"straw purchase" question

[yesit'sloaded]

I believe that in theory it is impossible to commit a straw purchase involving a minor child as long as they can legally posses the weapon. The minor child technically is "owned" by you and they have no money of their own because you own it all in a legal sense. So buying 16 year old Jonny a .22 with money he saved is ok because you as his parent own all of his money anyway. Correct?

 

[another okie]

No. Children are human beings and are not owned by anyone. They do not have all the rights of adults, but that just makes them prohibited persons under the law.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

If you even *hint* that you are buying a weapon as a gift, some clerk at a chain store will likely be glad to babble some nonsense about straw purchses ad nauseum. It's amazing--employers hire people to sell guns and then train them to say 'no' for rather trivial reasons to prevent potential liability.

Several years ago my wife and I were both in GM buying a rifle. She was filling out the paper work and we wanted to put the purchase on my credit card (an account SHE IS ALSO on) . But I pulled the card from my wallet. The clerk about died and wailed about 'straw purchases' for five minutes.

She put it on a different card as we were buying the rifle as a gift and didn't care to cancel the deal over the 'straw purchase' performance.

All this being said, I would not gift a weapon to anyone I was not 100% sure about; if you wouldn't trust them with your life, don't hand them a weapon.

 

[General Geoff]

He is prohibited from making the purchase himself. He gave you the money to buy it for him because he can't buy it himself.

Why is there even any question about this? If you buy it and give it to him (and it isn't illegal for an 18-year old to possess a firearm in your state, it's okay. A gift is a gift. If he provides the money ... it ain't a gift.

What's to stop someone from purchasing said gun, then "paying" the recipient the amount of money that the gun costs to, say, go to the car and fetch a box for them, and then technically gifting said box's contents to the recipient?

If straw purchases are to be made so technical, then there are certainly technical ways around the distinction. Only a judge and/or jury can decide whether the technicalities on either side of the argument will hold water.

 

[Bookworm]

Even a used handgun will require a FFL transfer, private sale or not. And you are permitted to gift immediate family with a firearm without the paperwork.

A gift with a long gun to whomever you choose is ok, but a handgun to non-immediate family will still require FFL transfer.

 

[General Geoff]

Bookworm, the FFL transfer requirement for handguns is only applicable in Pennsylvania. The original poster is in Florida.

 

[divemedic]

All I can tell you is that if you buy the gun with the intention of reselling it, you are probably dealing in firearms. I can't put it any plainer than that.

I disagree. See the law, it does not mention anything about "if you buy the gun with the intention of reselling it"

(11) The term “dealer” means
(A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail,
(B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or
(C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

Being "engaged in the business" is more than a one time buy of a pistol for a family member. Otherwise, a one time sale from your private collection would also make you a dealer. Too many people sweat too much stuff. Gun owners are one paranoid bunch sometimes.

 

[General Geoff]

Too many people sweat too much stuff. Gun owners are one paranoid bunch sometimes.

There's a reason behind that, and it's called the BATF.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

What you're describing is not a straw purchase but a violation of 922(d).
[quote="USC Title 18, Chapter 44, §922](d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
...[/quote]

and I'd think it would be nearly impossible to prove that you didn't know your spouse was a felon in a court of law.


I don't know about the state level.

 

[basicblur]

Several years ago my wife and I were both in GM buying a rifle. She was filling out the paper work and we wanted to put the purchase on my credit card (an account SHE IS ALSO on) . But I pulled the card from my wallet. The clerk about died and wailed about 'straw purchases' for five minutes.

Don't know that I can blame him for that-while it may be BS, at's pretty much what happened in some of Bloomberg's sting operations against gun shop owners recently.

 

[blackcash88]

[quote="yesit'sloaded]So buying 16 year old Jonny a .22 with money he saved is ok because you as his parent own all of his money anyway. Correct?[/quote]

Umm, nope... At 16, I had a job and worked hard for my money. I'd be goddamned if my parents or anyone else tried to "own" my money.

 

[hksw]

If you even *hint* that you are buying a weapon as a gift, some clerk at a chain store will likely be glad to babble some nonsense about straw purchses ad nauseum. It's amazing--employers hire people to sell guns and then train them to say 'no' for rather trivial reasons to prevent potential liability.

Several years ago my wife and I were both in GM buying a rifle. She was filling out the paper work and we wanted to put the purchase on my credit card (an account SHE IS ALSO on) . But I pulled the card from my wallet. The clerk about died and wailed about 'straw purchases' for five minutes.

IMO, what was done was much more than just a 'hint'. I do not fault the clerk for questioning the event. How is he to know definitively what the actual situation of the purchase is, he has never seen you before.

If you were an FFL, had someone fill out the 4473, then had someone else whip out their card to pay for it, how would you have handled it? This, of course, would be under surveillance. The "potential liability" is a felony with jail time, fines, and loss of business.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

OK--not the best example. We are having an ongoing friendly banter during the whole affair. We were buying a 45/70 Gov. Marlin Guide Gun as a gift.
Not to stereotype but not your usual 'straw purchase' gun.

When I produced 'MY' card (remember--a joint account) I also offered my FOID (gun) card also.
The hystrionics never abated.

So, if my wife had pulled the card from HER wallet--would that have made a difference? How about if I pulled out our check book and HANDED it to my wife?

I mean, legally, SHE was going to sign the charge slip/ signature capture.

It wasn't a big deal--but like the way we 'look for terrorists' if we take the detection of straw purchases to bizarre extremes we miss those actually engaged in the practice.

And Bloomberg.....ughhh. You'd think with ALL THAT MONEY he could find better ways of entertaining himself.

 

[Art Eatman]

The OP's question has been answered to his satisfaction...

Enuf.