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Strong safe---where

Discussion in 'Shooting Gear and Storage' started by BIGGBAY90, Oct 1, 2010.

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  1. BIGGBAY90

    BIGGBAY90 Member

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    What is a great safe just to stop (slow down a crow bar,ax)a thief, i do not care about fire proof just a great(best) solid gun safe--i now have a liberty (11 yrs old) safe thats fine with inside hinges and 12ga but many people say 12ga is weak.
     
  2. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    What is your definition of solid? 11 gauge? 10 gauge? 2 inch plate?
     
  3. ArmedLiberal

    ArmedLiberal Member

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    You can cut into 10ga with a fire ax or power tools. 7 or 8 ga, not so much.

    Photos of a fire ax attack cutting into a gun safe.

    http://www.sturdysafe.com/gaugethicknesswar.htm


    Great source of gun safe info and purchasing decisions.

    http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html
     
  4. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

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    If you are concerned about the safe being a weak link, perhaps install a series of multi-layers to compliment it. These might include motion sensors, cameras, security system, dogs, alligator pit and electric barb wire fence.....OK, maybe the last two are a bit over the top.
     
  5. BIGGBAY90

    BIGGBAY90 Member

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    There has to be a safe that the average joe with an ax or crow bar cannot get into, is there.
     
  6. woodsoup

    woodsoup Member

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    Probably, but not one the "average" Joe can afford.
     
  7. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

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    Almost any safe can be defeated given time,but remember most B&E artists are snatch and grab. They are only interested in what they can grab/carry out in their hands in the limited time they have which is usually 5-10 min. Unless you live in a neighborhood with multi million dollar homes a ggod heavy safe will be more than enough. The safe I purchased cost me $800 includeing delivary weighs 400 lbs empty and took 2 guys the size of Lou Ferrigno to get into my house, I figure it weighs 600 lbs now full good luck trying to get it out.
     
  8. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    Bolt it down. I'm 6', 140, and can easily move a 600 pound safe quickly and by myself without using any fancy equipment. If I wasn't worried about scratching your walls or floors, or causing other damage, I could move a 600 pound safe all the way through a house in less than a minute.

    Although it is uncommon for a safe in a house to grow legs, it does happen. When it does happen, it's usually dragged out and tossed in a truck. Even if they don't take the safe, we often see them tipped over to make them easier to beat on. This not only increases the odds of them opening the safe, but it will also damage firearms even if they are not successful in getting it open.

    You can pretty much cut anything with the word gauge behind it with power tools. Even 1/4" can be cut quickly with a circular saw running the right blade.

    This is why even the lowest burglary rated safe made out of steel plate uses 1" plate walls.
     
  9. Ole Coot

    Ole Coot Member

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    My safes are the final resistance. My home is isolated somewhat and lights, motion detectors, good locks and a dog will slow a person down. I may be a little paranoid but I always stay alert, located on the end of a dead end road. The "locals", good and bad know me and know it would be dangerous to sneak around here. I do have my safes bolted down, in the basement yet keep handguns, shotguns & rifles at strategic locations. No children around and safety is on pistols only, I only need to rack the shotgun or lever the rifle and the sound of a pump shotgun is very clear to most folks.
     
  10. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    BIGGBAY;

    I sell Graffunder safes. I do believe that something of theirs will meet your stated needs. For instance, earlier this year I had a unit come into the shop that I'd sold about 5 years ago. Due to some less-than-optimum circumstances, the safe was subjected to having a .375 H&H magnum fire in it. The muzzle of the full-length barrel was within inches of the top when it went off. The bullet did not exit the safe. The owner indicated to me that ammunition involved was a full power round.

    Considering the owner's privacy, and possible legal ramifications, I will not be providing any more details. But I also would attest to the above in a court of law.

    900F
     
  11. calvin13

    calvin13 Member

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  12. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    What gauge of steel stopped that bullet? =P

    To put that in perspective, I have photos of a regular gun safe that was shot using a common caliber hunting rifle. It made several nice holes in the safe, including two through the door, the hard plate, the lock, the rear panel of the door, and into the contents of the safe.
     
  13. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Aiabdj;

    It was a Graffunder. Ya know, I just spent five minutes having fun with the description, but deleted it anyway.

    OK, the rifle discharged in an upright position while in the safe. From the inside out, here's the layers of construction: Synthetic crushed velvet cloth, glue, 16 gauge sheet steel inner wall, 1.5 inches of a proprietary concrete mixture, 1/2 inch of A36 plate steel, gesso, primer, paint. There was a barely noticable bump on the exterior of the safe, the bullet didn't even come close to penetration.

    The rifle was not positioned in a corner, the bullet hit probably at least 8 inches out from any other plate.

    900F
     
  14. BIGGBAY90

    BIGGBAY90 Member

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    Wow thats great but this is what i'm looking for-----*****a safe that can stop a crow bar or ax from opening the door or choping throught the sides/front/back ***thats all**** what is good for that. HELP HELP
     
  15. a1abdj

    a1abdj Member

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    A safe with a UL TL-15 burglary rating. This rating certifies that a safe will resist entry for a period of at least 15 minutes against all common hand tools (hammers, pry bars, chisels, etc.), power tools (drills, saws, grinders, etc.) and pressure applying devices.

    Although it does not have a UL rating, an E rate safe will have similar construction. AMSEC offers a factory built TL-15 gun safe, and Graffunder offers a factory built E rate gun safe.
     
  16. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Bigbay;

    The point I was making was that if a .375 H&H bullet can't get out, nobody swinging an axe is going to get in. Going the other way, that's a half inch of A36 plate steel backed by another inch and a half of conrete, and that's backed by yet another layer of steel.

    Or, using conservative figures from Hornady #6, a 270 grain .375 H&H bullet driven to 2600 fps develops over 4000 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle. Over two tons of energy. I strongly doubt that any single person can bring anything remotely close to that level of energy to bear using a portable lever type swinging tool. Which includes an axe, crowbar, spud bar, matlock, pickaxe, etc, etc.

    FWIW, a TL rating only covers the door. If the rating were to apply to all sides of the safe in question, the designation would be TL15X6.

    900F
     
  17. BIGGBAY90

    BIGGBAY90 Member

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    Please all give me names....names or websites so i can check out they order or pick-up
     
  18. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Bigbay;

    Go to: www.graffundersafes.com. You can also find dealers on the site, which will include us, Central Lock & Key, in Great Falls Montana. If you're interested in a quote, please PM me, I'm usually very competitive in the true safe market.

    900F
     
  19. BIGGBAY90

    BIGGBAY90 Member

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    I see no price and !wow! Are those the weight of some of the safes 5400 lbs,,,,,,,,,i need w 20-26, h-60in, d-20 0r 22in AND WHO IS AMERSC OR STURY
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2010
  20. ArmedLiberal

    ArmedLiberal Member

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    https://www.patriotsafe.com/

    http://www.mr-locks.com/products/165/GUN_SAFES/

    http://acmesafenewyork.com/acatalog/Gun_Safes.html

    http://www.ftknox.com/redesign/safes/legend.htm

    http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes.htm = Amsec, American Security

    Sturdy Safe - http://www.sturdysafe.com/ Lots of safe buying info here

    http://www.libertysafesofny.com/

    Your nearby Graffunder Dealer is:

    Advanced Arms LLC
    81 S. Main Strret, Suite A
    Pittston, PA 18640
    570-655-4867 - [email protected]


    Here's a good introduction to shopping for a gun safe:

    http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotGunSafes13-3.htm

    Try Googling New York Gun Safe or http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html lists just about all the American Safe Manufacturers listed
     
  21. BIGGBAY90

    BIGGBAY90 Member

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    Great sites, so many and all say they offer great protection---and wow did you see fort knotts safe----but i just want thick steel and i see sturdy safe is 7 gauge but some company say 1 1/2 inch steel body( i don't know if that is true) but i guess its what i pick
     
  22. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Bigbay;

    Yes, Graffunder will build you a safe with a 1.5" thick plate steel door accompanied with 1" walls on every other surface. In fact, Graffunder will custom build whatever you want, within reason. You want six inch thick steel shelves, you got it. Why you want it is your business as long as the funds clear.

    900F
     
  23. ArmedLiberal

    ArmedLiberal Member

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    Check to see if that 1 1/2 inch steel body spec is actually counting the dry wall fire protection as part of the measurement.

    1 1/2 inch steel is fantastically heavy and expensive, like $10,000 and up.

    Here's a great illustration: http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/faq/Protection_Levels.html
     
  24. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Armed;

    Please do go to: www.graffundersafes.com. You'll get an education. Yes, if I say a Graffunder has a 1.5" or 6" steel door, that's just the solid plate steel. Same for the other five surfaces other than the door. The steel wall is backed with 1.5" of a proprietary concrete mixture, which is backed with gauge steel. Goes like this: B level safe has a .5" thick solid plate door & the walls are 1/4" plate backed with the aforesaid 1.5" of concrete. C level safe is a 1" thick door & the walls are .5" plate. E level is 1.5" door & walls are 1" of steel, then backed, etc. F level incorporates a laminate layer of manganese steel on all 6 surfaces, which is an effective deterrent to a torch attack. And it goes up from there.

    900F
     
  25. adirondack

    adirondack member

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    Sturdy safe makes a great safe that will not be broken into with a crowbar or not likely a fire ax either. They can be bought without fire lining if you like to save money.

    www.sturdysafe.com
     
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