Mosin impossibly sticky on empty open and close
- Thread starter paladinj
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Still, fix your user options 'Location' so we have some idea of who we are trying to help, where!!
rc
rc
robmkivseries70
Member
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- Nov 5, 2005
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- 241
Good Day,
It sounds like the extractor may be a bit high and rubbing somewhere.
Best, Rob
It sounds like the extractor may be a bit high and rubbing somewhere.
Best, Rob
entropy
Member
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/faq/index.html#Q5
Sticky bolt syndrome. It is answered here, Question #5, though I use a 20 ga brush instead of a 24 ga. Much easier to find. Lots of good info on Mosins here.
I am a member of that forum, same username.
Pics would be of immense help. I work on Mosin Nagants often, and collect them. Most work on them is basic gunsmithing; it's usually a question of cost efficiency.
Sticky bolt syndrome. It is answered here, Question #5, though I use a 20 ga brush instead of a 24 ga. Much easier to find. Lots of good info on Mosins here.
I am a member of that forum, same username.
Pics would be of immense help. I work on Mosin Nagants often, and collect them. Most work on them is basic gunsmithing; it's usually a question of cost efficiency.
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One thing, make up or buy some dummy ammunition for your Mosin. Fix up or buy at least a magazine's worth of 5 rounds. Don't use live ammo for testing the function of your rifle.
If you reload, making a dummy is easy--just leave off the primer and powder. If you have to buy, not sure if you can still find snap caps in this caliber--Lyman dropped quite a few, the other source should be Brownells.
If you reload, making a dummy is easy--just leave off the primer and powder. If you have to buy, not sure if you can still find snap caps in this caliber--Lyman dropped quite a few, the other source should be Brownells.
Joshua M. Smith
Member
Snap caps for the Mosin do still exist. Saw them today at Cabela's 2 for 9.99. These are a bit sturdier than dummy rounds for cycling and you can also dry fire with them. Dummy rounds usually require a bit more work in order to dry fire from them and can dent etc.
carbine85
Member
Check the extractor and see if it's bent. Smooth out the chatter marks on all the caming surfaces but don't remove enough material to get a polished surface. Leave the striker pin spring alone. Cutting the spring isn't a fix. These rifles are actually pretty easy to fix. I have done several.
OK so I cleaned up the chamber and receiver some more and after cycling the action about 100 times I discovered the cause of the stickiness. The bluing of the inside of the receiver which was done during refurbishing that never should have been done has been rubbing off the key sticking points. This is evidenced by the ballistol I applied to the bolt turning black and there being white streaks on the inside of the receiver and corners.
It's much better now and cocks/opens pretty much like a dream, almost effortless, just a small sticking point halfway that requires effort.
Closing still gets stuck halfway down and is difficult to close when shouldering the rifle, I can do it if I slap it closed without actually catching the bolt. The burr which could be in the steel of the chamber or more likely a glob of paint seems to be what is causing this catching halfway.
I don't want to make that much of an effort on this thing, if I get a fine jewellers file some day I might file off that burr tiny amount, or apply a slight amount of lapping compound but at the moment unless it causes more problems while actually shooting I will leave it and smooth it through use.
Thank you for the advice all.
It's much better now and cocks/opens pretty much like a dream, almost effortless, just a small sticking point halfway that requires effort.
Closing still gets stuck halfway down and is difficult to close when shouldering the rifle, I can do it if I slap it closed without actually catching the bolt. The burr which could be in the steel of the chamber or more likely a glob of paint seems to be what is causing this catching halfway.
I don't want to make that much of an effort on this thing, if I get a fine jewellers file some day I might file off that burr tiny amount, or apply a slight amount of lapping compound but at the moment unless it causes more problems while actually shooting I will leave it and smooth it through use.
Thank you for the advice all.
herrwalther
Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
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- 8,127
20ga bronze brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool fixed my sticky bolt problem. The 20ga will fit, just barely if you push in some of the bristles before adding the steel wool.
armarsh
Member
The link recommends using a wooden dowel to push a stuck case out. Never put a wooden dowel down a rifle barrel.
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
a big 2nd on what RC model said. Polish the inside.... I used mothers mag wheel polish on a 20ga mop. You will ruin the mop....but it works.
DO NOT Do this in a barrel!
(OP - If in Canada, you should own an enfield too!, they dont get sticky bolts.... Ever try the mad minute with a mosin?)
DO NOT Do this in a barrel!
(OP - If in Canada, you should own an enfield too!, they dont get sticky bolts.... Ever try the mad minute with a mosin?)
Well the Enfield will be old, more used and about 4 times the cost with a lack of surplus ammo. I wasn't alive when those things were available here for cheap XD also it has less power than Mosin and lacks that Slavic appeal I like so much in guns. I'm not much of a bolt gun guy, I think it will be Mosins and high precision big bores like .338LM and .50BMG when I will be able to afford for me. I can buy a Norinco M14 made on the original USG machinery you guys gave to Taiwan for 500$, so no way I'm paying that much for a bolt action that isn't a .338 or .50 lol. A standard rifle power boltgun isn't worth more than 250$ to me, everything has to compete with the 200$ Russian SKS and 500$ M14, tough to beat.
My Mosin saga continues.
After getting dry cycling very smooth except for one sticking point on bolt close, which also prevents bolt from slamming shut when I pull trigger.
Took it out shooting and right on the first round the thing locked up like crazy. I was shooting Bulgarian silver tip ammunition, which is apparently really good stuff. I fired and beat out another 15 or so rounds of the Bulgarian out of it and then tried the limited amount of Czech plain tip ammo I had, far less stickiness, bolt opened with some effort and ejected. Both ejected fine and with amazing smoothness and force once the bolt was up.
Some rounds had fairly deep claw marks where the ejector dug into them, maybe instead of the rim it seems? I did not inspect every one because I couldn't find most.
The outside of the chamber had in two spots the copper from the coating forced on to it, it looks almost like brass coating.
The extractor is not flush with the circumference of the bolt and is visibly bent inwards, I can feel the dip with my finger too. It was not so bent it looked strange but when I was looking too see if it was flush I could see it was obviously not.
I fed from the magazine, either filling it or one round in at a time. Mosin extractors clamp on when the cartridge reaches the chamber as far as I know.
What could this be? The copper on the chamber leads me to believe that it is not a magazine issue.
Should I take the extractor out and flare it out? flare it out without removing it?
That little area for the extractor to sit next to the chamber it also seems dirty, when I closed the bolt empty and then removed it the extractor came out a bit coated, is this the cause?
This seems like a fairly uncommon issue because closing is almost completely smooth, and opening dry is even smoother.
My Mosin saga continues.
After getting dry cycling very smooth except for one sticking point on bolt close, which also prevents bolt from slamming shut when I pull trigger.
Took it out shooting and right on the first round the thing locked up like crazy. I was shooting Bulgarian silver tip ammunition, which is apparently really good stuff. I fired and beat out another 15 or so rounds of the Bulgarian out of it and then tried the limited amount of Czech plain tip ammo I had, far less stickiness, bolt opened with some effort and ejected. Both ejected fine and with amazing smoothness and force once the bolt was up.
Some rounds had fairly deep claw marks where the ejector dug into them, maybe instead of the rim it seems? I did not inspect every one because I couldn't find most.
The outside of the chamber had in two spots the copper from the coating forced on to it, it looks almost like brass coating.
The extractor is not flush with the circumference of the bolt and is visibly bent inwards, I can feel the dip with my finger too. It was not so bent it looked strange but when I was looking too see if it was flush I could see it was obviously not.
I fed from the magazine, either filling it or one round in at a time. Mosin extractors clamp on when the cartridge reaches the chamber as far as I know.
What could this be? The copper on the chamber leads me to believe that it is not a magazine issue.
Should I take the extractor out and flare it out? flare it out without removing it?
That little area for the extractor to sit next to the chamber it also seems dirty, when I closed the bolt empty and then removed it the extractor came out a bit coated, is this the cause?
This seems like a fairly uncommon issue because closing is almost completely smooth, and opening dry is even smoother.
Have you tried removing the bolt and dropping a round into the chamber by hand?
This could be a nexus of salvation (up next list)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPft5dPDqek
This could be a nexus of salvation (up next list)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPft5dPDqek
Extremely interesting.
So I put a fired round in the chamber, made by MFS unfortunately I did not bring any surplus with me, and it got stuck in, I couldn't shake it out. Since it was fired I slid the bolt on pushed forwards and back and the cartridge stuck to the bolt but did not fall to the side, it stayed stuck on the extractor.
Could be that this is just because it is an old dirty MFS case that is slightly rusted, but there is one more thing.
This case had a clawmark that scraped the steel right up and left a visible burr on the case. This clawmark is about 1/4 of the way up from the rim and way past where I would expect the extractor to ever engage. It is a big shiny streak with a curled burr of steel on one end of it.
Does this mean I have a bad burr in my chamber? What to do?
So I put a fired round in the chamber, made by MFS unfortunately I did not bring any surplus with me, and it got stuck in, I couldn't shake it out. Since it was fired I slid the bolt on pushed forwards and back and the cartridge stuck to the bolt but did not fall to the side, it stayed stuck on the extractor.
Could be that this is just because it is an old dirty MFS case that is slightly rusted, but there is one more thing.
This case had a clawmark that scraped the steel right up and left a visible burr on the case. This clawmark is about 1/4 of the way up from the rim and way past where I would expect the extractor to ever engage. It is a big shiny streak with a curled burr of steel on one end of it.
Does this mean I have a bad burr in my chamber? What to do?
45_auto
Member
paladinj said:
1) Put the gun far away so you're not tempted to fool around with the gun using fired rusty cases.
2) Get some real ammo.
3) Get the gun back from it's far away place.
4) Go shoot the gun and see how it works with actual ammo.
fireman 9731
Member
Try to take some decent pictures of whats going on. That might help us diagnose the problem. My first guess is the extractor is binding on something, but you could have an issue inside the bolt as well.
tark
Member
This whole problem seems to arise from trying to use a bolt in a rifle, a bolt that was made for a different rifle..... You might never get satisfactory results. I have two 1891 Argentine Mausers, both made by DWM. They are even close to one another timewise. Both have the same letter prefix
Each bolt will enter the other's receiver, but very stiffly. Neither bolt will turn to lock up. It is a simple case of the bolt matched to the gun during manufacture. Another bolt will not work, at least not without a lot of effort spent. You decide whether it is worth that effort.
Each bolt will enter the other's receiver, but very stiffly. Neither bolt will turn to lock up. It is a simple case of the bolt matched to the gun during manufacture. Another bolt will not work, at least not without a lot of effort spent. You decide whether it is worth that effort.
entropy
Member
Tark; while that may be true for Mausers, which were built by Teutonic uberengineers, Mosins were designed by S.I. Mosin in the Russian tradition; loose tolerances to survive the Russian winters, and still work. Russian-made firearms have a history of being robust, solid as a tank, and loose as hell. Yes, they lock up well enough in critical areas, (Bolt head/reciever, cartridge/chamber) but they are not the precision machines the Germans took to Stalingrad and died with when they malfunctioned on them.
Even when they loosened tolerances with subsequent models, (StG44, MG42) they were still overengineered. (Look at a Haenel model StG44 once)
M.T. Kalashnikov looked at the StG44 and said to himself, "Now how can I adapt this to Russian conditions and methods of manufacture?" And *BANG* the AK-47 was born.
No, I doubt paladinj's problem is from the bolt coming from another rifle and not fitting. If this were the case, most of the Mosins around would have that problem, as during two World Wars and the subsequent refurb program follwing the second one, lots of Mosin Nagants have different bolts than the ones they left the arsenal with. Most of mine do, and I've noted this among my fellow memebers of the Russian Mosin Nagant forums also. Perhaps paladinj might post his quandry over there?
http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/
I am entropy on that forum also.
Even when they loosened tolerances with subsequent models, (StG44, MG42) they were still overengineered. (Look at a Haenel model StG44 once)
M.T. Kalashnikov looked at the StG44 and said to himself, "Now how can I adapt this to Russian conditions and methods of manufacture?" And *BANG* the AK-47 was born.
No, I doubt paladinj's problem is from the bolt coming from another rifle and not fitting. If this were the case, most of the Mosins around would have that problem, as during two World Wars and the subsequent refurb program follwing the second one, lots of Mosin Nagants have different bolts than the ones they left the arsenal with. Most of mine do, and I've noted this among my fellow memebers of the Russian Mosin Nagant forums also. Perhaps paladinj might post his quandry over there?
http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/
I am entropy on that forum also.
You probably do. but without good photos to look at, I couldn't diagnose that. I recommend taking it to a gunsmith to have it checked and repaired if so.
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tark
Member
Good point, Entropy. I just pulled out my New England Westinghouse Mosin and A friends Mosin which was WW2 issue. The bolts interchanged perfectly! And fired without incident. With all of that steel cased ammo out there, headspace wouldn't be much of an issue anyway. A steel case is far stronger than a brass one; it would probably hold in an excessive headspace situation, whereas a brass case would probably blow.
I just learned something. This is why I love this forum.
I just learned something. This is why I love this forum.
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