and do not go there at night. It's sad to see what my city has become. Used to be "working class tough", unfortunately, it's now something decidedly different. This area, for the locals, seems to have turned into what Dale/Selby was when we were kids.

 

[entropy]

Ironically, Dale and Selby isn't that bad anymore. The North End is much worse. I lived in the Apts. on the NW corner of Front and Western for a year, (1990) I worked at Joe's at the time, and walked to work. I carried either a CZ24 or a 2.5" Python. Wouldn't walk it today, at night, even armed.

 

[armedwalleye]

Dale/Selby has definitely revitalized.

I went to school with the kids, and patronized Joe's quite regularly, and still do. We have certainly crossed paths unbeknownst.

 

[Garandimal]

When federal judge forced early release of inmates from California prisons and violent crime increased 37% in the city I used to live in (we would frequently go to bed to the sound of gun shots, often entire magazines being emptied), even anti-gun coworkers bought guns and asked me to train them.

I said "Sure" but when I asked why the change, they said they were either personally victims of burglary/robbery or knew family/friends/neighbors who were. When they realized calling 911 would not help them if home invasion robbery took place, they decided to defend themselves by arming themselves.

Many of them are now CCW permit holders and supporters of the Second Amendment.

"Hell Hath No Fury... Like the Ass-kicked Liberal!"




​

GR

 

[JONWILL]

That's exactly what it is. For most civilized humans it takes a tremendous amount of pressure to cause us to abandon civilized behavior and react with violence.
For others a stiff breeze, a few degrees of temperature or a good deal at Wal-Mart on black Friday will unleash all manner of evil.

100% right. I see it in the area I live. South of me has started the decline. A couple large groceries closed because of massive theft. There is a Walmart a few miles away that quit using the blue plastic hand baskets. People would fill them up and run out.
Sad and scary what things have become. It is a wake up call to be ready in case things do shut down for a period of time.

 

[entropy]

There is a Walmart a few miles away that quit using the blue plastic hand baskets. People would fill them up and run out.

We put 'tags' in ours, I would assume all Walmarts are doing it (or supposed to), it cuts down on that.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Interesting to read about Andrew's aftermath. I was there. The winds hit 180 near my house, if I recall correctly. We were near the Hurricane Center, and they got a very high reading just before their equipment blew off the roof of the building.

A high school buddy of mine went all crewcut and fatigues in his thirties, and he was with the National Guard when they backed up the cops. He worked an area called Cutler Ridge. Not a nice place. He said the cops were so overwhelmed, they were catching looters, beating the life out of them, and turning them loose. It was their way of avoiding paperwork and maximizing their impact. I don't support it, but he said it happened.

We didn't have major problems with crime in my area, but you could drive around and see people sitting in their front yards with weapons on their laps.

I judge all storms by Andrew now, so I don't take hurricanes very seriously. If the power comes back on in less than a week, it's not a real hurricane. Andrew was so bad, we didn't have WATER for weeks. It's very unusual for the county water to go out after a storm.

My dad had a warehouse in south Dade. Across the street, there were concrete utility poles. These things were three or four feet across at the base. I saw one that had been twisted off at ground level by the wind. Nothing but a stub and some rebar left. Amazing.

 

[John_R]

This is happening everywhere.

 

[sequins]

The descent into madness and the prevalence of larger and larger gangs is why I prefer a semi automatic for carry.. The likelihood of getting robbed and only losing your money seems lessened as well, life is so cheap now and it seems people are beaten or killed for little or even no reason.

I'm still young, approaching middle age maybe, but I spent my childhood in the '90s and things were so good then. Now my home town is all drugs, homeless, etc. I never saw the bad old days like some of y'all except in the movies. I hope America changes course soon or I'm going to be getting first hand experience.

 

[dh1633pm]

I can see why they would want to arm themselves. Its so simple as to not need an explanation. After the Hurricane in NY City a friend was deployed to Staten Island with the Air National Guard. He was assigned a corner in the middle of the night and told to prevent looting and given a flash light. "Too dark in the store to get the good stuff, here let me help".

 

[drobs]

I went to college in MN - graduated in 1997. I was also in the Army Reserves during that time based at a unit in Arden Hills.
An Army buddy needed a ride home from drill, and IIRC lived in the area discussed in this article. I drove him home, both of us were wearing BDU's. He's black and I'm white. As we walked up to the door of his Aunt's house, his nieces didn't recognize him, only saw the BDU uniform and were shouting:

THE COPS ARE HERE!!
THE COPS ARE HERE!!


MN doesn't recognize my MO CCW - so I haven't been back.