Strangest Mosin

Status
Not open for further replies.

paladinj

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
71
Hello all!

Background

Some of you might remember some of my past experiences with my Mosin, possessed by the souls of Sasha, Boris, Alexei, Vladimir and Sergei who were trapped under that cosmoline for over half a century only for it to be boiled off and for them drowned in German Ballistol. :uhoh: I actually feel kinda guilty about the Ballistol.

After cleaning the chamber with mineral spirits, Qtips and shotgun patches, and then grinding off a significant portion of my clubfoot-looking extractor into a nice mirror smooth Finn-looking extractor I discovered that the rifle would now slam down after pulling the trigger and a partial lowering, which before it did not, and that the action would now pop open after a small effort to lift, and then close smoothly, all operable with a pinky. Ballistol and Lubriplate 105 did the trick, together with my previous filing and polishing of camming surfaces etc...

Mechanical Condition

The Bulgarian surplus still required a little slap to let the action lift just past that last part of the turn, the only part of the bolt operation that requires any effort with/without ammo. Perhaps somebody could tell me what part to polish in order to smooth that out? :confused:

Somewhat Strange

Strange thing about the Bulgarian ammo is that it is slightly shorter than the rest of the 7.62x54r I have seen and perhaps even on the small side of all dimensions, seems to expand more to fit the chamber, the primers are also relatively deeply seated in the case and appear completely flat before firing. After firing loads of red sealant gets blown back onto the bolt face and there is always a dark black ring around the FP hole even after 10 rounds, is this normal?

When it comes out the case neck is almost completely black, never seen that before.

Very Strange


On to the very strange part. After shooting something like 30 rounds and inspecting the barrel it appears mostly clean, except for a dark line that stretches from one end of the barrel to the other, almost entirely straight. Can anybody explain this? :scrutiny: I know that if I only shoot a few rounds it starts in the chamber and only goes about 1/3rd of the way to the muzzle. After cleaning it disappears, and leaves a barrel that looks like it was never used, which is why I'm bothering with this Mosin in the first place.

Some Respite

The good news is that with commercial 7.62x54r, MFS, the bolt is 100% slick and smooth, almost as smooth as it is dry and easily operable without lowering the rifle from aim. So now I can feel like Vasiliy Zaitsev in that scene in the fountain lol. I know in the past that before I got the Mosin to its current good condition that Czech ammo was even smoother than the MFS, too bad I can't find it anywhere. Maybe Russian or Chinese will function as good.

Thank you for your time and advice.
 
I don't specifically know the Mosin, but I had a thought regarding the straight line on the bore.

Perhaps in the past someone used a dirty steel cleaning rod, and somehow rubbed it against one side of the bore; not enough damage to be noticed in a clean bore, but rough enough to cause a bit more fouling than the rest of the bore, thus showing the line.

(Don't know if this is indeed the case but it came to mind as a possible explanation.)
 
Hello,

Everything you should need about bolt ease-of-operation is here:

http://www.smith-sights.com/bolt-camming-surfaces.php

This is the result of several years of study.

I should note that one error I did make was in reference to the grease. It is a petroleum suspension. I have also since switched to Ardent Reel Butter for this purpose. Quantum Hot Sauce works well, too, as does Tetra Gun Grease. Any high-quality reel or gun grease wills smooth it right out.

Regards,

Josh
 
Last edited:
paladinj said:
Somewhat Strange

Strange thing about the Bulgarian ammo is that it is slightly shorter than the rest of the 7.62x54r I have seen and perhaps even on the small side of all dimensions, seems to expand more to fit the chamber, the primers are also relatively deeply seated in the case and appear completely flat before firing. After firing loads of red sealant gets blown back onto the bolt face and there is always a dark black ring around the FP hole even after 10 rounds, is this normal?

When it comes out the case neck is almost completely black, never seen that before.

The sealant is just the red lacquer sealant from the primer. It sticks to the firing pin and is deposited on the face when you lift the bolt handle.

The soot on the case neck is from a generous chamber and resulting low pressures.

Very Strange


On to the very strange part. After shooting something like 30 rounds and inspecting the barrel it appears mostly clean, except for a dark line that stretches from one end of the barrel to the other, almost entirely straight. Can anybody explain this? I know that if I only shoot a few rounds it starts in the chamber and only goes about 1/3rd of the way to the muzzle. After cleaning it disappears, and leaves a barrel that looks like it was never used, which is why I'm bothering with this Mosin in the first place.

It sounds like the barrel may be slightly oblong instead of round, and you have gas escaping past the bullet.

Regards,

Josh
 
I do seem to recall it was in the 6 o'clock position... or close.

Could I have damaged the throat of the chamber when I removed some of the burrs? :banghead:

The Mosin is still really loud and kicks like a mule, although I enjoy it.

I will test accuracy soon and confirm the position of the "trail".

EDIT: Still curious about what part of the bolt/receiver explains the only rough stop about 1/10th of the turn away from the completion of lifting the bolt. Does anyone know?
 
paladinj said:
EDIT: Still curious about what part of the bolt/receiver explains the only rough stop about 1/10th of the turn away from the completion of lifting the bolt. Does anyone know?

Yes, it's on the ramps which contact on the cocking piece and main bolt body. It's covered in one of those videos I referenced above.

If left unfitted, parts of the ramps on the cocking piece and bolt body go parallel to each other and you really have to smack the handle to open it.

The problem occurs in the position you describe.

Regards,

Josh
 
I do seem to recall it was in the 6 o'clock position... or close.

Could I have damaged the throat of the chamber when I removed some of the burrs? :banghead:

The Mosin is still really loud and kicks like a mule, although I enjoy it.

I will test accuracy soon and confirm the position of the "trail".

EDIT: Still curious about what part of the bolt/receiver explains the only rough stop about 1/10th of the turn away from the completion of lifting the bolt. Does anyone know?
If it's at or very near 6 o'clock and is very easily removed - could it not be merely settled residue from firing particularly "dirty" ammo/primers?


Todd.
 
Thanks for the advoce!

As for the line, I think it might be that I start cleaning by a dipping the barrel in a ballistol solution and that dissolves the carbon and it collects near the bottom when I pour the solution out at an angle. Then after its dry I see this and a few pull throughs with the boresnake and its gone. The boresbake is soaked in ballistol around the bristles.

I will check the mating of those parts at the end of the ramp and will fit if needed or polish regardless.

I will also test next time after firing if POI is still dead on at 25m and if the trailer appears after firing.
 
I have owned two Mosins, and both experienced the sticking bolt on opening. Both got sticky in the same place as yours. Then I realized what it was, at least on my guns. With steel cased ammo it was sticky, with brass cased ammo, the bolt operated smoothly. Makes no sense to me but there it was.

See if that works on your rifles.
 
Thanks for the tip tark, but it's not even that.

Commercial steel case is completely smooth, just not the surplus Bulgarian which is probably meant for PKM.

I don't think this Mosin has ever fired a single brass case haha.
 
Wished I could have helped and I tried my Mosins again today. Same thing. One is a standard, rough as a cob Russian WW2 rebuild. The other is a beautifully made New England Westinghouse that has the fit and finish of a DWM Mauser.
 
NP man I'm really close to getting this thing to where I want it. One day I will get it perfect and it has taught me an invaluable amount about firearms and bolt actions in particular.
 
It is much better now but the wide shallow scratch/polish marks on the casings are still where they are explaining the . Should I coat a spent casing with a very fine grit diamond polishing paste and use it to lap? I have 7 to 1 micron. I feel like 5 micron would do the trick.

There used to be burrs to the rear of the chamber next to the extractor and I very gently filed the off, now they became more square and flat and leave those kind of shallow marks whereas before they left deep scratches.

Should I lap?
 
Hello,

Do not lap that finely. I go 400 grit and oil with autoloaders and 800 grit and oil with manual repeating arms.

A mirror finish will allow the brass to stick. It's not as much an issue in manual repeaters as in semi- and fully-automatic, but it still can be an issue. In autos, the extractors can rip through the case head and you'll eventually lose the extractor due to this.

Regards,

Josh
 
You mentioned you think only steel cased ammo has been used in your gun. Try some brass cased ammo and see if you still have the problem. Problem with steel cases is they don't spring back after firing like brass does so they grip the chamber.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top