strange question

[mustanger98]

Dr.Rob:

It is NOT my opinion that people with rifles (or firearms of any kind) are all 'looking for trouble'... I'm saying if YOU were sitting at the local burger shack and someone came in with a rifle slung (say across the front tac-style) and wasn't dressed like a cop/swat guy etc YOUR situational awareness would likely jump a few notches too... and YOU are a gun guy. (And a good guy I might add.)

Good to hear "(gunpackers) are hunting trouble" ain't your opinion. Now, you bring up a good point about "across the front tac-style" carry of a rifle. But if a cop/swat guy came in like that, I think I'd figure something was up anyway. I mean, living in a rural/semirural area, I don't live with that on a daily basis. The cops seem a lot more peaceable here. Although I've seen a few Feds that kinda worried me. And rifles folks are liable to sling here are mostly deer rifles, although most of them get left in the truck unless they get to showing them around. Yeah, I'm a hunter too. Showing your rifle to your buddies and whoever else is interested seems to be part of it.

Now imagine the work a day sheeple on his/her lunch hour trying to cram a few thousand calories into their harried lunch break sitting outside the same diner, they see YOU, fair minded level headed ready for anything guy, leap at the ready from his tactically sound 4WD Urban Assault Vehicle, survey the landscape with steely eyes behind mirrored/tinted shooting glasses and SLING a rifle over your shoulder to go grab some chicken fingers. Some people might call that act threatening. Someone MIGHT call 911.

This is another scene we don't generally see around here. Mostly it's good ol' boys in pickup trucks with a gun rack in the rear window. I can imagine a bunch of city yuppies reacting though. Like I said though, the time I slung my M1 to carry into the barber shop, I just put on a big grin and carried on. Nobody seemed to think anything of it, but then they knew the barbers know me.

DON'T come crying to me when you make the evening news.

Seems I heard of some woman crying/whining about her boyfriend had a gun in his truck and she was scared to death they'd wind up on the 6o'clock news.

Because, lawfully or NOT, you are trying to prove some obscure point about people's perceptions... guess what? The last guy (that anyone remembers) who took an Uzi to a Micky D's shot the place up, the last guy that visited a playground (that anyone remembers) with an AK killed a bunch of kids... are you denying the fact that the people around you with kids (or without) just MIGHT 'situationally' read you as a threat because you have a rifle?

I remember the news reports about that. If you dwell on it too much, it'll make you either want to stay out of the McDonalds (probably a healthy idea), or go armed a little heavier against the time some idiot tries it again. Yet people go there unarmed or lightly armed and have no problems whatever. Nobody I know carries an Uzi or AK, at least a Class 3 version, in public.

We don't live in Israel. We aren't talking about seeing someone in a rural area who might be involved in lawful hunting/target shooting etc.

Nope. Actually, if we're talking about me and my neighbors, we might be talking about that very thing.

We aren't talking about an SHTF scenario like NO... where I certainly can understand openly packing a long arm... just everyday getting by going to work doing your thing.

Nope we sure ain't. And there's some things being armed ain't gonna prevent, although it may increase your chances of surviving. But the odds are so small of something really really bad happening that it pretty much negates the need to carry a rifle for defensive purposes.

Mustanger98 brings up a good point ie--"I think the carrier's attitude is a factor in determining whether or not they're trouble or not."

Thanks for noticing.

But my question is what would your point be in carrying a rifle? (other than because you can) Because I certainly cannot gauge your attitude at 20 paces, nor could anyone else.

I don't know about other people's points, but I'd have a couple of points if a situation set up so it was better to carry my rifle instead of leaving it outside on my horse or in my truck.

Gannet:

I have a really hard time seeing how the free exercise of any part of the Bill of Rights in public is "threatening".

I know a lot of people do though, and not necessarily just about the 2nd Amendment. Something to ponder, if you ask me.

I agree. While the Left will holler "1st Amendment" all day long, they'll scream foul when the Middle and Right excersize the same 1st Amendment Rights. Yeah, it's something to ponder. But I don't think, from watching FOXNews analisys, that there is an answer to this problem.

 

[MikeIsaj]

I have a really hard time seeing how the free exercise of any part of the Bill of Rights in public is "threatening".

It is not threatening, and eventually you will make that point successfully. It may come at the end of a long conversation with the responding cop, or later in front of a judge. Possibly your lawyer may be successful in convincing the DA to see the light before your trial.

The reality is that in many if not most places, carrying a rifle wil get you unwanted attention. If you want to invest the time and money in being a test case, we will all appreciate it.

Pa. appears to be an open carry state. However, most LEO will tell you it isn't and when pressed to cite a statute, will usually go with disorderly conduct. DC requires them to establish your intent which is where the charge falls apart. All that being said, I do not want to be the precedent setting test case.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I just had to bring this one up, but I recall in another recent thread the discussion was about people who say "people who carry guns are looking for trouble." In my not-so-humble opinion, it don't matter whether it's a rifle, shotgun, sidearm, or anything else right down to bare hands; hunting trouble is hunting trouble and carrying for honest reasons is just that. I think the carrier's attitude is a factor in determining whether or not they're trouble or not. But if somebody just labels somebody as trouble because they're carrying, then they've just committed a grave error towards the fellow citizens. People, in general, carrying rifles in public are only bad news if you beleive everything you see on the 6o'clock news

.

Rifles are offensive weapons in almost every concievable civilian combat scenario, barring ones home. I gaurantee I would have everyones full attention if I walked into a Wal-Mart with my AR10 slung over my shoulder, and would most likely have the police called on me. And all of us permit holders out there who are naturally (or should be) more vigilant than others would definitely exhibit an elevated level of alert. This point simply cannot be argued. And I'm not talking about a group of hunters walking into a local restaurant after a day in the field (though most would leave the rifles outside). I am speaking of carrying a more ominous appearing weapon in a location where it is not expected. I'm quite sure the reaction would be very different from a scoped wood and blue bolt rifle to a black on black M4gery. If someone walked into our shop with an AK, you can bet your a$$ I would be peeking around the corner with my pistol in my hand. The thought that he might be someone trying to prove a point would be a distant second to assessing him as an immediate threat and preparing for a confrontation. You would do the same thing. Why? Human nature.

I would love it if carrying rifles in public was a common and acceptable practice. But civic sensibility prohibits most of us from doing this, which pretty much leaves the evil doers. Hence the accompanying anxiety, even from very pro-gun folks.

Call me what you want for pointing out the obvious, but it is not only criminals,media and anti's who have caused people to view AR's, AK's and the like as being a greater threat than more traditional sporting arms. They have an obvious advantage for anti-personnel use. If they didn't, we wouldn't be using them for HD instead of our Model 700 .30-06. Such weapons were created for a very specific purpose, and everyone knows what it is. The fact that they are muti-faceted is irrelevant for this conversation.

 

[nyresq]

One of the things I will always remember from my trip to israel was the sight of young guys (late teens-early twenties) dressed up to go out club hopping in tel-aviv and actually dancing on the dance floor with an M-16 slung over thier backs. Very amusing to see a guy rocking out to 90's house/techno music doing "the robot" and the "running man" with an M-16 slung over his shoulder.

 

[ghost squire]

I once carried a Kar98 Mauser into a local mall to go to a collector/militaria shop that was housed in said mall in order to get a bayonet for it. I bought the bayo, caried rifle into sandwich shop next door, had lunch and walked back to my car.

Your streets must be bathed in the blood of the innocent and recently paroled!

Think of the children!

Oh what a perfect society you live in...

 

[Nail Shooter]

No reason for me to want to carry a long gun "in public" with things the way they are currently (exception being in the wilderness somewhere). That's a lot of weight to lug around!

If I perceived an elevated level of concern, might upgrade to my 10mm Glock w/ an extra 15rd mag--maybe some heavy Double Tap ammo too. A step of concern beyond that might be to carry one in my vehicle. My usual CCW carry is a compact 9mm, and I usually feel pretty comfortable with it for the places I go. Don't feel that I have to make a statement by carrying a long gun around.

 

[Dr.Rob]

My point is not the restriction of your rights, my point is excercising those rights can at times have consequences.

I was once pulled over on my bicycle (as a kid) with a.22 across my handlebars (rural AZ) no big deal. Officer wanted to make sure I wasn't up to no good, and sent me on my merry way.

Still that was 30 some years ago.

I've walked into a sportgoods store/gun shop with a rifle slung over my shoulder...as have many of us. I've bought breakfast exercising my right to open carry in Fort Collins and LaPotre and La Junta... (granted it was hunting season) I don't think it's such a good idea in downtown Denver. I've taken rifles handguns and shotguns all over the place for photoshoots (geurilla style) for magazines and newspapers but I'm always careful.

I'm simply sugesting you use some common sense before heading out to home depot loaded for bear.

 

[mustanger98]

Call me what you want for pointing out the obvious, but it is not only criminals,media and anti's who have caused people to view AR's, AK's and the like as being a greater threat than more traditional sporting arms. They have an obvious advantage for anti-personnel use. If they didn't, we wouldn't be using them for HD instead of our Model 700 .30-06. Such weapons were created for a very specific purpose, and everyone knows what it is. The fact that they are muti-faceted is irrelevant for this conversation.

MachIVshooter, Re-read the entirety of my last post. We both, I think, have points. I don't want to call you anything, but I do beleive we're dealing with different circumstances. If if I must defend my life/home/family, if I have a deer rifle to hand rather than my Garand, the deer rifle is what I'll use. I bet most of us are that way. That's human nature too.