"Stuck in the 1700's" (PA)

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K-Romulus

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This op-ed is from a NJ(?) public high school teacher. Never mind the circular logic, it is his premise and his position of authority that concern me.

Since his views have undoubtedly been spoon-fed to his students for the past 18 years (students who probably do not get a countermessage from their families), this is why we 2A-supporters are probably doomed to the dustbin of history in one generation or less. I have seen this effect on my own younger family members thanks to their "schooling."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/opinion/local1/15275880.htm

Stuck in the 1700s

By Tom Derby

Two of my former students were shot dead in separate incidents - not in the streets but at parties, and not by drug dealers but by other students they knew.

Another of my students was knifed to death in a dispute over ownership of a handgun. Wouldn't it be nice if students had such a sense of ownership in their education?

A few A-graded papers still in my files bring back my worst memory of all.

A good athlete and an A student in ninth grade, Len used to express fascination with guns and gangs. His departure from school was not sudden but gradual. He would greet me politely at his locker in the morning even after, as I later learned, he was in deep trouble.

I lost track of Len, and a colleague brought me the bad news before the papers got it: He had become a professional assassin, and his own gang killed him and set his body on fire in a football field in North Camden.

While I am continually saddened by gun tragedies - Philadelphia is experiencing a spate of them - it is not possible for me to know the devastation of parents who have lost children this way.

Why do we want to go on killing our children?

Just as President Lincoln in an 1863 speech looked back in sadness to the failure of past presidents to address the moral issue of slavery, it is time for us to search our past for the roots of the absurdly easy availability of firearms in our nation.

"Dirty Harry" Callahan may have contributed to our gun culture, but he didn't invent it.

A fundamental language skill we teach our students - context - is required to understand our predicament.

We cite the Second Amendment and see ourselves as proud individuals jealously defending our individual rights. The shotgun is still strapped to the door of the pickup. Bullets blaze through the streets.

But let's look at the context in which the Founding Fathers had to operate.

When in 1791 James Madison led the adoption of 10 amendments to our Constitution, formally recognized today as our Bill of Rights, there were fresh memories of the brutality suffered by the first Americans as they tried to carve out a nation independent of a foreign king.

They remembered the British and Hessian thugs who had roamed the countryside, ready to steal cows and pigs, quarter themselves in whatever homes they chose, violate women, and use their weapons at will.

The Second Amendment reads, "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

American farmers were the standing militia of the day. There were no police or National Guard, and only the beginnings of an army. These were the minutemen - brave, tough men and women ready to fight at a moment's notice.

The historical context of this part of the Bill of Rights - the recurring nightmare of Redcoat soldiers - shows that every American family needed a musket standing against the wall, ready to load and ready to kill.

Not so today. The premise of the Second Amendment, the need for minutemen, no longer exists. In a free society we must rely on the police. We have more important rights to fight for than the right to bear arms.

I do not own a firearm. If I did, I would be loath to call it my "constitutional right."

The Second Amendment will not go down easily, but go down it must. Marketing of weapons is too profitable an enterprise for attitudes to change overnight, but change they must.

When wolves as well as human predators roamed freely in the Northeast, one was entitled to defend one's family and property with firearms.

Circumstances have changed; we need to reconsider that entitlement. Why do we want America to continue being the murder capital of the Western world?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Derby, of Newtown Square, has taught reading and English at Woodrow Wilson High School in Camden for 18 years.
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In a free society we must rely on the police.
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Yes, of course. Never mind the courts have made it clear, time after time, that the police have no duty to protect individuals. And what do you want to bet this character typed this missive in an air-conditioned office, thousands of miles removed, of course, from places like the post-Katrina Gulf Coast? It's absolutely amazing what the people who run the broadsheets are printing these days. And they wonder why newspaper subscriptions are going through the floor.
 
the moonbats own the public educational system, i'm sorry to say...K-12 and higher ed...
private schools or homeschooling are the only saving grace...

i work for an educational company in the People's Republic, and i see it directly everyday in the "clients" and "programs" i deal with...its critical for parents who believe differently than the educrats to ingrain in their children the truths and morals that won't be taught in the public school system...

my own parents took me at a young age to revolutionary war and civil war sites...it developed an interest in early american history for me, and over the years that led to my strong beliefs in the RKBA...
 
When wolves as well as human predators roamed freely in the Northeast, one was entitled to defend one's family and property with firearms.
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I don't think circumstances have changed. Human predators still roam freely...:barf:
 
Three quick reactions.

1) Another typical poorly-written, all-emotional "argument" from an anti-gunner. Surprise, surprise.

2) Wow, a New Jersey public school English teacher who's anti gun. Who'd a thunk it? (I write these words as a college English instructor myself.).

3) The most disturbing, depressing part of the whole post is what K-Romulus wrote.

"this is why we 2A-supporters are probably doomed to the dustbin of history in one generation or less. I have seen this effect on my own younger family members thanks to their "schooling."


Good Lord.

I've been hearing gunnies predict that it's all over in just a few years, and that we're doomed in only a generation or so for almost 30 years.

I couldn't have been more than seven or eight years old when I read a fictional piece in Field&Stream magazine (That'd be 1977 or 1978).

In this story "Grandpa" was burying his shotguns and rifles out in a field with "Grandson" because they'd all finally been banned, and he wasn't going to let the police confiscate and melt down his hunting guns.

That was about 28 years ago. You know what? I'm still waiting on the inevitable end.

In the intervening 28 years, I cannot count how many times I've heard gunnies and gun dealers moan and sigh that it's only "a few more years" and it'll all be over in "about one more generation" and that we're "all doomed" and it's hopeless, etc. etc. :barf:

Instead of moaning and sighing, maybe gunnies ought to do something else like teach folks how to shoot? Or take non-shooters shooting?

Oh no. It's just so much more fun and self-satisfying to sit around the gloomily predict the end that's just around the corner. Because we're doomed, you see? It's hopeless. It's just a matter of a few years.

Of course, we get to stylize ourselves as the last romatic holdouts, the only folks who aren't "sheeple," the rugged individualists who cling to the hopelessly doomed romantic idealism of owning personal weapons.

But, of course, we're doomed, because the antis own the schools and the media, and it's just a matter of time. We're doomed.

:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

One English teach in NJ writes an editorial, and it's all over and we're doomed?

Give. Me. A. Friggin. Break.

I know I have probably angered some folks.

But I get really angry every time I hear a gunnie gloomily predict the end, and say we're doomed.

How about doing something about it?

How about writing an editorial back at this idiot? How about taking some newbies to a range? How about getting an instructor certification and starting a local air rifle team? How about doing just about anything?

But what difference does it make? We're doomed anyway. It'll all be over in just a few more years. Maybe one generation at the most.....:rolleyes:

If this is the attitude out there, then it doesn't matter what the antis do or don't do.

People who believe they are doomed and it's inevitable that they are going to lose cannot be saved. Such people, however, easily snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

hillbilly
 
Did I miss something?

I may have missed the paragraph where this concerned teacher bemoans the lack of parental involvement in these dead "children's lives.

Or is it still politically incorrect to ask where the father and mother were when these people joined the gang and became an assassin?

The lack of respect for human life and the law isn't sugically implanted the first time some would-be thug picks up a gun. Respect for the law and decency is taught by parents, ministers, teachers and others. His tragically dead young people never learned that lesson and it's not the fault of Smith & Wesson or Glock.

I'll set aside his twisted view of what the militia is and what "well regulated" means in an 18th century context. My daughter is a public school teacher in Chicago and she knows darn well what the entire BoR means, 1 through 10. That it grants NO rights, but restricts the governments power on certain God given rights. She learned about it the old fashioned way, arguing with me at the kitchen table when she was growing up.

I wonder how he'd react to a parallel article on how the internet was never envisioned by our forefathers, so that whole first amendment free speech thing ... is probably obsolete now too?

There is no excuse for ignorance of this level in a teacher beyond his own willfullness to stay that way.

In the long run he's just another wistful moonbat gazing at his tattered '60's psychedelic posters dreaming of a world full of peace, love and harmony that never was and never will be.
 
HB: good points, BUT

I write rebuttals to 90% of the anti-gun-owner hit pieces I come across. About 30% of my rebuttals get acknowledged and even fewer get published. If a rebuttal gets written, but no fence-sitter gets to read it, "does it make a sound"?

I try to get people to the range when I can, but most people I come across are firmly in the anti-gun-owner camp. It is a product of my location: suburban DC.

My own kid brother in VA Beach, VA, of all places, was "turned out" after one college-level sociology class where his teacher showed a Mike Wallace documentary on the history of US gun control. I did enough damage control after that to at least get my bro' to see the nonsense behind the so-called AWB, but he is still firmly now in the "license and registration" and "handgun = penile compensator" camps. He is now 20 years old and a regular voter. This NJ guy has probably done this x18000 over the past 18 years.

I hear you about overblowing the whole "sky is falling" thing, but from where I sit it is more reality than overkill. Talking to people around here (where most of the voters in two states live) on this issue is like talking to a brick wall. These are supposedly educated people with critical thinking skills, undoubtedly the products of teachers like this NJ guy. Maybe it's my perspective, but that's what it's like here. That's where my concern for the future comes from.

And it's not just the NE. Look at other states where gun bans (like Colorado and Ohio) are put into effect, or modest pro-gun-owner bills like CCW in restaurants get ridiculed and killed.

I'm not throwing in the towel, just looking at the sewage on the floor and the broken pipeline spewing it out and wondering if we have enough buckets to keep bailing before we drown.
 
In a free society we must rely on the police.
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If such a small segment of the population has you by the short and curlies, how long do you imagine your freedom will last? Wait until the needs of your "free society" conflict with the needs of the police. Then you will see just what you are free to do and not do.
 
hillbilly, excellent post.

K-Romulus, if you were anywhere other than suburban DC, it probably wouldn't seem so bleak.

The only comment I have about the initial article is that working in the gun industry, I missed the part where we were massively profitable. :p Since the entire US gun industry is the size of Home Depot, I think many of us missed that memo.
 
Actually, Hillbilly, I think it's well written; just poorly thought out.:neener:

American farmers were the standing militia of the day. There were no police or National Guard, and only the beginnings of an army. These were the minutemen - brave, tough men and women ready to fight at a moment's notice.

The historical context of this part of the Bill of Rights - the recurring nightmare of Redcoat soldiers - shows that every American family needed a musket standing against the wall, ready to load and ready to kill.

Not so today. The premise of the Second Amendment, the need for minutemen, no longer exists. In a free society we must rely on the police. We have more important rights to fight for than the right to bear arms.
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He misses the point that the very Founding Fathers he cites knew that the government they were then establishing would not--could not--be responsible for every citizen's safety.

TC
 
In a free society we must rely on the police. We have more important rights to fight for than the right to bear arms.
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Yeah, like the "right" of teachers' unions to run state governments.
 
k-rom, it isnt as bad as you think, at least not entirely so.

I was raised in a completely anti-gun household and went through the anti-gun NYC public school system. Yet despite this I developed an interest in firearms and have succeeded in turning everyone in my family neutral and turning one of my siblings pro-gun (I wont say which in case my parents read this).

I try whenever I can to wake people out of dependent mindsets and get them to embrace the concept of armed self-help. I also try to get people involved in shooting sports whenever I can. But Florida is already a very good environment for turning antis. "But almost everyone in here is carrying a gun, so where is the violence?" is sort of the ultimate argument crusher, thanks to years of widespread CCW.

I think most of the problem in DC (and other anti areas) is that because people have no experience with firearms, scaring and fooling them with outlandish tales is very easy. Critical thinking is only worthwhile if you have good data to start with- if all you ever hear is that 50 bmg = homing nuclear missile, the idea of shooting down an airliner with one no longer seems laughable. Think of how easily many of us were fooled by the stupid anti-drug propaganda as children. How many of us still are...
 
While I am continually saddened by gun tragedies - Philadelphia is experiencing a spate of them - it is not possible for me to know the devastation of parents who have lost children this way.
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The only tradegy related to guns is that every citizen doesn't own them and respect the right to carry them.

Why do we want to go on killing our children?
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This reminds me of a Nasrudin story.

Nasrudin was at the inn with his friends, listening to a book-learned man who claimed to be able to answer any question.

"You can answer any question at all?" asked Nasrudin.

"Yes, I can!" replied the man.

"I think I have a question you can't answer," said Nasrudin.

"Ask! I guarantee I can answer it."

"Very well: why have you been stealing into my house by my window each night?"

So, why do we want to go on killing our children...? Well, we don't. But we aren't killing them now, so...

In a free society we must rely on the police.
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This has me rolling! :D If you must rely on the police, how are you free?!
 
I find it fascinating that Mr. Derby makes an emotional plea to remove the right to possess firearms and protect oneself as being outdated, outmoded by our modern society. It's also interesting he doesn't feel the way about knives. Or bats, rocks, fists. But I forget, there are no more human predators. Just other people.
 
Sindawe

Sindawe
thank you very much for Mr. Derby's email. I will be droping him a polite note on his commentary and I do know it won't do any good but I still wish to educate him a little and highlight the flaws in his commentary.
 
My letter to Mr. Derby

Dear Mr. Derby,

I respectfully disagree with your opinion. You say we must rely on the police. What about the hundreds of New Orleans Police officers that deserted their posts after Hurricane Katrina devestated the area? How were the affected residents of New Orleans supposed to rely on them? What about the hundreds of Los Angeles Police officers that stood by and did nothing as rioters and looters ransacked the city during riots in LA of 1992? How were the affected residents of Los Angeles supposed to rely on them? Even in the absence of a crisis, the police simply can't be everywhere at once. To rely on them for your own personal safety is to take a greater risk than being responsible for your own well-being.

Furthermore, a society that is largely or completely unarmed, save for the police, is the definition of a Police State. History has shown that Police States are doomed to failure. It is human nature to fight against perceived oppression. To surmise that our nation, with its 230 year old tradition of being armed so as not to be oppressed, needs to instead have a few uniformed men among the masses be charged with gaurding the well being and property of all is unrealistic and in my honest opinion un-American.

I would like to add that human predators still roam free. The answer is not to take away means of self defense for "prey". This is illogical. In fact, the cities in this country that are routinely labeled as the "Murder Capital's of the U.S." have the strictest gun control laws. How do you explain that? For example, Illinois and Pennsylvania have nearly identical populations, both around 12 million. Illinois does not allow its citizens to carry weapons concealed at all. Pennsylvania does, and yet every year Illinois has more firearm homicides. Illinois, and specifically Chicago, has some of the most restrictive laws on guns nationwide. And some of the highest murder rates. How would you explain it?

Finally, firearm ownership is not an entitlement as you assert in your article. It's not an entitlement any more then you writing your article is an entitlement. These are rights, sir. Granted to us in our Constitution. And neither of these rights are "going down" unless they all go down and we write a new Constitution. I am sorry for the experiences you've had lately with people you've known personally being killed. I do understand where your argument comes from. However, please do not blame the gun. Blame the environment that produces the criminals that use the gun illegaly.

Respectfully,

xxxxx
 
In a free society we must rely on the police. We have more important rights to fight for than the right to bear arms
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Words fail me in expressing the shear ignorance of this dangerous individual.

I say dangerous because you know his bias is being preached in his class.

Although in the sewer that is known as Camden, most of his students are already carrying and probably laugh at his comments.

When wolves as well as human predators roamed freely in the Northeast, one was entitled to defend one's family and property with firearms.
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By his own account, nothing has changed and especially in Camden has gotten worse.
 
I'd like to give hillbilly a standing ovation. :)

New blood is where its at. And honestly, things are a lot better off than they were a decade ago I think. The momentum is slow, but it is still on our side I'd say.
 
I am continually saddened by gun tragedies
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I am continually saddened by police tragedies. should we ban them too?

In a free society we must rely on the police.
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One of the most idoitic statements I have seen in a while. Completely devoid of human history and understanding of the words "free society"
and he teaches kids....everyday.....

I wonder if he would feel the same way with the first Amendment?
 
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These are rights, sir. Granted to us in our Constitution.
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Actually, the Bill of Rights does not grant us specific rights; it recognizes existing rights. The Founding Fathers understood that these rights were granted to us by God, not the state, and thus the state has no legitimate authority to restrict these rights. It really makes you see how far off course we are as a nation.:banghead:
 
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